PCCB vs Steel Rotors @ VIR
02-18-2008, 02:56 PM
#1
PCCB vs Steel Rotors @ VIR
Hi all, I wanted to share some feedback on PCCB vs Steel Rotors for track use.
Over the winter I decided to replace my stock PCCB rotors w/P40 pads with AP Steel Slotted Discs up front and the drilled OEM rotors in the rear with Pagid Yellow RS-19's pads. The PCCB's are great on the street but they never felt as stout as I thought they should at the track. Aside from the cost issue - replacement PCCB rotors are insanely expensive, I was going through a set of P40 pads in 2.5 track days. In Porsche's defense, the P40's are a street pad and were not intended for heavy track use but there are a lot of stories of the P50 Motorsport pads chewing up PCCB rotors very quickly.
The weight difference is significant and I was concerned that it would affect how the car felt and behaved at the track. The improvement in braking was significant with the AP Steel/Pagid RS-19 setup. The Traqmate data showed an improvement of peak braking G's from 1.21G with the PCCB/P40 set up to 1.47G with the AP/Pagid setup.
Same car, same suspension set up, same tires, R888's- just older (27 heat cycles), and very similar weather conditions (mid 50's and overcast). I could not tell any difference in how the car felt around the track aside from improved braking.
Subjectively the AP/Pagid setup felt a lot better - initial bite was much improved and in general more confidence inspiring. I was able to extend my braking points at the end of both straights at VIR.
This is not to take any shots at PCCB's - very cool technology and the weight savings is significant - just wanted share some data with those who are considering swapping out their PCCB's for Steels for track use.
Over the winter I decided to replace my stock PCCB rotors w/P40 pads with AP Steel Slotted Discs up front and the drilled OEM rotors in the rear with Pagid Yellow RS-19's pads. The PCCB's are great on the street but they never felt as stout as I thought they should at the track. Aside from the cost issue - replacement PCCB rotors are insanely expensive, I was going through a set of P40 pads in 2.5 track days. In Porsche's defense, the P40's are a street pad and were not intended for heavy track use but there are a lot of stories of the P50 Motorsport pads chewing up PCCB rotors very quickly.
The weight difference is significant and I was concerned that it would affect how the car felt and behaved at the track. The improvement in braking was significant with the AP Steel/Pagid RS-19 setup. The Traqmate data showed an improvement of peak braking G's from 1.21G with the PCCB/P40 set up to 1.47G with the AP/Pagid setup.
Same car, same suspension set up, same tires, R888's- just older (27 heat cycles), and very similar weather conditions (mid 50's and overcast). I could not tell any difference in how the car felt around the track aside from improved braking.
Subjectively the AP/Pagid setup felt a lot better - initial bite was much improved and in general more confidence inspiring. I was able to extend my braking points at the end of both straights at VIR.
This is not to take any shots at PCCB's - very cool technology and the weight savings is significant - just wanted share some data with those who are considering swapping out their PCCB's for Steels for track use.
02-18-2008, 03:15 PM
#2
That echoes my experience as well. I'm running the AP Racing slotted rotors in the front, drilled GT3 Cup rotors in the rear, using the stock (i.e. yellow) calipers and RS-19 pads. I think this setup works better. Initial bite is MUCH stronger than with the PCCBs, overall stopping power is better, and I experienced no fade at all. Brakes were still easy to modulate. To me it all comes down to lap times, and my lap times with the iron brakes were better than with PCCBs, I think primarily because I could go deeper into the braking zone in most cases.
02-18-2008, 03:42 PM
#3
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I run RS29's on my PCCB's and am forever feeling amazed at how well they perform, the initial bite is awesome, and fantastic pedal feel all the way.
In contrast, i took a friends RS out after jumping out of my own to try his set up, and had a few scary moments as he had the standard pads on his PCCB's, which had noticably less bite and feel by comparison.
Did you try any other pads on your PCCB's ??
In contrast, i took a friends RS out after jumping out of my own to try his set up, and had a few scary moments as he had the standard pads on his PCCB's, which had noticably less bite and feel by comparison.
Did you try any other pads on your PCCB's ??
02-18-2008, 03:50 PM
#4
Cobrien - I saw the same thing - best lap time came down by about 1sec running the AP/Pagid setup.
GlennMC - thanks for the feedback on the RS-29's. I only tried the P40's - was afraid of more aggressive pads chewing up the PCCB rotors. At approx $16K or higher for new rotors - they become a pretty expensive wear item so I figured I would put on steels and avoid any potential replacement issues.
GlennMC - thanks for the feedback on the RS-29's. I only tried the P40's - was afraid of more aggressive pads chewing up the PCCB rotors. At approx $16K or higher for new rotors - they become a pretty expensive wear item so I figured I would put on steels and avoid any potential replacement issues.
02-18-2008, 03:51 PM
#5
AP Racing Rotors
I'm curious where I can buy AP Racing Rotors for my 997 GT3? My car has steel brakes/rotors. I think that my rotor size is slightly smaller than what comes with the Ceramic System.
02-18-2008, 03:53 PM
#6
You can pick them up at CDOC. The OEM Steel rotors are 350mm (PCCB's are 380mm). I think they said the AP 2-piece rotor is about 6lbs lighter than the OEM steel rotor for the front.
02-18-2008, 03:58 PM
#7
I run RS29's on my PCCB's and am forever feeling amazed at how well they perform, the initial bite is awesome, and fantastic pedal feel all the way.
In contrast, i took a friends RS out after jumping out of my own to try his set up, and had a few scary moments as he had the standard pads on his PCCB's, which had noticably less bite and feel by comparison.
Did you try any other pads on your PCCB's ??
In contrast, i took a friends RS out after jumping out of my own to try his set up, and had a few scary moments as he had the standard pads on his PCCB's, which had noticably less bite and feel by comparison.
Did you try any other pads on your PCCB's ??
Are your rotors showing any signs of wear?
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02-18-2008, 04:05 PM
#8
6 lbs lighter is what I was told as well. I'm not sure if AP makes a 350mm, 2-piece slotted rotor or not, but I assume they do. If CDOC can't help you out, I actually get all my parts through my Porsche dealer (who is very active/supportive of their track/race customers). It's Napleton Porsche outside of Chicago, 630-725-0911, ask for Joe Buonsante.
02-18-2008, 04:08 PM
#9
Hi all, I wanted to share some feedback on PCCB vs Steel Rotors for track use.
Over the winter I decided to replace my stock PCCB rotors w/P40 pads with AP Steel Slotted Discs up front and the drilled OEM rotors in the rear with Pagid Yellow RS-19's pads. The PCCB's are great on the street but they never felt as stout as I thought they should at the track. Aside from the cost issue - replacement PCCB rotors are insanely expensive, I was going through a set of P40 pads in 2.5 track days. In Porsche's defense, the P40's are a street pad and were not intended for heavy track use but there are a lot of stories of the P50 Motorsport pads chewing up PCCB rotors very quickly.
The weight difference is significant and I was concerned that it would affect how the car felt and behaved at the track. The improvement in braking was significant with the AP Steel/Pagid RS-19 setup. The Traqmate data showed an improvement of peak braking G's from 1.21G with the PCCB/P40 set up to 1.47G with the AP/Pagid setup.
Same car, same suspension set up, same tires, R888's- just older (27 heat cycles), and very similar weather conditions (mid 50's and overcast). I could not tell any difference in how the car felt around the track aside from improved braking.
Subjectively the AP/Pagid setup felt a lot better - initial bite was much improved and in general more confidence inspiring. I was able to extend my braking points at the end of both straights at VIR.
This is not to take any shots at PCCB's - very cool technology and the weight savings is significant - just wanted share some data with those who are considering swapping out their PCCB's for Steels for track use.
Over the winter I decided to replace my stock PCCB rotors w/P40 pads with AP Steel Slotted Discs up front and the drilled OEM rotors in the rear with Pagid Yellow RS-19's pads. The PCCB's are great on the street but they never felt as stout as I thought they should at the track. Aside from the cost issue - replacement PCCB rotors are insanely expensive, I was going through a set of P40 pads in 2.5 track days. In Porsche's defense, the P40's are a street pad and were not intended for heavy track use but there are a lot of stories of the P50 Motorsport pads chewing up PCCB rotors very quickly.
The weight difference is significant and I was concerned that it would affect how the car felt and behaved at the track. The improvement in braking was significant with the AP Steel/Pagid RS-19 setup. The Traqmate data showed an improvement of peak braking G's from 1.21G with the PCCB/P40 set up to 1.47G with the AP/Pagid setup.
Same car, same suspension set up, same tires, R888's- just older (27 heat cycles), and very similar weather conditions (mid 50's and overcast). I could not tell any difference in how the car felt around the track aside from improved braking.
Subjectively the AP/Pagid setup felt a lot better - initial bite was much improved and in general more confidence inspiring. I was able to extend my braking points at the end of both straights at VIR.
This is not to take any shots at PCCB's - very cool technology and the weight savings is significant - just wanted share some data with those who are considering swapping out their PCCB's for Steels for track use.
02-18-2008, 04:14 PM
#10
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I didn't try any other pads, but I agree completely it's a pad issue with the stock PCCBs. With a better pad I see no reason why they wouldn't work as well (or probably better than) the AP Racing setup I have now. But I had the same thought as Doug23, which was that I didn't want to experiment with more aggressive pads on $15K worth of rotors. In addition, what started me down this path was that my rotors were starting to show signs of wear after around 1500 track miles. So I was already looking for a different solution at that point anyhow, and never spent time looking at alternative pads for the PCCBs.
Are your rotors showing any signs of wear?
Are your rotors showing any signs of wear?
G.
02-18-2008, 04:16 PM
#11
I also heard that Performance Friction will be coming out with the PFC-06 pad that will fit the PCCB calipers. The guys I know running them down here absolutely rave about them.
02-18-2008, 04:44 PM
#14
Definitely good news. Never tried PFC 06's, but I use PFC 01s and 03s on my Z06 and they're phenominal.
