Excellence GT3 vs RSR Cup comparo
11-04-2007, 12:41 AM
#16
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one cannot compared fully decked out, factory built, well set up race car with a stock, poorly set up, street car. RSR should be faster, but i doubt 17 seconds. here is my short report:
P stout in 2nd opinion said car oversteering at some turns and pushes
at others. I'm sure the car was not set up and tires are worn. When I
had OEM MPSC with trk Alignment per manual, the car only pushed. I can't
get it to over steer short of full lift.
Oh, I'm 100% certain J VoB was just puttering around in the RS but
pushed more in RSR and that the RSR was properly set up and RS was poorly
alighned. Why? Thunderhill us one of my home trk. I run 15 days there a
year. I drove behind JVoB at one DE. Both in RS. He dropped me after
one lap (by front straight, he's 1/2straight ahead of me, so that means
no way in hell I can make up the time).
Now I have RA1 and seat/harness, all else stock. I had that when u
drive behind him as well. He only had stock seat and belt. I can do 204
consistently without pushing; talking to my passenger. I can do some 203
and once in a while (3-4 lap a day) I do 202. So with that in mind, even
with a box stock car, JVoB has to be faster than a hack like me. The
fact that he only did 202 tells me he's not doing Sunday drive to
church I'd something is wrong with car.
Thus my guess is that the lap time delta b/n RSR & RS is SLIGHTLY
smaller than the article suggested.
Another datapoint:
A friend in stock 6 GT3 with mpsc and safety gear. On he does have cup
4.0 RP. He runs cinsistant 200. So a well set up RS driven by JvOB HAS
to be faster than 202 as the article suggested.
P stout in 2nd opinion said car oversteering at some turns and pushes
at others. I'm sure the car was not set up and tires are worn. When I
had OEM MPSC with trk Alignment per manual, the car only pushed. I can't
get it to over steer short of full lift.
Oh, I'm 100% certain J VoB was just puttering around in the RS but
pushed more in RSR and that the RSR was properly set up and RS was poorly
alighned. Why? Thunderhill us one of my home trk. I run 15 days there a
year. I drove behind JVoB at one DE. Both in RS. He dropped me after
one lap (by front straight, he's 1/2straight ahead of me, so that means
no way in hell I can make up the time).
Now I have RA1 and seat/harness, all else stock. I had that when u
drive behind him as well. He only had stock seat and belt. I can do 204
consistently without pushing; talking to my passenger. I can do some 203
and once in a while (3-4 lap a day) I do 202. So with that in mind, even
with a box stock car, JVoB has to be faster than a hack like me. The
fact that he only did 202 tells me he's not doing Sunday drive to
church I'd something is wrong with car.
Thus my guess is that the lap time delta b/n RSR & RS is SLIGHTLY
smaller than the article suggested.
Another datapoint:
A friend in stock 6 GT3 with mpsc and safety gear. On he does have cup
4.0 RP. He runs cinsistant 200. So a well set up RS driven by JvOB HAS
to be faster than 202 as the article suggested.
+1 Mooty. 17 seconds is humungous.
11-04-2007, 07:45 PM
#17
The writer in his second opinion claims the car is more or less boring and has lost some of the Porsche magic in regards to feel.
I really hope not I have one on order. Just turned in a e60 M5 and that was the exact scnerio with that car. Way two isolated under 100 boring low torque etc. the older version with the V8 was more exciting and useable on the street.
I really hope not I have one on order. Just turned in a e60 M5 and that was the exact scnerio with that car. Way two isolated under 100 boring low torque etc. the older version with the V8 was more exciting and useable on the street.
11-04-2007, 08:04 PM
#18
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The writer in his second opinion claims the car is more or less boring and has lost some of the Porsche magic in regards to feel.
I really hope not I have one on order. Just turned in a e60 M5 and that was the exact scnerio with that car. Way two isolated under 100 boring low torque etc. the older version with the V8 was more exciting and useable on the street.
I really hope not I have one on order. Just turned in a e60 M5 and that was the exact scnerio with that car. Way two isolated under 100 boring low torque etc. the older version with the V8 was more exciting and useable on the street.
11-04-2007, 09:32 PM
#19
11-04-2007, 09:45 PM
#20
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i have driven or owned 928, 911sc, 911 3.2, 964, 993, 996 997 of various variants. none are all the exciting for me on street. so was 360 and f430. exige was exciting for about 10 min, then i got bored.
11-04-2007, 10:51 PM
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11-04-2007, 10:54 PM
#22
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here, my top speed anywhere within 100 miles of my house is around 45mph ugh.
11-07-2007, 02:15 PM
#23
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997 RS is definitely NOT boring. And, yeah, it sounds like we gotta get Mooty up to the loop roads a little more often.IMHO, 997 RS is exciting, but I don't find it to be as sweet or as satisfying as the 996 GT3. Or as *fun*. And, yes, I know it's not a popular opinion...
Finally, the RS we used was aligned per factory specs (went to Sonnen after I found a wheel problem just minutes before heading out on track at Infineon) and had four fresh tires.
After mentioning the oversteer on throttle and off throttle, JVO was asked the critical question by a friend of his: "Maybe it's just this car?" His response: "Except for the fact I've driven four of them now and they all handle the same."
That Johannes turned his time so equipped is impressive, but it's also impressive to me that Mooty is in the ball park (albeit with an improved car) with a top ALMS pro.
Cheers,
pete
11-07-2007, 02:45 PM
#24
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That difference is entirely what I would expect. The RSR has slicks, more horsepower, more efficient gearbox, less weight, and is much better set up to get through the corners, wheelbase widened, fat tyres, better suspension location, better springs and shocks, better brakes......
R+C
R+C
Agreed.
Of course 17 seconds sounds right. USA DOT spec 997 RS is just a street car on street tires and soft PASM suspension and enough rubber bushings to make the Queen of England feel comfortable, RSR is full bore race machine with lightweight everything.
11-07-2007, 02:50 PM
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Something we'll all have to remember about our views on street driving is we all know we can't push these cars on the street the way these cars were meant to be driven. Some of us have favorite roads we can play on and others are stuck in the city.
In my case, I don't have any good roads near my house where I can play without the threat of nasty consequences. Get on the gas for a couple seconds and I'm speeding. Stay on it for a few more and the cops might throw me in jail. Road construction is everywhere and other places are school zones and playground zones. Gotta behave.
I hardly ever drive my car on the street anymore because it's....boring. Most of my miles are driving to the autox pad or to the local race track. That's where I get this goofy grin on my face that won't go away.
Cheers,
11-07-2007, 02:53 PM
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Peter,
A couple of questions that come from my reading the article.
Aligned to Std spec or Track Spec for your test?
JVO stated that he would lower the car, Aprox how much?
I Assume lowering + track alignment, will net much more camber. I still get occasional snap oveersteer at -2.5d f , -2.0 rear with std ride ht. Tires maybe?
Tire reccomendations also welcome.
Thanks
A couple of questions that come from my reading the article.
Aligned to Std spec or Track Spec for your test?
JVO stated that he would lower the car, Aprox how much?
I Assume lowering + track alignment, will net much more camber. I still get occasional snap oveersteer at -2.5d f , -2.0 rear with std ride ht. Tires maybe?
Tire reccomendations also welcome.
Thanks
11-08-2007, 01:13 AM
#28
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i didn't mean to say i beat van overbeek. i just said i was driving my *** off and posted 2:02 while he was probably driving with one eye closed, hands behind his back and sipping mocha and still post 2:02.
11-08-2007, 01:16 AM
#29
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i dont want to get into trouble here ;-)
at 2:02, that's all i got.
at 2:02, VoB can turn the wick up and i am sure he can EASILY do 2:00 or 1:59 in a fully stock car. if he ran real r compounds i think 1:57 is likely in otherwise stock car.
11-08-2007, 06:35 AM
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Mooty provides a good data point for a car with the standard zeroth-order track prep. While I don't think VoB was on a Sunday drive, his own comments about feeling like he was going to fall out the stock drivers seat support the idea that he could have done better in the same car. That and mooty's car has different tires (R1As instead of toasted cups) and most likely a better alignment. VoB tested not a "stock" RS, but a beaten press RS, so I would say in a car with fresh tires (still stock cups), a good alignment, and proper seats (obviously a "stock" configuration, different tires would change that status), he certainly could do sub 2 minute laps.