Car And Driver lap times for GT2
06-29-2008, 05:04 AM
#3
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WOW. Definitely a beast. Sure it has power, brakes, adjustable suspension, but what I think puts it over the edge is the aero package. Significant positive downforce adds significant grip. It's always kinda funny to me that often they try their best to make supercars without wings for looks when wings are quite functional. Anyway, I think the GT3/2 could do better aerodynamically. It wasn't until the 996 RS and 997 that we even got positive downforce at all, was it? I think the 996 GT3 has only zero lift. Anyway, for a track car it seems like there should be an option to check off for cup car aerodynamics. The cup front lip is bigger, but still rubber/plastic so scraps don't destroy it and the rear wing is probably smaller than the one on the ACR. You could also add cup S canards up front and have a still COMPLETELY streetable (although badass looking) car that would to much better at the track...
06-29-2008, 02:06 PM
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06-29-2008, 04:35 PM
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all magazine articles like this are meaningless unless you have the proper driver for each car. even ring lap times are getting unreliable because you can just have a high top speed even if the proper driver is doing the test lap. The ACR is supposed to come with sport cups so they are on equal tires to the gt2 and I'm impressed for sure.
Motor Trend also did a test on the same looking car and described theirs briefly.
"Our tester had been tweaked for the fast, sweeping big track at Willow Springs-the ride height had been dropped 28 mm (the shocks can be tweaked without removing the wheels) and the four-inch-deep removable center for the front splitter (so the car passes standard bumper offset laws and doesn't headbutt every bump in the road) fitted to improve front-end downforce by a third."
It's not like Walter Rohl was there with his engineers behind the pit wall to make the gt2 shine and we all know rear engine is not the absolute easiest thing to drive at the limit. Look at Danica Patrick's review of the GT3RS because she hasn't a clue what shes doing in a rear engine car.
Motor Trend also did a test on the same looking car and described theirs briefly.
"Our tester had been tweaked for the fast, sweeping big track at Willow Springs-the ride height had been dropped 28 mm (the shocks can be tweaked without removing the wheels) and the four-inch-deep removable center for the front splitter (so the car passes standard bumper offset laws and doesn't headbutt every bump in the road) fitted to improve front-end downforce by a third."
It's not like Walter Rohl was there with his engineers behind the pit wall to make the gt2 shine and we all know rear engine is not the absolute easiest thing to drive at the limit. Look at Danica Patrick's review of the GT3RS because she hasn't a clue what shes doing in a rear engine car.
06-29-2008, 05:49 PM
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Just curious. Anyone here have a Viper ACR on order? Heres Motor Trend's impressions on this car.
Everything about the ACR leaves you breathless: the ultra-quick steering, the crushing acceleration, the suspension’s piano-string tautness, cornering transitions that make you feel like you’ve fallen into a pinball machine. The Corvette Z06, for all of its virtues, cannot duplicate the ACR’s electrifying race-car moves (we’ll see if the new ZR1 can defend its little brother’s honor). Nissan GT-R? Forget it: The Viper ACR will leave its solenoids and software bugged out by rubber dust. Porsche GT-2? Getting warmer, but Porsche’s masterpiece (at twice the Dodge’s $98,110 price) plays by Marquis of Queensberry rules. The ACR is strictly UFC. Dare to get in the ring with it, dude, and you’re going to get pummeled.
I haven’t driven another car in recent memory that’s felt so utterly brutal yet so unfailingly honest. You want speed? The ACR delivers it like French roast coffee administered via syringe. True, with its adjustable KW shocks and tunable aero bits, the ACR really is a ringer, a thinly disguised race car. But, hey, the DOT says it can play in the street with everything else, so fair is fair.
I’m keeping a record of my Viper ACR drive in my personal journal. It’ll be under the heading, "Cars I Love That Make Me Feel Like Five Minutes Ago I Said Something Stupid To Mike Tyson."
the link.
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6255970/...acr/index.html
Everything about the ACR leaves you breathless: the ultra-quick steering, the crushing acceleration, the suspension’s piano-string tautness, cornering transitions that make you feel like you’ve fallen into a pinball machine. The Corvette Z06, for all of its virtues, cannot duplicate the ACR’s electrifying race-car moves (we’ll see if the new ZR1 can defend its little brother’s honor). Nissan GT-R? Forget it: The Viper ACR will leave its solenoids and software bugged out by rubber dust. Porsche GT-2? Getting warmer, but Porsche’s masterpiece (at twice the Dodge’s $98,110 price) plays by Marquis of Queensberry rules. The ACR is strictly UFC. Dare to get in the ring with it, dude, and you’re going to get pummeled.
I haven’t driven another car in recent memory that’s felt so utterly brutal yet so unfailingly honest. You want speed? The ACR delivers it like French roast coffee administered via syringe. True, with its adjustable KW shocks and tunable aero bits, the ACR really is a ringer, a thinly disguised race car. But, hey, the DOT says it can play in the street with everything else, so fair is fair.
I’m keeping a record of my Viper ACR drive in my personal journal. It’ll be under the heading, "Cars I Love That Make Me Feel Like Five Minutes Ago I Said Something Stupid To Mike Tyson."
the link.
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6255970/...acr/index.html
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06-30-2008, 02:13 AM
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Maybe it was a ringer, maybe it was tuned on track, but the Viper is faster than the GT2. Why?
Brakes even
power to weight even
aero viper
suspension viper
The aero is better on the viper because they don't care about it looking like a race car and the suspension is better because it's an adjustable racing suspension, not spasm which tries to strike a balance. What the GT2 does is great, I'm sure it's infinitely more refined and livable, but you should be able to get a no pasm, a race suspension option, and true race aero.
Brakes even
power to weight even
aero viper
suspension viper
The aero is better on the viper because they don't care about it looking like a race car and the suspension is better because it's an adjustable racing suspension, not spasm which tries to strike a balance. What the GT2 does is great, I'm sure it's infinitely more refined and livable, but you should be able to get a no pasm, a race suspension option, and true race aero.
06-30-2008, 05:15 AM
#9
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Did anyone read the last comments on the GT2?
"Three days int eh GT2 brought forth gushing praise. Not for the GT2 but for the 415-hp GT3 RS. Besides being more than $65,000 less, the equally stiff GT3 is remembered as a more entertaining harmony of power and rear-engine eccentircity. At times, taming the the GT2 feels suspiciously like work."
And it has turbo lag, just like I experienced in the 997 turbo that I drove earlier this year. That is totally unacceptable in my book.
I think I will continue to lose weight in my GT3 and in the future do the Sharkwerks 3.8 or 3.9 conversion if they decide to do something like that (a 3.9 that is). With a 3.9 and race gas it should approach 500 hp and my GT3 will be approaching 2,800 lbs if I keep up my current diet. That will make a power to weight ratio better than that of the GT2 if the 500 hp can be achieved. Of course you can always add power and strip weight from the GT2 also. But the turbo lag will probably only get worse, and I really can't stand non-linear power delivery.
"Three days int eh GT2 brought forth gushing praise. Not for the GT2 but for the 415-hp GT3 RS. Besides being more than $65,000 less, the equally stiff GT3 is remembered as a more entertaining harmony of power and rear-engine eccentircity. At times, taming the the GT2 feels suspiciously like work."
And it has turbo lag, just like I experienced in the 997 turbo that I drove earlier this year. That is totally unacceptable in my book.
I think I will continue to lose weight in my GT3 and in the future do the Sharkwerks 3.8 or 3.9 conversion if they decide to do something like that (a 3.9 that is). With a 3.9 and race gas it should approach 500 hp and my GT3 will be approaching 2,800 lbs if I keep up my current diet. That will make a power to weight ratio better than that of the GT2 if the 500 hp can be achieved. Of course you can always add power and strip weight from the GT2 also. But the turbo lag will probably only get worse, and I really can't stand non-linear power delivery.
06-30-2008, 12:24 PM
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Here is an article from Road and Track:
997S vs 997 GT3 RS vs Gallardo Spyder vs Gallardo SuperLeggera vs Viper vs Viper ACR
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6461
At the end of the day: The ACR beats the second fastest car by almost 3 seconds at Willow Springs. The time: 1:29.33
"At 150 mph, the ACR experiences about 1200 lb. of downforce, distributed approximately 45 percent to the front and 55 percent to the rear."...
997S vs 997 GT3 RS vs Gallardo Spyder vs Gallardo SuperLeggera vs Viper vs Viper ACR
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6461
At the end of the day: The ACR beats the second fastest car by almost 3 seconds at Willow Springs. The time: 1:29.33
"At 150 mph, the ACR experiences about 1200 lb. of downforce, distributed approximately 45 percent to the front and 55 percent to the rear."...
06-30-2008, 01:04 PM
#11
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The Viper is awesome. I watched Chris Winkler put on a driving exhibition on the 2008 OLOA. His time on the VIR full course was a 3 lap 6.10.999 from a standing start on Michelin PS2 STREET TIRES. Mark Davia in his 996 TT which is one of the best setup TT in the US was a 3 lap 6.24.506. Davia had a faster straight line car as we watched him pull & pass the Viper out of the Oak Tree when we ran the South course.
Peter
Peter
06-30-2008, 02:03 PM
#12
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Did anyone read the last comments on the GT2?
"Three days int eh GT2 brought forth gushing praise. Not for the GT2 but for the 415-hp GT3 RS. Besides being more than $65,000 less, the equally stiff GT3 is remembered as a more entertaining harmony of power and rear-engine eccentircity. At times, taming the the GT2 feels suspiciously like work."
And it has turbo lag, just like I experienced in the 997 turbo that I drove earlier this year. That is totally unacceptable in my book.
I think I will continue to lose weight in my GT3 and in the future do the Sharkwerks 3.8 or 3.9 conversion if they decide to do something like that (a 3.9 that is). With a 3.9 and race gas it should approach 500 hp and my GT3 will be approaching 2,800 lbs if I keep up my current diet. That will make a power to weight ratio better than that of the GT2 if the 500 hp can be achieved. Of course you can always add power and strip weight from the GT2 also. But the turbo lag will probably only get worse, and I really can't stand non-linear power delivery.
"Three days int eh GT2 brought forth gushing praise. Not for the GT2 but for the 415-hp GT3 RS. Besides being more than $65,000 less, the equally stiff GT3 is remembered as a more entertaining harmony of power and rear-engine eccentircity. At times, taming the the GT2 feels suspiciously like work."
And it has turbo lag, just like I experienced in the 997 turbo that I drove earlier this year. That is totally unacceptable in my book.
I think I will continue to lose weight in my GT3 and in the future do the Sharkwerks 3.8 or 3.9 conversion if they decide to do something like that (a 3.9 that is). With a 3.9 and race gas it should approach 500 hp and my GT3 will be approaching 2,800 lbs if I keep up my current diet. That will make a power to weight ratio better than that of the GT2 if the 500 hp can be achieved. Of course you can always add power and strip weight from the GT2 also. But the turbo lag will probably only get worse, and I really can't stand non-linear power delivery.
Also VERY interested to read the testers comments and connection with the ACR. Haven't driven the new one, so I cannot comment on it, but the old one was a pile (my opinion), so awful I came back into the pits for gas at T-hill and had no interest in going back out in it. Then again, a single generation can make a HUGE difference...
Finally, about the new GT2: while it IS a turbo and it does have lag, I find its lag to be much less annoying than the 997TT's...
So don't write the 2 off just yet. It's not an NA car, and maybe it's not as "good" (do you mean fun? fast? entertaining? challenging?) on track as the ACR, but I suspect it's a whole lot better as a "car."
And, if track is all that matters, there are better cars to drive than either of these...
Cheers!
pete
pete
06-30-2008, 06:49 PM
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Also VERY interested to read the testers comments and connection with the ACR. Haven't driven the new one, so I cannot comment on it, but the old one was a pile (my opinion), so awful I came back into the pits for gas at T-hill and had no interest in going back out in it. Then again, a single generation can make a HUGE difference...
pete
