Yargk

Oops, I meant Cayman S. My point is that they are comparable in price, yet the more comfortable and useful car is faster. Sure, the lack of weight is mostly for the involvement and go-cart feel, but to me, practically, it should translate into speed as well.

For those who wonder why, I think one of the reasons why it's slower is that power to weight ratios don't tell the whole story at speed because drag is an issue. Cars with equal power to weight only accelerate equally at 0 mph. As the speed increases the more powerful car will pull ahead because a smaller fraction of the power is used to overcome drag. So 220 hp is not enough for the 300 hp Cayman. The lotuses always have fast in corner speeds as well, but I wonder if there is somewhere else where it's leaving time on the table for the Cayman (S). Maybe transitions? I wouldn't think under braking. I'd have to see data.

I wish the Exige S was more differentiated from the Elise. I'd like the same 2077 weight with 8.5 and 10 inch wheels with 235s and 265s along with 280-300 hp. Then we'd have a car.

YellowDragon

How about this one:



Pic taken at L.A. Auto Show.

Spec according to pamphlet:

0-60 mph: 3.8 sec.
0-100 mph: 8.9 sec.
Max Speed: 150 mph
Max Power: 252bhp @ 8000 rpm
Max Torque: 179 lb/ft @ 7000rpm
Combined Fuel Consumption: 30.4 mpg
Unladen Mass: 1598 lbs

And it comes also in green, yellow and orange!

Unfortunately, I think it's for track only and not street legal.

JohnnyBahamas

This is a great thread gentlemen. I have been trying to figure out the answer to these questions... thanks again to Rennlist!

Ever since I heard Alois Ruf make the statement in the Ruf videos about how lightness makes the driver's car, and can not be created with more horsepower in a heavier car, I have been studying the Lotus. I live at altitude as well so forced induction has a great attraction. Going to try to get a test drive in a Loti when visiting Scottsdale next week. Issues to overcome are that the 911 has possessed my soul since childhood and my dear wife hates the look of the Lotus... calls it the ugliest car she's ever seen. (Wife's opinion is relevant because crossing her will cost me something to reset the happiness balance.)

A reflashed, used '07 Exige S (optioned with "diamond package" for the wife) is sounding VERY interesting.

But again to the heavier car with more power news... reaction from the P-car insiders that have driven the 2009 DFI motored Cayman/S is reported to be overwhelming awe at the exponential improvement to an already great drive. In fact, the rumor goes, that the reason for the current production decreases in 997 and 987 versions is that PCNA is terrified that once the 2009 is released all 2005-2008 non-DFI inventory will go unsold at a profit. Sooo, again... what to do? Want to wait for a good deal on the best possible car yet gotta drive something first thing this spring. Hmmmmmm.

LA964RS

I love the Exige, but when you put its price point against a used 996GT3...you kind of say..mmmmm I could have a GT3.....

mooty

yes, pwr to wt only works at lower speed. that's why i keep saying at 110 or less, my GT's can't overtake exige 255.

on faster tracks, my guess is cay s will be faster due to tq and upper end.
on slower track, exige wins due to tossibility.
also, cay s is easier to drive in that if you f up a turn, you just hammer the throttle and you will get back to speed. if you do same to exige/elise, you will not get back your momentum until 2 turns later (think miata). so if you overslow in turns, you will be REALLY slow in a lotus. in most turns, a lotus should be right on the bumper of ANY porsches. (assuming you entered at same speed, you will not run out of grip before p cars)

mooty

i dont believe in specs.
everyone measures differently.
some think i am 5'9" some think i am 6'1, some think i am 4' tall.
drive it and decide.

340Elise

I thought the test in one of the auto rags was the Cayman S against the 2006 Exige? That is how I remember it. The cars were very, very close, but the Cayman S just barely edged out the Exige. And since it was a 2006, it was an NA Exige with 190 HP. I owned both the Cayman S and Exige S back to back (I traded the Cayman S for the Exige S) and I found the Exige to be faster everywhere except top speed. It does not have the HP for the top speed, and it also has terrible aero dynamics.

As for comparing the two. I would definetely, without thinking twice, take the Exige S over the Cayman S; the same is true for the 997 C2, C2S, and even the turbo. When I had my Cayman S and the Elise with the turbo at the same time (this was for about 6 months), I picked the Elise to drive over the Cayman S 19 out of 20 times. Didn't matter if I was going to work or to a friend's house or for a spirited drive in the mountains. There is absolutely no comparison in my book. The Cayman S is a great car, but is a heavy, floaty, sponge compared to the Exige.

I now have the GT3 and love it, but I am thinking about going back to an Exige S; this time a 240 version which I will bump up to a solid 270 hp, and reduce the weight down to about 1950 lbs.

I will admit that part of my reason is the cost of the GT3. I can currently buy a brand new 240 Exige S which stickers for a little over $69K (with a few options) for about $60K (this is because of a $4K loyalty incentive which expires at the end of February, and the rest is easy to get off). This is just about half of what I paid for my GT3!

Ideally I would like them both, but I just can't afford that right now. So if I like the Exige S so much that I might like it a little more than the GT3, then I should jump on it. Even if I like it almost as much, a $50K savings is not too shabby in my book.

The other option is to pick up a low mile 2007 for under $50K without breaking a sweat. Now the savings is really good.

We will see what tomorrow brings.

340Elise

Yes, but a 996 variant. Sorry, that one would be no contest for me; 2008 240 Exige S all the way! And with a 3 year warranty.

You can also get a Ferrari for less than a new Exige S, but it will not be one of the desirable ones.

btw, I'm not bashing the 996 GT3, it is a great car and should not be compared to a Ferrari Mondial. But to me, the 997's are significantly better than the 996's, and I have owned even of both to allow for an opinion.

340Elise

If you mean that you need the supercharged Exige or Elise because the NA version is just way to slow at altitude, then I agree. But a supercharged car is affected by altitude the same as an NA car and you will still lose the approx 3% hp per 1,000 ft.

For a turbo car you do not have this loss, but it is still affected by the altitude also. I am not sure if it is a slower overall reaction and building of max boost which then eventually gives you the same max hp as sea level; or if it affects the overall hp of the car. I have heard that on a turbo car is might be closer to 1 or 1.5% per 1,000 ft, but I really am not sure about this.

Any FI experts out there who can chime in?

Terry L

I feel like I'm back on Elisetalk, but has anyone tried either the Sector 111 Katana supercharger or its competitor (which may be the same thing) from BWR?

Yargk

You're right 340Elise, it was a 2006 exige vs a Cayman S. However, the difference was 2.7 seconds which isn't small considering that the Exige is on A048s and the Cayman S is on PS2s. Put the Cayman S on cups and you're looking at probably a 5+ second difference. The 220 or 240 hp isn't going to make that time up. Actually the only reason that I'm bringing this up is that someday in the next few years I want to either get a sports car in addition to the 930 or trade the 930. Most days I'm thinking used 997 or 996 GT3, but when I hear about a 1 ton car that's cheaper and is cheaper with consumables my mind starts to stray. However, I like Porsches better and if I get passed by a Cayman S, I won't be happy (no knock to Caymans, they are wonderful cars, I just want something faster). Damn they are tempting packages though.

Jon70

I've seen a few posts regarding changing tire sizes for improved track performance. For the sake of argument, what tire/rim size would be optimum ignoring contraints by bodywork/fenderwell limits on either a GT3 or RS?

Yargk

As others are quick to state. With the right chassis setup you can get a very balanced car with the stock sizes or close to that. Often people do 18X9 and 18X12 which gives them an extra half inch in the front, but the main reason is for tire choice with 18s. However, for the optimum setup, I'd follow N-GT's lead and do 18X10 in the front and 18X12 in the rear. Also, cargraphic's tuner grand prix winning car runs 9.5s and 12s. Toyos in 275 and 335 would seem good for those wheels, but of course slicks would be better.

Jon70

I think the RS could handle either 335 or 345 in the rear given the extra fender space. I don't think it would work for the GT3 though. The larger fronts could be accomodated using flared cup fenders.

fasthound

I used to run a 2180lb 1972 bodied 911 in GT3S PCA Club racing. Fully race preapred....solid bushings, spherical bearings, fully adjustable coil-overs, etc. It had a stock 3.2L for power, and was just a fantastic lightweight track toy. Very quick and unbelievably agile.

So when I took my 997 GT3 on the track, I was, honestly, disappointed. It felt like a road car...which is what it is. It is NOT a race car. It is heavy. It is fast, no doubt, and feels like a rocketship on the straights, but is a road car through the turns. A very capable road car to be sure, but it just feels heavy and somewhat clumsy on the track....again, this is compared to my old lightweight race car.

Then my student let me drive his Exige S. It was agile and light and quick and turned on a dime, etc. It felt like my race car. I about 4 laps, including some in the wet, I was totally comfortable with 4-wheel drifts in high speed corners. I absolutely loved it.

For me, it's all about a lightweight car with enough power to make it fun. Colin Chapman had that same philosophy as did Porsche in the early days.

Look, don't get me wrong, the GT3 is an amazing car....probably for now the ultimate compromise between a street and race car. It's just not what I like on the track.

If I wanted to go really fast in a straight line, and reasonably fast in the corners, I'd go buy a viper acr. I want to go reasonably fast in a straight line and be able crawl up everyones *** in the twisties....that's what I enjoyed doing in my 911 race car. Let 'em pass me on the straights, and catch 'em in the corners. Of course, as they were passing me on the straights I would be screaming at my car to go faster, but such is life.

But ultimately, I know I will go back to a pure race car as opposed to a compromised race/street car. Dual purpose cars are always a compromise.

Just my opinion. We are all wired differently.