997GT3 RS 7,48 @ Nurburgring
02-23-2007, 11:22 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by frayed
I was thinking that ignoring the 996/997 comparo and focusing on the the 997 performance, it seems that the performance delta b/t the the GT3 and the RS is small, within testing error, and any differences b/t the two cars is insignificant for all but the best drivers. If that's the case, it doesn't make such a compelling case for the RS.
I still want one though.
I still want one though.
02-23-2007, 12:26 PM
#19
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That's interesting - the 997 RS is obviously heavier and wider with more drag. Another point for the 996 RS. The US version should be even slower than the European version due to being heavier still! Porsche factory is obviously going to say its faster than the 996 version.
02-23-2007, 12:45 PM
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I guess the proof will be at the track. Once more 997 GT-3's get broken in and setup, it will be interesting to see if the 996 GT-3's will be able to keep up. My guess so far would be no.
02-23-2007, 12:58 PM
#22
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mitch,
i think different drivers would introduce more variability that any advantage the 997 have over the 996. personally i think the 997 is faster just because how porsche works. they are very methodological. for exmple look at their published ring tome for the 997s
997s with PASM sport is faster than in PASM normal by 3 seconds.
997 with sport suspensio (-20mm) is again 3 seconds faster than with PASM sport.
also power output for all their cars goes up about 30hp or so as you go up in model/trim. boxter/cayman to boster s/cayman s, then up to 997, then 997s, then 997s x51, then gt3.
i think different drivers would introduce more variability that any advantage the 997 have over the 996. personally i think the 997 is faster just because how porsche works. they are very methodological. for exmple look at their published ring tome for the 997s
997s with PASM sport is faster than in PASM normal by 3 seconds.
997 with sport suspensio (-20mm) is again 3 seconds faster than with PASM sport.
also power output for all their cars goes up about 30hp or so as you go up in model/trim. boxter/cayman to boster s/cayman s, then up to 997, then 997s, then 997s x51, then gt3.
02-23-2007, 01:01 PM
#23
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Pretty sad the way some treated his post -- actually it's very sad. If it's not what you wanna hear the source must be somehow suspect? That same source that was fine up until yesterday; can you say Z06...
What this info may show is that with a skilled driver lap times aren't gonna be that different, but for the average driver lap times will improve noticeably because of increased power and more accessible handling.
What this info may show is that with a skilled driver lap times aren't gonna be that different, but for the average driver lap times will improve noticeably because of increased power and more accessible handling.
02-23-2007, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalSolid
Pretty sad the way some treated his post -- actually it's very sad. .
02-23-2007, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalSolid
What this info may show is that with a skilled driver lap times aren't gonna be that different, but for the average driver lap times will improve noticeably because of increased power and more accessible handling.
Let's face it, PAG always moves the game forward as already stated above. It would be foolish to focus on these track times to the exclusion of all other publications. I mean, heck, Overbeek in the excellence testing showed the stock 997 was demonstrably faster than a 996 ringer.
But the consistent message from all the early reports is that the the 996 is likely quite a bargain.
02-23-2007, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by doc2s
Orabidoo, thanks for the info.
guys, whether you agree with the test data or think its worthless let us not shoot the messanger.
guys, whether you agree with the test data or think its worthless let us not shoot the messanger.
i have said this before people tend to exaggerate everything and then get dissapointed... i think the 997 is going to be faster and better than the 996 but not by that much and so will the RS....just get the car if you like it
02-23-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Orabidoo
Sport Auto Supertest, driver Horst von Saurma.
sport auto celebrates the 10th anniversary of the Supertest and leaves us with some Top 10 listings:
Nurburgring:
7:32 mins. - Porsche Carrera GT
7.33 mins. - Pagani Zonda F
7.34 mins. - Koenigsegg CCR
7:43 mins. - TechArt Porsche GT Street
7.44 mins. - Pagani Zonda S
7:46 mins. - Porsche 996 GT2
7:47 mins. - Lamborghini Murcielago LP640
7:47 mins. - Porsche 996 GT3 RS*
7:48 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3*
7:48 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3 RS*
Hockenheimring:
1:08.6 mins. - Porsche Carrera GT
1:09.8 mins. - Koenigsegg CCR
1:10.8 mins. - Pagani Zonda F
1:11.1 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3 RS*
1:11.7 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3*
1:11.8 mins. - Lamborghini Gallardo SE
1:11.8 mins. - Lamborghini Murcielago LP640*
1:11.8 mins. - Pagani Zonda S
1.11.8 mins. - Porsche 996 GT3 RS*
1.12.0 mins. - Lamborghini Murielago
* indcates semi-slicks
Source: sportauto
sport auto celebrates the 10th anniversary of the Supertest and leaves us with some Top 10 listings:
Nurburgring:
7:32 mins. - Porsche Carrera GT
7.33 mins. - Pagani Zonda F
7.34 mins. - Koenigsegg CCR
7:43 mins. - TechArt Porsche GT Street
7.44 mins. - Pagani Zonda S
7:46 mins. - Porsche 996 GT2
7:47 mins. - Lamborghini Murcielago LP640
7:47 mins. - Porsche 996 GT3 RS*
7:48 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3*
7:48 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3 RS*
Hockenheimring:
1:08.6 mins. - Porsche Carrera GT
1:09.8 mins. - Koenigsegg CCR
1:10.8 mins. - Pagani Zonda F
1:11.1 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3 RS*
1:11.7 mins. - Porsche 997 GT3*
1:11.8 mins. - Lamborghini Gallardo SE
1:11.8 mins. - Lamborghini Murcielago LP640*
1:11.8 mins. - Pagani Zonda S
1.11.8 mins. - Porsche 996 GT3 RS*
1.12.0 mins. - Lamborghini Murielago
* indcates semi-slicks
Source: sportauto
The Ring:
7:48 vs 7:47 = 0.2% slower
Hockenheim:
1:11.1 vs 1:11.8 = 0.9% faster
This data, when viewed with the real-world scale, indicates a level of equality between the RS cars of the two generations. The immediate conflict (which led some to believe that Orabidoo was trying to start a fight?) is that the new generation should be significantly - by a margin that cannnot get lost in the decimal places - faster than the one it replaces, according to Porsche's deeply ingrained continual-improvement culture.
I call for more data.
I have a deep curiosity about Porsche's highly sophisticated adaptive engine management and adaptive suspension technologies and when testing anomalies like this issue pop up my mind jumps back to them. The 997 may have variables that the 996 does not.
Originally Posted by doc2s
Orabidoo, thanks for the info.
guys, whether you agree with the test data or think its worthless let us not shoot the messanger.
guys, whether you agree with the test data or think its worthless let us not shoot the messanger.
I was going to post this also.