NJ-GT

These are the times that should matter. Hockenheim is a World Class Racetrack where Formula 1 runs, and small enough in the short configuration, to show consistent results between cars.

Notice that the 997 GT3 is faster than the 996 GT3 RS (by 0.1 secs). But notice also that the 997 GT3 RS is 0.6 secs faster than the 997 GT3.

The 997 GT3 RS being 0.6 secs faster than the 997 GT3 in a 70 secs road course says a lot, that's a big difference. There is more than just the split rear arms, and wider rear track on the RS. The short Hockenheim configuration doesn't allow to take advantage of improved aerodynamics given the low speeds.

Personally, I think there are hidden differences between the 997 GT3 and 997 GT3 RS not being disclosed by the marketing material. It would be interesting to put both cars on the same dyno, and put them on the InterComp/LongAcre scales to find out part of the truth. There could be a different calibration on PASM, different spring rates, and better stability given the Rollbar design.

Master Deep

Anyone know the 997TT and 996 TT and GT3 times?

carrering

these tests are done on an open day. all it takes is one car not moving over quick enough or having to slightly modify your line to account for 1 second. heck even w/o other traffic slight variations in your line over 23km's will make a second loss. do both the 996 and 997 back to back with same driver and average over 10 laps. try to keep all other variables as close as possible. ie fuel load, tire condition, brake pads, brake fluid...blah blah blah. now that would be a great test. 996 has weight advantage, 997 has power. the main problem with running on the ring is unless its shut down for just you, you never know whats going to happen. you can have several laps with not a soul out there or you can have a pack of crazy italian bikers swarm around you or you come up to a minivan! when i was out there with a friend driving she didn't see a car coming up and almost shut the door on him before i yanked the wheel back to the right. he had to do some emergency braking in a corner. never know out there.

tocho1

A few more stats from same article...
36m slalom:
141 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3 RS*
141 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3*
138 km/h - koenigsegg CCR
137 km/h - AC Schnitzer Topster*
137 km/h - Pagani Zonda F
136 km/h - Alpina Roadster S*
136 km/h - Mercedes CLK DTM AMG*
136 km/h - Porsche 996 Carrera S
135 km/h - Audi RS4*
135 km/h - BMW M3 CSL*
135 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT

110m evasion test:
159 km/h - Pagani Zonda F
158 km/h - Koenisgegg CCX
158 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3 RS*
158 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3*
157 km/h - BMW M3 CSL*
157 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT
155 km/h - Alpina Roadster S
154 km/h - Porsche 996 GT2
153 km/h - Lamborghini Murcielago LP640*
153 km/h - Porsche 997 Carrera S

Best over all:
77 pts. - Porsche 997 GT3 RS
77 pts. - Porsche 997 GT3
76 pts. - Lamborghini Murcielago LP640
75 pts. - Pagano Zonda F
74 pts. - Koenigsegg CCR
71 pts. - Porsche 996 Carrera S

* indcates semi-slicks


Source: sportauto

2ndof2

My 1996 993C2 did a 10 min 25 sec run from my front door to Starbuck's last Saturday. Best I ever did in my 1980 928 was an 11.5. LOL
I always thought focusing on lap times was kind of ridiculous unless you race cars for a living. Seems to me that there are too many variables on a long course between car set-up, weather, driver etc. to really put alot of weight on these numbers, but I guess the car companies have to have something to convince people that newer is better.

Orabidoo

Sport Auto

06/2003 996GT3 mk2 NS 7,54 HH 1,13,2
06/2000 996Turbo NS 7,56 HH 1,14,6

997Turbo not tested yet (Supertest).

BobbyC

Guys and Orabidoo - my earlier post with the was not intended to "shoot the messenger"! After having opined that a 1 sec diff on the 'Ring was "insignificant" given the number of variables at play the "banghead" post was just a reaction to Orabidoo's "but it was still slower" response. No offense intended. Cheers!

NJ-GT

Hockenheim (Short Track-Sport Auto):

997 GT3 RS: 1:11.1*
997 GT3: 1:11.7*
996 GT3 RS: 1:11.8*
996 GT2: 1:12.6
996 GT3: 1:13.2
996 Turbo: 1:14.6

The Turbo, 996 GT3 and 996 GT2 were tested with street tires rather than race tires. On a 60 secs course (Pocono racetrack) I drop 1 full second using MPSC compared to the PS2 street tires. However, the MPSC I used are faster than the Pirelli Corsa on the 996 GT3RS and faster than the new rain-friendly MPSC on the 997 GT3 /GT3 RS.

Even if I drop 1 second from the 996 TT, 996 GT3 and 996 GT2 times, the 997 GT3 RS is still faster.

That 997 GT3 RS really got something.

doc2s

which test was that? the super test 0-200 time was 14 s for the rs.

gete3

From Rennteam:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...ge=0&fpart=all

Were all 3 cars run on that day? Or are they just comapring time from last years test?

Post Extras:
KF
Rennteam Deputy


Reged: Mar 23 2004
Posts: 1169
Re: 997 GT3 RS- SportAuto "Supertest" [Re: RR4]
#323133 - Fri Feb 23 2007 04:30 PM


Of coures not! But the 996 Gt3 RS was testet in same conditions.

Between the weather conditions of the GT3 test and the 997 RS test there is a bigger difference.

Air temperature:
GT3: 23 Grad
RS: 17 Grad

Track temperature:
GT3: 31 Grad
RS: 21 Grad

The testet GT3 had no CS-package! The GT3´s weight was 1440 including gas, the RS weighed 1424 kg including gas.

Acceleration:
0-100 km/h: both 4,3 sec
0-160 km/h: both 9,2 sec
0-180 km/h: GT3 11,5 sec
RS 11,1 sec

0-200 km/h: GT3 13,9 sec
RS 14,0 sec

Breakperformance:

100-0 km/h warm: GT3 33,2 m
RS 34,6 m

200-0 km/h warm: GT3 130,4 m
RS 135,4

Car costs (german prices):

GT3: € 130 964 incl. VAT
RS: € 146 109 incl. VAT

Both cars were equipped with PCCB and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires. Gear ratio is exactly the same.

RR

See Excellence February 2007 pg 124

"Walter Rohrl covered a lap at the RING - including passing 5 cars (b/c it was a public day THEY DID NOT CLOSE THE COURSE FOR PORSCHE 0 in 7:42. That day he also drove a Carrera GT to 7:37 in the same conditions."

We all know the quickest time for Walter in the GT was 7:32 at the RING. Therefore he knows the RS can do it in a quicker time than 7:42 if the course was closed just for him.

Sport Auto's figures are just another set of figures. They may be correct for all those conditions that day, for that driver for that public day at the ring, but they ARE FAR from being definitive or significant.

Basically what Im saying is that if we are going to emphasize these number from Sport Auto, lets emphasize these ones too.

gete3

Faster drivers drive all cars faster. The Sport Auto times are not necessarily the fastest possible times for any car. They are, however, the best comparison - with the least variables - between cars. Sport Auto provides the most widely respected and accurate comparison of sports car performance.

JFT

The fact that there is not a huge performance difference between the 997 RS and the 996 RS shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. In my hands the 997 RS is slightly faster. Probably because I'm not as good a driver as von Saurma or Röhrl. I'll tell you one thing though. Von Saurma couldn't drive the 'Ring exactly as fast in the SAME car if he tried. He will have lap times that vary at least 3-5 seconds over 8 minutes. So I woudn't get bunched up over a 1 sec difference either way. I think the Hockenheim time difference is more telling - 7 tenths over a one minute lap. My 2 cents.

MetalSolid

I think the Hockenheim times are less telling... A certain type of small driving mistake(or traffic) that costs you 0.70secs on a 2 mile track will also cost you 0.70secs on a 12 mile track; but if you go by percentage that same mistake appears bigger on a smaller track when in fact it's not. Tenths of seconds are not shown in the Ring times, but if Hockenheim times were formatted the same all the GT3 versions would have the same laptime of 1:11. You would have to average the laptimes of 7 Hockenhiem runs for each car to get the same accuracy as one Ring run.

JFT

Except that the Hockenheim times are extremely consistent between the cars, which means that von Saurma must have made "mistakes" on all other GT3s - 996, 996 RS, and 997...