fyi - stock 997gt3 flywheel weights 38#s ...
08-30-2007 | 03:12 PM
#16
- well, i drove the car back from the shop today (short ride city area so very limited impressions - Mosport is Monday for the real comparison)
- first and most importantly, the typical lwfw "chatter" that is most often associated with true lwfws is non existant from my perspective, it was the very first thing i was listening for and while my hearing isn't what it use to be, this mode will get the wife approved blessing (i.e. she will not notice anything)
- i have done after market lwfws on other cars and always had the "chatter" at low rpms and while under load (i.e. crusing around the neighbourhood under 2000rpms)
- clearly buying a porsche part and putting it in a porsche car works infinitly better than dealing with non OE parts
-second, as there is no chatter, i have no idea why porsche didn't put the lwfw in the car in the first place (it is 25#s lighter and your girl friend / wife when they drive the car will never know)???
- i managed to heal toe blip the throttle once on the way home to try a 3rd to 2nd gear shift and of course i missed the rpm match by about 3000rpms (obviously this is going to take a little bit to work out at the track but i can't wait for Monday at Mosport to dial it in)
- if you don't track your car, don't waste your money, if you do and yet you still don't want the car to sound like a race car in the neighbourhood, this flyweel looks like it fits the bill perfectly
+ my old 3190# car (gt3, ceramics, 996gt3 seats, 55#rollbar, 1/4 tankof gas) now weighs 3140# with the now mounted volk track wheels and lwfw
- what is also very interesting is that how quickly an allignment gets out of wack
- it has only been 3 trackdays since my last allignment to the track specs and while dialling in the "reverse track specs" the before check revealed the rear camber at -2.5 were now almost at -2 and the toes at all four corners were all over the place (the shop that did my past allignment is an excellent porsche track prep shop and i saw there post allignment numbers (they were perfect) and the car drove very well at Mosport and Watkins (I wonder if it was Calabogie and all those decreasing radius turns with fast trail braking entries + the "pushing" that has been reported at this track
remaining mods to get the car to 3000#
1) lw battery
2) lw exhaust - come on AWE?
3) ?
- first and most importantly, the typical lwfw "chatter" that is most often associated with true lwfws is non existant from my perspective, it was the very first thing i was listening for and while my hearing isn't what it use to be, this mode will get the wife approved blessing (i.e. she will not notice anything)
- i have done after market lwfws on other cars and always had the "chatter" at low rpms and while under load (i.e. crusing around the neighbourhood under 2000rpms)
- clearly buying a porsche part and putting it in a porsche car works infinitly better than dealing with non OE parts
-second, as there is no chatter, i have no idea why porsche didn't put the lwfw in the car in the first place (it is 25#s lighter and your girl friend / wife when they drive the car will never know)???
- i managed to heal toe blip the throttle once on the way home to try a 3rd to 2nd gear shift and of course i missed the rpm match by about 3000rpms (obviously this is going to take a little bit to work out at the track but i can't wait for Monday at Mosport to dial it in)
- if you don't track your car, don't waste your money, if you do and yet you still don't want the car to sound like a race car in the neighbourhood, this flyweel looks like it fits the bill perfectly
+ my old 3190# car (gt3, ceramics, 996gt3 seats, 55#rollbar, 1/4 tankof gas) now weighs 3140# with the now mounted volk track wheels and lwfw
- what is also very interesting is that how quickly an allignment gets out of wack
- it has only been 3 trackdays since my last allignment to the track specs and while dialling in the "reverse track specs" the before check revealed the rear camber at -2.5 were now almost at -2 and the toes at all four corners were all over the place (the shop that did my past allignment is an excellent porsche track prep shop and i saw there post allignment numbers (they were perfect) and the car drove very well at Mosport and Watkins (I wonder if it was Calabogie and all those decreasing radius turns with fast trail braking entries + the "pushing" that has been reported at this track
remaining mods to get the car to 3000#
1) lw battery
2) lw exhaust - come on AWE?
3) ?
Photos of your car with the Volks, please!
08-30-2007 | 06:13 PM
#17
09-04-2007 | 03:20 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Drifting
just got back from Mosport post the RS lwfw install + new allignment to -2.5front with .8mm of total toe in and -2rear with factory race spec toe in + new volks with 19" OE mpsc + new front pads (impressions)
1) lets start with new front pccb pads - i can now conclusively say that when you get new pads you have to be ready for that "green fade" moment when you first light up the pads - i was ready this time and it happened on the second hot lap into turn one - you get that pedal goes soft and travels too far and i'm not slowing down moment - it of course still freaks you out a little but i was pretty sure it would go away - to be safe i played it easy for a lap or two and the pedal came back - so i'm pretty sure now it isn't the fluid but it is the "green / gas fade" issue that freaks out pccb guys when they goto the track and get pissed off for spending 8Gs and the pedal goes to the floor - PORSCHE (please put this in the manual)
2) RS lwfw continues to be virtually silent (i.e stock like) and after a few massive over revs it was easy to relearn the required heal toe blip for downshifts - i'm truly amazed it is not more difficult to drive given that it is 25#s lighter - for you hard core track guys it is worth doing - for everyone else, the stock flywheel is fine - no regrets doing it and would do it again - again, i'm surprised it doesn't chatter (i understand it does on RS cars but currently for me it is silent)
3) new reverse allignment (-2.5front, -2 rear) so many thoughts given the calabogie thread on under / overstear
- clearly the car from the factory is designed to slightly push so that guys like me don't kill themsleves on the track - mess with the settings enough and put stickier tires on the front and sure enough a car with the engine in the rear once the car in the front turns in hard can / will sling shot the rear and welcome to the land of overstear
- that said, what i noticed on the track the most was going from -2.5 in the rear to -2. Mosport, for those that don't know, is a very highspeed track that the car can benefit tremendously from downforce, a little bit of wing front and rear and you can be 4seconds faster easily as you can take negative camber #2 and #4 way faster as well as #8 at the end of the back straight - without downforce, clearly negative camber is your friend and i could feel the rear end getting a little loose in #4 as i started to pick up speed (i didn't get this sensation at similar speeds with -2.5 rear camber) - so, clearly the tradeoff is how long do you want you rear tires to last and rear camber - as I will be installing the RS larger rear, i'm hoping to get the best of all worlds (better tire wear and better rear end grip by using some wing - currently i'm running full rear (+8degrees) wing with the stock gt3 wing - if the larger RS wing doesn't plant that rear end then I will be going back to -2.5 rear camber as there is no f'ing way i'm good enough to catch the rear end of this car in turn #4 as Mosport
- the front at -2.5 with a tiny, tiny bit of toe in VS -2 with zero toe - this i would call a wash - car still pushes in #10 and #5b - if anything, i think the zero front toe setting may have worked better at off camber #3 and i think this is worth exploring more (i.e running 1/16 to 1/8th total toe out in the front to get the car to turn in but to keep as much rear camber as you checkbook will allow)
4) new 19" VOLKs
- they did the job and hid most of the dirty black rubber because they are gun metal black
5) I had some breaking instability into the very highspeed braking zone at the end of the back straight
- i have no idea if other cars experienced this
- was it possibly because of the all the AMLS races there last week?
- or maybe was it the new front pads that even after the green fade was mostly gone was still expelling some gas and as a result there was too much rear brake bias with rear pads that already had 2 track days on them and city miles - anyways, it was highly, highly nervous dangerous feeling as the rear end was wagging back and forth as i deceled from 250kph to 140kph - this alone made my track times 2 seconds higher versus last time as i just wasn't willing to enter the braking zone above 235kph
6) after reading the calabogie thread and adding together my 12 trackdays experience with this gt3 playing with allignments, tire preassures, different tracks, etc, these are my thoughts
- the RS with it's bigger wing allows slightly faster high speed corners to be taken as it plants the rear end
- the tiny front extension that the RS has is likely not enough to counter the rear wing, likely the CUP splitter would be better to generate more front downforce to help turn the car
- be careful what you wish for as both ends of the car are connectly, if you dial in the front of the car to turn-in, just remember that the rear is connected and is going to want to follow with momemtum (what seems to be coming out of the calabogie thread + my own experience about feeling the rear start to rotate more with only -2 versus -2.5 camber with additional front camber
- my next allignment before I goto Tremblant is going to put the rear camber back to -2.25 + running the RS wing and i'm going to leave the front camber at -2.5 but i'm going to goto an 1/8th total toe out
Paul
1) lets start with new front pccb pads - i can now conclusively say that when you get new pads you have to be ready for that "green fade" moment when you first light up the pads - i was ready this time and it happened on the second hot lap into turn one - you get that pedal goes soft and travels too far and i'm not slowing down moment - it of course still freaks you out a little but i was pretty sure it would go away - to be safe i played it easy for a lap or two and the pedal came back - so i'm pretty sure now it isn't the fluid but it is the "green / gas fade" issue that freaks out pccb guys when they goto the track and get pissed off for spending 8Gs and the pedal goes to the floor - PORSCHE (please put this in the manual)
2) RS lwfw continues to be virtually silent (i.e stock like) and after a few massive over revs it was easy to relearn the required heal toe blip for downshifts - i'm truly amazed it is not more difficult to drive given that it is 25#s lighter - for you hard core track guys it is worth doing - for everyone else, the stock flywheel is fine - no regrets doing it and would do it again - again, i'm surprised it doesn't chatter (i understand it does on RS cars but currently for me it is silent)
3) new reverse allignment (-2.5front, -2 rear) so many thoughts given the calabogie thread on under / overstear
- clearly the car from the factory is designed to slightly push so that guys like me don't kill themsleves on the track - mess with the settings enough and put stickier tires on the front and sure enough a car with the engine in the rear once the car in the front turns in hard can / will sling shot the rear and welcome to the land of overstear
- that said, what i noticed on the track the most was going from -2.5 in the rear to -2. Mosport, for those that don't know, is a very highspeed track that the car can benefit tremendously from downforce, a little bit of wing front and rear and you can be 4seconds faster easily as you can take negative camber #2 and #4 way faster as well as #8 at the end of the back straight - without downforce, clearly negative camber is your friend and i could feel the rear end getting a little loose in #4 as i started to pick up speed (i didn't get this sensation at similar speeds with -2.5 rear camber) - so, clearly the tradeoff is how long do you want you rear tires to last and rear camber - as I will be installing the RS larger rear, i'm hoping to get the best of all worlds (better tire wear and better rear end grip by using some wing - currently i'm running full rear (+8degrees) wing with the stock gt3 wing - if the larger RS wing doesn't plant that rear end then I will be going back to -2.5 rear camber as there is no f'ing way i'm good enough to catch the rear end of this car in turn #4 as Mosport
- the front at -2.5 with a tiny, tiny bit of toe in VS -2 with zero toe - this i would call a wash - car still pushes in #10 and #5b - if anything, i think the zero front toe setting may have worked better at off camber #3 and i think this is worth exploring more (i.e running 1/16 to 1/8th total toe out in the front to get the car to turn in but to keep as much rear camber as you checkbook will allow)
4) new 19" VOLKs
- they did the job and hid most of the dirty black rubber because they are gun metal black
5) I had some breaking instability into the very highspeed braking zone at the end of the back straight
- i have no idea if other cars experienced this
- was it possibly because of the all the AMLS races there last week?
- or maybe was it the new front pads that even after the green fade was mostly gone was still expelling some gas and as a result there was too much rear brake bias with rear pads that already had 2 track days on them and city miles - anyways, it was highly, highly nervous dangerous feeling as the rear end was wagging back and forth as i deceled from 250kph to 140kph - this alone made my track times 2 seconds higher versus last time as i just wasn't willing to enter the braking zone above 235kph
6) after reading the calabogie thread and adding together my 12 trackdays experience with this gt3 playing with allignments, tire preassures, different tracks, etc, these are my thoughts
- the RS with it's bigger wing allows slightly faster high speed corners to be taken as it plants the rear end
- the tiny front extension that the RS has is likely not enough to counter the rear wing, likely the CUP splitter would be better to generate more front downforce to help turn the car
- be careful what you wish for as both ends of the car are connectly, if you dial in the front of the car to turn-in, just remember that the rear is connected and is going to want to follow with momemtum (what seems to be coming out of the calabogie thread + my own experience about feeling the rear start to rotate more with only -2 versus -2.5 camber with additional front camber
- my next allignment before I goto Tremblant is going to put the rear camber back to -2.25 + running the RS wing and i'm going to leave the front camber at -2.5 but i'm going to goto an 1/8th total toe out
Paul
Last edited by 997gt3north; 09-04-2007 at 08:55 PM.
09-04-2007 | 10:49 PM
#22
Thread Starter
Drifting
09-16-2007 | 01:02 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Drifting
- update on the new lwfw after 2 track events and 800km of driving
- after making no sound at all, it has started to make the slight "chatter" when the car is idling
- it happened on my drive up to calabogie from toronto when i had driven 300km without stopping and pulled up to light
- so, while i may have had the only lwfw that didn't chatter at all, it now chatters when out of gear idling
- in my opinion it suits the nature of the car and once in gear it is silent
- after making no sound at all, it has started to make the slight "chatter" when the car is idling
- it happened on my drive up to calabogie from toronto when i had driven 300km without stopping and pulled up to light
- so, while i may have had the only lwfw that didn't chatter at all, it now chatters when out of gear idling
- in my opinion it suits the nature of the car and once in gear it is silent
09-16-2007 | 01:40 PM
#25
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I did this to my 996 GT3 and it was the single most impressive mod you can do.
I have heard about the noise issue and I never
paid attention or noticed it
I was too busy driving and smiling
I have heard about the noise issue and I never
paid attention or noticed it
I was too busy driving and smiling
09-16-2007 | 02:07 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada...
Okay, can someone tell me why when you add a LWFW why there is chatter and what exactly chatters?
Is it because with the LWFW there isn't as much mass spinning to keep things....'tight'?
Is it because with the LWFW there isn't as much mass spinning to keep things....'tight'?
09-16-2007 | 02:51 PM
#27
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The gears chatter- the dual mass flywheel is exclusively for the US market as Porsche sees us as
luxury car drivers and dont want the noise. And here are 50% of us changing as fast as we can.
luxury car drivers and dont want the noise. And here are 50% of us changing as fast as we can.
09-17-2007 | 01:51 AM
#28
Racer
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i don't live in the US, and my GT3 is an ROW spec car (no sunroof, clubsport package with the cage and CGT seats)... does that mean that I already have the LWFW?
i had an RMS issue a few months back, which the dealer fixed under warranty. at the time, i asked them to look into upgrading to a LWFW, but they said that upgrade was not available for my car. i thought they were full of sh*t back then, but figured just to have the car fixed and live with what i have (seeing as the car is so much more talented than I, so upgrading it seemed useless for now).
now i'm thinking... if i the dual mass flywheel is really exclusively for the US market, then my dealer was on the up-and-up in telling me the upgrade isn't available for my car... since perhaps i already have it?
hmmm... so sorry for the
09-17-2007 | 08:55 AM
#29
Thread Starter
Drifting
if your hear chatter in neutral you have a lwfw otherwise you have a dual mass lw
i believe all gt3s are shipped with a dual mass fw
upgrade isn't exactly the correct word, you could have ordered your dealer to install one, they could refuse i guess - it comes stock in the RS, is a Porsche OE part so we know it works
i believe all gt3s are shipped with a dual mass fw
upgrade isn't exactly the correct word, you could have ordered your dealer to install one, they could refuse i guess - it comes stock in the RS, is a Porsche OE part so we know it works