h-bo

Samuel,

Good to hear from you. I have not had the chance to drive one yet unfortunately. I imagine it is somewhere in between 993 and 997... but closer to the 997.

how is your car doing? planning in track time in the coming months?

Wilder

Thanks again for your input.

See what you started? https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/448615-993-race-car-or-gt3.html

cgomez

Absolutely agree! I still don't why people convert new 997 GT3s into full track cars (making them almost non-streetable) and trailer them to the track instead of just going straight into a Cup (Few of them realize it and end up buying a Cup car afterwards).

That's why I "converted" my GT2 into a formidable daily driver. Why not have ALL the fun ALL the time and still drive to the track and have a blast?

Carrera Mike

friend's GT2

NoSubEDU

I wanted to chime in on this post. I own a 997.1 GT3 and a 993 C2S that I have prepared for the track.

I find the opposite true for my driving style than h-bo....

I find the GT3 a great street car. It's fast, it's raw, the brakes are out of this world (PCCB). The car is a real driving machine. I like the fact that one of my cars actually has a warranty. And as luck would have it, the GT3 is the only car I've ever had a problem with that needs work. (RMS leak)

My issue with the GT3 is the PASM suspension. I can't stand it on the track. I love it for the street. It offers great confidence and road feel as long as you are driving the car at less than, let's say, 7 or 8/10ths. That's when the suspension starts to make me very nervous.

The normal mode is very smooth regardless of asphalt. The Sport mode is best used on new and near-perfect asphalt. Regardless of which mode, the ability to drive the car fast and smooth is the same. You get a bit more precision with the sport mode.

I find the GT3 very scary on the track or when you are pushing the car near 8 to 9/10th's. My concern is that I am fighting the PASM. The suspension will adjust the damping on the car depending on what the computer sees. If it feels the car is losing traction or skipping it will soften the damping to regain grip. The opposite is true as well, continuously sharpening and increasing damping when it can, especially after softening the damping. I can actually feel the suspension changing from hard-soft-hard in turns and I find myself fighting the suspension. As it goes from hard->soft, the car softens and gets grip. I now have to adjust my steering and throttle inputs to take care of the changing grip condition. As soon as I adjust I feel the car's suspension go hard again and the grip/chassis dynamics change once again. It is very difficult to drive near the limit and smoothly since the suspension is not predictable and not linear throughout the turn.

One other note - because of this behavior its difficult to tell where the grip levels are with the tires.

Here again I am the opposite. Some disclosure: my 993 C2S has been prepared for the track. The engine, tranny, brakes, are all stock. I have upgraded the aero with a GT2 wing and some front aero tweaks. The major changes are all suspension. I have a Moton Clubsport setup with HR springs, RS uprights, RS tierods, all the various toe and control arm links, no rubber, etc. I have also removed the factory seats in lieu of racing seats and harnesses, added a DAS rollbar, removed AC condensor and lines, etc.

My 993 is the most rewarding driving experience I get. And it is street legal. The car creates tremendous confidence on the track. My steering is near telepathic and offers feedback rivaling even the GT3's steering (which may be almost too light considering the light-weight wheels and PCCBs). The suspension is very predictable and communicates well. The chassis is extremely tight. There is a touch of roll or twist in the car on long sweepers but I can't tell which is which. I run pretty soft springs for the track so I'm leaning towards that. (Car has a strut brace)

I am much faster around the track in my 993. The car has 282HP. I typically run lap times that are on-par with 400-500HP street and race cars. The brakes are the best I've ever sampled. They are stock Carrera brakes. They are not Big Reds. I've been told the most astounding characteristics about my car is how well it sticks in corners and how absurd the braking points are.

Purely speaking about confidence, I have much more in the 993. I can't seem to hold a candle to the lap times that my 993 put down. It all goes back to confidence.

Now having said all of that, the one thing that could fix the GT3's issue (for me) is the one thing that is responsible for my enjoyment and performance in the 993 -> the suspension. But, I bought the GT3 as my DD. I would love to have the confidence that a simple coil overs system could provide but I would have to relinquish my factory warranty - one I am not prepared to do on a very expensive car, especially one that has already seen warranty work.

Alas, h-bo and I agree! The GT3 or GT3RS (and GT2 for that matter) would be the ideal car for both street and track. The GT3 can be quite supple for the street and still offer uber track performance. It's just a matter of what you expect from the car. I don't like getting on track and driving anything less than 8 or 9/10ths. That's just me and what I aim to get when I drive out of the pits. You will be giving up the 8 or 9/10ths capability by going with a GT3 for the street and track but really offers you true dual purpose. It also offers track like performance on the street, pure track performance on the track, yet still takes the edge off the sharpness for the street (a big plus).

Nautilus

Hi there:

My name is Ignacio, from Barcelona. I normally visit the 993 and the 993tt forums although I don't contribute that much (pretty much everything I need to know is already available in older posts). Greetings to all of you first of all.

I found this very interesting thread (with great pictures by the way) while searching for posts discussing the differences between the 993 and the 997 chassis. I have read with great interest all the contributions because they touch on a subject I've been wondering for some time now. The issue is that I would like to know what makes the 997 chassis so much better than the 993 one.
The 7 has a much stiffer chassis and a “more modern” suspension but I wonder what makes it so much faster than a 3.

This thread is particularly relevant to the subject because h-bo (what a stable you have! Enjoy it in good health) was comparing a 993 GT2 and a 997 GT2 so I was expecting the 3 to be closer to the 7 as far as the chassis goes (not performance because the power difference) because I thought that the race version of the old car would have a much stiffer chassis (not sure if it has the welded cage... I don't see it in the pics) than the standard carrera (like mine) but according to h-bo comments this does not seem to be the case.

What do you think? Would it be possible to upgrade the 993 chassis (GT2 or standard Carrera) with a welded cage, modern spring and dampers etc. and bring it to the same level of a 997?

The comments from NoSubEDU would suggest that it is possible but I am not sure if by now you have already tested a GT3 with no PASM in order to compare apples with apples so to speak.

Thanks in advance for all your input.

Best regards.

P.S. Regarding my personal experience, I have only been able to drive a 996 Carrera apart from my own car. It felt very comfortable and refined compared to my car but not faster (although I am sure it is). I have to admit I am a great 993 fan and would not switch it for anything else...