mooty

in ABSOLUTE stock form, they are fine.
if you try to boost it, you are SOL.

allegretto

I know. But the problem is that the front and rear are both single piece ( and the front is the cheap one as you know).

So a simple "fender-bender" is going to cost a new clam, not just a fender. And remember your repair bill is about 15% of the cost of an entire car!

I've heard of insurance companies totalling these cars for relatively small accidents due to parts costs. I'm sure you have too. Insurance premiums reflect this. My Elise cost me more than my Porsche to insure!

Hey they're fun. But not for the timid in terms of costs.

Terry L

My Elise cost me way less than my Porsche to insure.

996FLT6

Evo-way too temperamental once u start boosting it up. My friend's EVO-boosted up to 425 hp cannot even last more then 3 laps at T-hill. Boost comes at 5500 rpm and redline is 8000-very small window going thru corners and he fried his brakes last time at T-hill(did sat but no sunday) even though countless times told him to change the damn brakes due to more hp. Takes to much time and $ to set up right. Mike

yemenmocha

What about a 2001/2002 e46 M3? Price is coming down considerably and I'm rather tall. Elise won't fit unless they do something with the seats/rails for me, and I barely fit in a GT3 with helmet. E46's out there are available with no sunroof and manual seats.

Thanks

frayed

Based on the original criteria the E36 M3 is a better choice than the E46. They are quite a bit lighter and hence more fun, cheaper, have better steering feel, and have a very well developed aftermarket. Also, I've seen several E46 grenade on track. The S54 motor suffered from several design flaws that were 'fixed' along the way with newer iterations and/or new motors under warranty. However, even these have grenaded. I think the S54 is so seriously high strung that it is not as durable as older S52 motors.

That said, an E46 M3 will be faster on most tracks than the older car provided that both cars are in a similar state of tune. Wider track, stiffer shell, way mo powa.

blake

You might want to try these for the Elise/Exige: http://www.sector111.com/products/in...seat_rails.cfm

Someone may have posted this ealier in the thread, so I apologize if it is a repost. I looked into an Exige myself as a second track car but am a bit too tall to drive comfortably with helmet... I barely fit with a helmet in the GT3, and had to use the Brey-Krause rails to get the extra headroom...

The e36 looks compelling, however...

-Blake

pdxjim

Would recommend a used WRX. I had a wagon for a couple of years that embarassed the P cars on the track in the dry and would leave them quickly in the mist in the wet!

yemenmocha

Elise question: did you fit in the exige with those rails better than you did in a GT3?

WRX question: is it has fun to drive with the AWD and weight? Even though I can take my M3 around most corners at the same speed as my 997, it's just not as fun.

Max Power

I would find a 65-72 911. Your friend will have the fun of learning in a rear-engined car, good ones can be found at $20-$25k, and in 5 years, it will be worth $40-$50k. Unless it is crashed, it will not go down in value, no matter how many miles he puts on it.

pdxjim

WRX: is fun to drive and toss around. In the wet you try to get the rear hanging out and then hit the gas.

997gt3north

- e36 m3 without a question
- friend just bought one and shared the car with 2 others two weeks ago at VIR
- it ran in 3 of the 4 sessions for 2 days
- everyone who drove the car said it was just so fun to drive
- he removed some weight from the car, put in seats & harnesses

frayed

Yeah brudda.

One of the reasons I went back to an E36 for a track car, was to have something fun, fast, and forgiving to share with friends at the track. I'd have major agita sharing my 125k GT3, but love to see a buddy rip a few hot laps in my M3.

OldGuy

I have thought about this and thought about this My advice is a 997 CUP
Think about it. You get a 944 for 15K then you spend 25K getting everything track ready
and you get it perfect.
Then you step up to a 996 TT 50-60K then another 20-30K upgrading supsension
roll bar etc etc so your in the whole 150k and then
you get a 996 Cup 70-80K track ready
so just take a short cut to the 997 Cup and save 150K or so.
Just a thought.

Yargk

I've done 7 track days with the WRX, maybe the same in my 930 a few years ago, and a couple days in my e30. Most people have much more experience on track than I, but I probably obsessively research this stuff more than most.

First, the WRX since I've been tracking it more recently. I have an 07 which means I have the 2.5 liter motor. These cars really need suspension modifications to make them fun on the track in my opinion. However, if you're careful with your choices (don't just get the off the shelf H&R etc.), you can have a very well handling car that is a blast to drive for maybe 2-3k in suspension mods. This will pull probably a G and has dramatically reduced understeer. With it I can keep up with most anything still using street tires in the turns since I'm also still on street tires. The WRX needs a tranny cooler (at least the 2.5s do), but brakes seem ok if you're willing to swap front pads every 2-3 days. The power is good and the powerband is decent. I believe an exhaust opens up some torque and dramatically widens the powerband (3-6.5k rpm). If you keep the boost and max power down, it will still be reliable, but more tractable than stock.

However, I wouldn't get a WRX to track, or an evo. If you have only one car, get one, but if you can get two cars, get a lighter car for the track. ITR, S2000, Elise, e36 M3s are all wonderful cars on paper (less than 3000 pounds or close to it) and the people here vouch for them. My preference would be Elise, S2k, then M3, but that's probably just because I can't wait to get back into a track car with less seats (my 930 project). Spending so little money on tires and brakes for the Elise would be pretty sweet though. Just find a used 05 with the sport pack and drive drive drive. Mooty, what were your elise thoughts? Any reliability issues?