Appears that the heat is turning down on the GT3's
05-31-2007, 12:44 PM
#31
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Final post - this is getting old... To the guys pointing and laughing (and I understand why), they are thinking "that's supposed to be the lightweight track-ready RS..." and they see "stuff" added that adds weight and the topper was the big coffee mug in the cup holder. Can you imagine? A cup holder in an RS? It's just an alien thought...
Hey, this is America - if you want to buy an RS and load it up, go right ahead. But if you show up in a loaded up version at the track, you could expect to have some people roll their eyes.
Hey, this is America - if you want to buy an RS and load it up, go right ahead. But if you show up in a loaded up version at the track, you could expect to have some people roll their eyes.
05-31-2007, 01:11 PM
#33
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Oh there are - but those that have talked to me at least complimented: Manual seats, oem fire extinguisher, and when they point and say "you got Nav?!?" I explain, "no, they all come with the computer screen now..."
05-31-2007, 01:25 PM
#34
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RonCT - I admit to being with you. When I see a loaded up GT3 or RS I snicker to myself. Probably not PC but I can't help it. If a friend asked me whether he should buy a GT3 or RS, my response would be "what will you use it for"? If he says "street" I'd suggest he buy a TT instead and load it up any way he wants.
If the answer was track - I'd say cool and here is how I ordered mine - three options, Xenon lights, thick steering wheel (free) and floor mats. Extra funds were invested in GT3 seats, harnesses, roll bar, extinguisher and Fikse 18 inch wheels.
Given that the new GT3s are more civilized than the 996 version, perhaps they have more appeal to someone who wants to look like a track driver while parked in front of a bistro someplace. That's none of my business, but I still snicker. Does this make me a bad person? Should I call Dr. Phil?
About the CS - I bought my 996GT3 from another track junkie who found the clutch too heavy for his injured left leg. The timing was perfect because I had fallen in love with my wife's GT3 and preferred it on track to my 996GT2.
He replaced the GT3 with a 360 CS. Paddle shifters resolved the clutch problem. We met at the track after he had set up the car with a corner balance. The first CS myth was shattered. On the scales for the corner balance, the car weighed 3135 lbs after the driver got out!!!! So the idea of the CS being less than 2800 lbs was proven to be nonsense. Somewhere in Italy there is no doubt a lightweight CS, but the ones sent to North America were heavier and included AC and a few other things the light version did not have.
Then we hit the track and my pal was dismayed to find out that his CS could not stay with my (was his) GT3. I figure it was the weight of those $8,000 racing stripes his came with.
If the answer was track - I'd say cool and here is how I ordered mine - three options, Xenon lights, thick steering wheel (free) and floor mats. Extra funds were invested in GT3 seats, harnesses, roll bar, extinguisher and Fikse 18 inch wheels.
Given that the new GT3s are more civilized than the 996 version, perhaps they have more appeal to someone who wants to look like a track driver while parked in front of a bistro someplace. That's none of my business, but I still snicker. Does this make me a bad person? Should I call Dr. Phil?
About the CS - I bought my 996GT3 from another track junkie who found the clutch too heavy for his injured left leg. The timing was perfect because I had fallen in love with my wife's GT3 and preferred it on track to my 996GT2.
He replaced the GT3 with a 360 CS. Paddle shifters resolved the clutch problem. We met at the track after he had set up the car with a corner balance. The first CS myth was shattered. On the scales for the corner balance, the car weighed 3135 lbs after the driver got out!!!! So the idea of the CS being less than 2800 lbs was proven to be nonsense. Somewhere in Italy there is no doubt a lightweight CS, but the ones sent to North America were heavier and included AC and a few other things the light version did not have.
Then we hit the track and my pal was dismayed to find out that his CS could not stay with my (was his) GT3. I figure it was the weight of those $8,000 racing stripes his came with.
05-31-2007, 01:42 PM
#35
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There was a very interesting article in Excellence recently which suggested that the weight of the Nav system was about 300 Grams or equal to the driver's lunch. Removing it would mean, and I quote more or less, that the only difference would be that the driver would get lost more easily on his way to the track.
05-31-2007, 01:47 PM
#36
Originally Posted by RonCT
Two things rub me the wrong way on that car. One is the Navigation - what a joke in an RS.
05-31-2007, 01:57 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Ritesh
No offense but this is a street car. I mean if you can afford a RS you can probably afford a track car. I would much rather buy a cup car or 944TT as a track car than abuse my GT3/RS at the track. I know I know thats what it is meant for but at 3200 lbs, full leather and recent insurance issues I personally don't think its a great decision.
05-31-2007, 01:58 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by normank
There was a very interesting article in Excellence recently which suggested that the weight of the Nav system was about 300 Grams or equal to the driver's lunch. Removing it would mean, and I quote more or less, that the only difference would be that the driver would get lost more easily on his way to the track.
05-31-2007, 02:02 PM
#41
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Ritesh - no offense taken. Yes I can afford a track car. I can also afford to "abuse" my RS on the track. I question your interpretation of abuse however. For example my 95 993 saw lots of track use over a ten year period and in still being tracked by its new owner. The car is in wonderful shape because it was carefully maintained.
Siince you suggest a Cup car as a better alternative, let's look at the economics - $110K for a used cup car. Add a trailer and a truck to tow it, plus insurance on them - there is no insurance except perhaps theft on the cup car. How are we doing dollar wise? Is an "incident" with a cup car cheaper to repair than on the RS? I don't think so. The 4 year warranty on the RS is also comforting as compared to a $25K motor refresh on the cup car every 80 odd hours.
While a cup car provides even more performance on the track, the benefit is offset by the nuisance of a truck and trailer. Where I live I am not allowed to park the rig in my driveway.
The beauty of the GT3 (any of them) is that you can drive to the track and then drive the wheels off it and then drive home. In our region there are a number of these cars tracked by excellent drivers (Rolex champ to name just one). With equal cars, it is a blast. I compliment Porshe for giving us a streetable car which is enjoyable on the track. That's a lot more than I can say for alleged sports cars with M or AMG badges. In sum, *that's* the whole point of the GT3.
Best,
Siince you suggest a Cup car as a better alternative, let's look at the economics - $110K for a used cup car. Add a trailer and a truck to tow it, plus insurance on them - there is no insurance except perhaps theft on the cup car. How are we doing dollar wise? Is an "incident" with a cup car cheaper to repair than on the RS? I don't think so. The 4 year warranty on the RS is also comforting as compared to a $25K motor refresh on the cup car every 80 odd hours.
While a cup car provides even more performance on the track, the benefit is offset by the nuisance of a truck and trailer. Where I live I am not allowed to park the rig in my driveway.
The beauty of the GT3 (any of them) is that you can drive to the track and then drive the wheels off it and then drive home. In our region there are a number of these cars tracked by excellent drivers (Rolex champ to name just one). With equal cars, it is a blast. I compliment Porshe for giving us a streetable car which is enjoyable on the track. That's a lot more than I can say for alleged sports cars with M or AMG badges. In sum, *that's* the whole point of the GT3.
Best,
05-31-2007, 02:06 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Carrera GT
Although there are rumours of the GT2 (incredibly) getting some weight-saving elements. Here's hoping.
05-31-2007, 02:21 PM
#43
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I've not seen a test of a fully loaded RS vs a naked RS...but I bet you the better driver will win...
In my (not so long experience i must admit) in tracks and DE events, I have seen a very low correlation between how a car is equipped and how fast they lap. A lot of this "hard core" old (and new) guys with the super stripped zero extra weight cars couldn't find the right race line even if you draw it in the asphalt for them. And I have seen very very good drivers in super chi chi brand new full leather Turbos with cupholders....wearing jeans and sneakers and not bright red Momo racign suits.
In my (not so long experience i must admit) in tracks and DE events, I have seen a very low correlation between how a car is equipped and how fast they lap. A lot of this "hard core" old (and new) guys with the super stripped zero extra weight cars couldn't find the right race line even if you draw it in the asphalt for them. And I have seen very very good drivers in super chi chi brand new full leather Turbos with cupholders....wearing jeans and sneakers and not bright red Momo racign suits.
05-31-2007, 02:22 PM
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http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...0&fpart=7&vc=1
This is from a Rennteam thread about the Audi R8 posting faster lap times than the 997 GT3.
'' I know both John Barker (who set the GT3 times) and Richard Meaden (who set the R8 times), both are consumate professionals behind the wheel and not your 'typical' journalist. Richard has successfully raced in the Porsche Supercup, and was on the podium twice when driving the guest car. He has also raced in the Nurburgring 24 hours and this year will be racing a Maserati Gransport in the VLN series alongside ex-F1 driver Jacques Laffite. John is also a successful national racer and their lap-times in a variety of cars is nigh on identical.
In other words, they have proven experience in driving a GT3 at the highest levels of motorsport, so I don't subscribe to 'driving ability' being a limiting factor when comparing the R8 and GT3s times.
Having raced Porsches myself and also competed against other 911 drivers when in front-engined BMWs, I suspect that the R8 will have gained most its time in its entry into slow/medium speed corners. Traction differences when exiting corners would have been very little - I have never had any problems putting power down in a 911 when driving around Bedford.
I haven't driven the 997 GT3 but I suspect the main advantage gained by the R8 would have been due to its benign chassis balance and therefore being able to carry more speed to the apex of each corner. The power advantage of the GT3 will not have been enough to counter this, since for example along the 1 km straight at Bedford a 996 GT3 only pulls 2-3 car lengths on my BMW M3 CSL, which I catch right up again when braking into corners (just as the R8 probably does).
Just a thought. ''
Steve
This is from a Rennteam thread about the Audi R8 posting faster lap times than the 997 GT3.
'' I know both John Barker (who set the GT3 times) and Richard Meaden (who set the R8 times), both are consumate professionals behind the wheel and not your 'typical' journalist. Richard has successfully raced in the Porsche Supercup, and was on the podium twice when driving the guest car. He has also raced in the Nurburgring 24 hours and this year will be racing a Maserati Gransport in the VLN series alongside ex-F1 driver Jacques Laffite. John is also a successful national racer and their lap-times in a variety of cars is nigh on identical.
In other words, they have proven experience in driving a GT3 at the highest levels of motorsport, so I don't subscribe to 'driving ability' being a limiting factor when comparing the R8 and GT3s times.
Having raced Porsches myself and also competed against other 911 drivers when in front-engined BMWs, I suspect that the R8 will have gained most its time in its entry into slow/medium speed corners. Traction differences when exiting corners would have been very little - I have never had any problems putting power down in a 911 when driving around Bedford.
I haven't driven the 997 GT3 but I suspect the main advantage gained by the R8 would have been due to its benign chassis balance and therefore being able to carry more speed to the apex of each corner. The power advantage of the GT3 will not have been enough to counter this, since for example along the 1 km straight at Bedford a 996 GT3 only pulls 2-3 car lengths on my BMW M3 CSL, which I catch right up again when braking into corners (just as the R8 probably does).
Just a thought. ''
Steve
05-31-2007, 02:23 PM
#45
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mine has NAV...with stichng and full leather ... great car around town makes me smile when i start it up to get a cup of coffee .. hell its a blast to put groceries in ... would i rather have it with out all the goodies.. maybe maybe not.. they are just play toys either way each his own i figure. im willing to guess i wont get lost on the track when i spin off backwards though!!!!! lmaoooooo