Lemon law and RMS
08-20-2008, 11:01 PM
#1
Lemon law and RMS
My car is at the dealer for 2nd RMS. So far 5 to 6 weeks in shop over past 2 month! The car is older than 18 months and I am in VA. Does the lemon law apply?
Thanks,
Stephan
Thanks,
Stephan
08-20-2008, 11:44 PM
#2
Pretty sure the rule is 3 or more fixes or 30 calendar days in the shop, but I think 18 months is the cutoff. You should be able to find out what VA's lemon law time period is pretty easily via google.
08-21-2008, 12:51 AM
#4
Here's some information:
The General Assembly recognizes that a motor vehicle is a major consumer purchase, and there is no doubt that a defective motor vehicle creates a hardship for the consumer. It is the intent of the General Assembly that a good faith motor vehicle warranty complaint by a consumer should be resolved by the manufacturer, or its agent, within a specified period of time. It is further the intent of the General Assembly to provide the statutory procedures whereby a consumer may receive a replacement motor vehicle, or a full refund, for a motor vehicle which cannot be brought into conformity with the express warranty issued by the manufacturer. However, nothing in this chapter shall in any way limit the rights or remedies which are otherwise available to a consumer under any other law.
59.1-207.11 Definitions.
As used in this chapter, the following terms shall have the following meanings:
"Collateral charges" means any sales-related or lease-related charges including but not limited to sales tax, license fees, registration fees, title fees, finance charges and interest, transportation charges, dealer preparation charges or any other charges for service contracts, undercoating, rust proofing or installed options, not recoverable from a third party. If a refund involves a lease, "collateral charges" means, in addition to any of the above, capitalized cost reductions, credits and allowances for any trade-in vehicles, fees to another to obtain the lease, and insurance or other costs expended by the lessor for the benefit of the lessee.
"Comparable motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that is identical or reasonably equivalent to the motor vehicle to be replaced, as the motor vehicle to be replaced existed at the time of purchase or lease with an offset from this value for a reasonable allowance for its use.
"Consumer" means the purchaser, other than for purposes of resale, or the lessee, of a motor vehicle used in substantial part for personal, family, or household purposes, and any person to whom such motor vehicle is transferred for the same purposes during the duration of any warranty applicable to such motor vehicle, and any other person entitled by the terms of such warranty to enforce the obligations of the warranty.
"Incidental damages" shall have the same meaning as provided in 8.2-715.
"Lemon law rights period" means the period ending eighteen months after the date of the original delivery to the consumer of a new motor vehicle. This shall be the period during which the consumer can report any nonconformity to the manufacturer and pursue any rights provided for under this chapter.
"Lien" means a security interest in a motor vehicle.
"lien holder" means a person, partnership, association, corporation or entity with a security interest in a motor vehicle pursuant to a lien.
"Manufacturer" means a person, partnership, association, corporation or entity engaged in the business of manufacturing or assembling motor vehicles, or of distributing motor vehicles to motor vehicle dealers.
"Manufacturer's express warranty" means the written warranty, so labeled, of the manufacturer of a new automobile, including any terms or conditions precedent to the enforcement of obligations under that warranty.
"Motor vehicle" means only passenger cars, pickup or panel trucks, motorcycles, self-propelled motorized chassis of motor homes and mopeds as those terms are defined in 46.2-100 and demonstrators or leased vehicles with which a warranty was issued.
"Motor vehicle dealer" shall have the same meaning as provided in 46.2-1500.
"Nonconformity" means a failure to conform with a warranty, a defect or a condition, including those that do not affect the drivability of the vehicle, which significantly impairs the use, market value, or safety of a motor vehicle.
"Notify" or "notification" means that the manufacturer shall be deemed to have been notified under this chapter if a written complaint of the defect or defects has been mailed to it or it has responded to the consumer in writing regarding a complaint, or a factory representative has either inspected the vehicle or met with the consumer or an authorized dealer regarding the nonconformity.
"Reasonable allowance for use" shall not exceed one-half of the amount allowed per mile by the Internal Revenue Service, as provided by regulation, revenue procedure, or revenue ruling promulgated pursuant to 162 of the Internal Revenue Code, for use of a personal vehicle for business purposes, plus an amount to account for any loss to the fair market value of the vehicle resulting from damage beyond normal wear and tear, unless the damage resulted from nonconformity to any warranty.
"Serious safety defect" means a life-threatening malfunction or nonconformity that impedes the consumer's ability to control or operate the new motor vehicle for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes or creates a risk of fire or explosion.
"Significant impairment" means to render the new motor vehicle unfit, unreliable or unsafe for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes.
"Warranty" means any implied warranty or any written warranty of the manufacturer, or any affirmations of fact or promise made by the manufacturer in connection with the sale or lease of a motor vehicle that become part of the basis of the bargain. The term "warranty" pertains to the obligations of the manufacturer in relation to materials, workmanship, and fitness of a motor vehicle for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes throughout the duration of the lemon law rights period as defined under this section.
The General Assembly recognizes that a motor vehicle is a major consumer purchase, and there is no doubt that a defective motor vehicle creates a hardship for the consumer. It is the intent of the General Assembly that a good faith motor vehicle warranty complaint by a consumer should be resolved by the manufacturer, or its agent, within a specified period of time. It is further the intent of the General Assembly to provide the statutory procedures whereby a consumer may receive a replacement motor vehicle, or a full refund, for a motor vehicle which cannot be brought into conformity with the express warranty issued by the manufacturer. However, nothing in this chapter shall in any way limit the rights or remedies which are otherwise available to a consumer under any other law.
59.1-207.11 Definitions.
As used in this chapter, the following terms shall have the following meanings:
"Collateral charges" means any sales-related or lease-related charges including but not limited to sales tax, license fees, registration fees, title fees, finance charges and interest, transportation charges, dealer preparation charges or any other charges for service contracts, undercoating, rust proofing or installed options, not recoverable from a third party. If a refund involves a lease, "collateral charges" means, in addition to any of the above, capitalized cost reductions, credits and allowances for any trade-in vehicles, fees to another to obtain the lease, and insurance or other costs expended by the lessor for the benefit of the lessee.
"Comparable motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that is identical or reasonably equivalent to the motor vehicle to be replaced, as the motor vehicle to be replaced existed at the time of purchase or lease with an offset from this value for a reasonable allowance for its use.
"Consumer" means the purchaser, other than for purposes of resale, or the lessee, of a motor vehicle used in substantial part for personal, family, or household purposes, and any person to whom such motor vehicle is transferred for the same purposes during the duration of any warranty applicable to such motor vehicle, and any other person entitled by the terms of such warranty to enforce the obligations of the warranty.
"Incidental damages" shall have the same meaning as provided in 8.2-715.
"Lemon law rights period" means the period ending eighteen months after the date of the original delivery to the consumer of a new motor vehicle. This shall be the period during which the consumer can report any nonconformity to the manufacturer and pursue any rights provided for under this chapter.
"Lien" means a security interest in a motor vehicle.
"lien holder" means a person, partnership, association, corporation or entity with a security interest in a motor vehicle pursuant to a lien.
"Manufacturer" means a person, partnership, association, corporation or entity engaged in the business of manufacturing or assembling motor vehicles, or of distributing motor vehicles to motor vehicle dealers.
"Manufacturer's express warranty" means the written warranty, so labeled, of the manufacturer of a new automobile, including any terms or conditions precedent to the enforcement of obligations under that warranty.
"Motor vehicle" means only passenger cars, pickup or panel trucks, motorcycles, self-propelled motorized chassis of motor homes and mopeds as those terms are defined in 46.2-100 and demonstrators or leased vehicles with which a warranty was issued.
"Motor vehicle dealer" shall have the same meaning as provided in 46.2-1500.
"Nonconformity" means a failure to conform with a warranty, a defect or a condition, including those that do not affect the drivability of the vehicle, which significantly impairs the use, market value, or safety of a motor vehicle.
"Notify" or "notification" means that the manufacturer shall be deemed to have been notified under this chapter if a written complaint of the defect or defects has been mailed to it or it has responded to the consumer in writing regarding a complaint, or a factory representative has either inspected the vehicle or met with the consumer or an authorized dealer regarding the nonconformity.
"Reasonable allowance for use" shall not exceed one-half of the amount allowed per mile by the Internal Revenue Service, as provided by regulation, revenue procedure, or revenue ruling promulgated pursuant to 162 of the Internal Revenue Code, for use of a personal vehicle for business purposes, plus an amount to account for any loss to the fair market value of the vehicle resulting from damage beyond normal wear and tear, unless the damage resulted from nonconformity to any warranty.
"Serious safety defect" means a life-threatening malfunction or nonconformity that impedes the consumer's ability to control or operate the new motor vehicle for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes or creates a risk of fire or explosion.
"Significant impairment" means to render the new motor vehicle unfit, unreliable or unsafe for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes.
"Warranty" means any implied warranty or any written warranty of the manufacturer, or any affirmations of fact or promise made by the manufacturer in connection with the sale or lease of a motor vehicle that become part of the basis of the bargain. The term "warranty" pertains to the obligations of the manufacturer in relation to materials, workmanship, and fitness of a motor vehicle for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes throughout the duration of the lemon law rights period as defined under this section.
08-21-2008, 01:03 AM
#5
California Lemon Law info
When does a vehicle qualify under the California Lemon Law?
Generally, a vehicle qualifies under the California Lemon Law when the vehicle has a defect which the dealerships have been unable to repair. For the law to apply, the dealerships must be given a reasonable number of opportunities to repair the vehicle within the warranty period.
How many times do I need to take my car back to the dealer before I have a California Lemon Law claim?
The California Lemon Law states that the dealerships must be given a reasonable number of opportunities to repair a vehicle. The law does not require any specific number of repair visits. Typically, four visits for the same problem will qualify, but, depending on the defect, fewer visits may suffice. For example, a defect as severe as brake system failure may only require two visits. Moreover, if a vehicle spends a cumulative total of over 30 days in the shop for warranty repairs, it may satisfy the requirement no matter how many separate visits were made. Because the California Lemon Law does not set a specific number of visits, each matter should be assessed on a case-by-case basis.
Can I have a claim under the California Lemon Law if my repair visits did not occur within the vehicle’s first 18 months and 18,000 miles of use?
Yes, the California Lemon Law does not require that the repair visits occur within the first 18 months or 18,000 miles of use. If your repair visits occurred within the warranty period, you will be afforded the protections of the California Lemon Law. Largely due to the misrepresentations of the automobile manufacturers and car dealerships, there has been much confusion surrounding a provision of the CA Lemon Law called the Tanner Consumer Protection Act. As such, many consumers are left with the mistaken impression that they have no remedy under the California Lemon Law unless their repair visits occurred within the vehicle’s first 18 months or 18,000 miles of use. The truth is that you may have a very strong California Lemon Law claim even if your problems occurred well after 18 months and 18,000 miles.
What am I entitled to if my vehicle qualifies under the California Lemon Law?
If your vehicle qualifies under the California Lemon Law, you will be entitled to a refund of your down payment, monthly finance payments, and to have your vehicle loan paid off in full. You will also be entitled to reimbursement of incidental damages such as rental car expenses, repair costs, and towing expenses. If offered by the manufacturer, you may choose to have your vehicle replaced with a similar vehicle instead of having your money refunded. With either a repurchase or a replacement, the manufacturer will be entitled to a relatively small credit for the mileage driven on the vehicle before the vehicle was first taken in for repair of the defect.
When does a vehicle qualify under the California Lemon Law?
Generally, a vehicle qualifies under the California Lemon Law when the vehicle has a defect which the dealerships have been unable to repair. For the law to apply, the dealerships must be given a reasonable number of opportunities to repair the vehicle within the warranty period.
How many times do I need to take my car back to the dealer before I have a California Lemon Law claim?
The California Lemon Law states that the dealerships must be given a reasonable number of opportunities to repair a vehicle. The law does not require any specific number of repair visits. Typically, four visits for the same problem will qualify, but, depending on the defect, fewer visits may suffice. For example, a defect as severe as brake system failure may only require two visits. Moreover, if a vehicle spends a cumulative total of over 30 days in the shop for warranty repairs, it may satisfy the requirement no matter how many separate visits were made. Because the California Lemon Law does not set a specific number of visits, each matter should be assessed on a case-by-case basis.
Can I have a claim under the California Lemon Law if my repair visits did not occur within the vehicle’s first 18 months and 18,000 miles of use?
Yes, the California Lemon Law does not require that the repair visits occur within the first 18 months or 18,000 miles of use. If your repair visits occurred within the warranty period, you will be afforded the protections of the California Lemon Law. Largely due to the misrepresentations of the automobile manufacturers and car dealerships, there has been much confusion surrounding a provision of the CA Lemon Law called the Tanner Consumer Protection Act. As such, many consumers are left with the mistaken impression that they have no remedy under the California Lemon Law unless their repair visits occurred within the vehicle’s first 18 months or 18,000 miles of use. The truth is that you may have a very strong California Lemon Law claim even if your problems occurred well after 18 months and 18,000 miles.
What am I entitled to if my vehicle qualifies under the California Lemon Law?
If your vehicle qualifies under the California Lemon Law, you will be entitled to a refund of your down payment, monthly finance payments, and to have your vehicle loan paid off in full. You will also be entitled to reimbursement of incidental damages such as rental car expenses, repair costs, and towing expenses. If offered by the manufacturer, you may choose to have your vehicle replaced with a similar vehicle instead of having your money refunded. With either a repurchase or a replacement, the manufacturer will be entitled to a relatively small credit for the mileage driven on the vehicle before the vehicle was first taken in for repair of the defect.
08-21-2008, 10:12 AM
#6
RMS
Hey Stephan,
Have your dealer use the updated seal procedure for an "early" 997 GT3. Even if the seal does leak, it's just a couple of drops when the car cools off or is not driven in a while. Sell your car when the warranty is up and you're all set.
You need to go to NJMP - lot's of fun.
See ya
Jonathon
Have your dealer use the updated seal procedure for an "early" 997 GT3. Even if the seal does leak, it's just a couple of drops when the car cools off or is not driven in a while. Sell your car when the warranty is up and you're all set.
You need to go to NJMP - lot's of fun.
See ya
Jonathon
08-21-2008, 10:18 AM
#7
RMS Leaks
Good response by Bruce Anderson in current Excellence issue, page 22. Bottom line: he considers it normal to see some seepage due to the design of the seal.
