The Lease thread caused me to .....
02-21-2007, 03:31 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
quit sucking up for customers! 
02-21-2007, 03:48 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Paul523
That should NEVER occur, and should never be tolerated if it does happen.
I've bought or leased 4 Porsche and BMW cars since 2003, never have I once told my dealer HOW I was going to pay for the car until delivery day, with price already set in stone weeks or months earlier.
Twice I did conventional financing-- on my 997S I got % rates quoted over the phone from credit union and several banks the day before delivery, then I phoned the dealer's finance guy the morning of scheduled delivery & told him I had 5.4% offered from USBank, he called me back two hours later & said they would match the rate, so I went thru the dealer--done deal, picked up the car that afternoon. Early loan-buyout penalty, doc fee might have deviated by small $100 or so from one loan to the other but no other tricks.
Same with a lease, go in there armed with money factors & residuals via leasecompare & a couple of banks (on my leased M5 it took a few days for the banks to confirm all of the particulars) and the dealer finance mgr miraculously found an in-house leasing bank/affiliate offer that matched my best counter.
Greg, sorry to hear they bulldogged you on your 3.
I've bought or leased 4 Porsche and BMW cars since 2003, never have I once told my dealer HOW I was going to pay for the car until delivery day, with price already set in stone weeks or months earlier.
Twice I did conventional financing-- on my 997S I got % rates quoted over the phone from credit union and several banks the day before delivery, then I phoned the dealer's finance guy the morning of scheduled delivery & told him I had 5.4% offered from USBank, he called me back two hours later & said they would match the rate, so I went thru the dealer--done deal, picked up the car that afternoon. Early loan-buyout penalty, doc fee might have deviated by small $100 or so from one loan to the other but no other tricks.
Same with a lease, go in there armed with money factors & residuals via leasecompare & a couple of banks (on my leased M5 it took a few days for the banks to confirm all of the particulars) and the dealer finance mgr miraculously found an in-house leasing bank/affiliate offer that matched my best counter.
Greg, sorry to hear they bulldogged you on your 3.
All the above is what I normally would have done, except that
1] they made it sound like they were giving me the best finance interest rate over and over again. "Man, your score is like a BRICK, it is super easy to give you the deal."
2] I bougth the car in a rush, and skipped the due diligence I should have.
3] I should never have trusted them.
02-21-2007, 09:17 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by eclou
The F&I guy got a real sad look on his face when I "threatened" him with a check on my TT. His response was that the tax credits would then vanish. I felt like I was wrestling with a pig in Crisco. It's only money right?
02-21-2007, 10:04 PM
#35
Originally Posted by crispenigl
Thanks!!!
All the above is what I normally would have done, except that
1] they made it sound like they were giving me the best finance interest rate over and over again. "Man, your score is like a BRICK, it is super easy to give you the deal."
2] I bougth the car in a rush, and skipped the due diligence I should have.
3] I should never have trusted them.
All the above is what I normally would have done, except that
1] they made it sound like they were giving me the best finance interest rate over and over again. "Man, your score is like a BRICK, it is super easy to give you the deal."
2] I bougth the car in a rush, and skipped the due diligence I should have.
3] I should never have trusted them.
02-21-2007, 10:55 PM
#36
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sales price, leasing, financing, front end, back end, i dont care. i understand and respect dealers are there to make money. i am just saying that buyers should know that dealers DO make $ on financing/leasing. as such, buyers should haggle on those terms as well as sales price.
02-21-2007, 10:58 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
Why couldn't you have financed the car and then right a check for the payoff a month later? Does the F&I get a chargeback? If so, who cares?
02-22-2007, 12:02 AM
#38
Originally Posted by crispenigl
Thanks!!!
All the above is what I normally would have done, except that
1] they made it sound like they were giving me the best finance interest rate over and over again. "Man, your score is like a BRICK, it is super easy to give you the deal."
2] I bougth the car in a rush, and skipped the due diligence I should have.
3] I should never have trusted them.
All the above is what I normally would have done, except that
1] they made it sound like they were giving me the best finance interest rate over and over again. "Man, your score is like a BRICK, it is super easy to give you the deal."
2] I bougth the car in a rush, and skipped the due diligence I should have.
3] I should never have trusted them.
If I were in your shoes, I'd pursue that legal action, contact the public information person and see what you can get in the way of leverage.
02-22-2007, 12:53 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by ///Mous3
You are joking; right? If you are not, wouldn't be like financing a car for 6 years (if you take 3 year loan for the $70K residual)??? On top of that, the Interest on used cars are like 7%+ even at FICO 750+.
I put $15k Down on a 3 year lease. Fees were one months rent. I can pay it off at any time. No mileage restrictions, payment is $1200 a month. when the lease is up I sell the car to another company and depreciate it accordingly. The Car will be worth way more than $70K when I am done with it. I assume $80K Put that back toward your 3 years worth of payments and the cost to drive is fairly resonable. Way better than a straight finance in my opinion.
It is what work for me. Not the same for everyone else.
I am not sure where you guy's are getting interest rates under 6%. Maybe I am out of touch but everyone in Oregon is paying deep into the 7% range.
bottom line, Lease it if you can write it off. fianance it if you can't. Writing a check for a depreciating asset makes no sense to me. take the $120K and buy a peice of property. The appreciation alone will pay for your lease payment.
02-22-2007, 01:04 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by RS 197
I won't debate financing with you. I have a pretty good handle on mine. The reason I leased the car is one of my companies needed the write off. It's not hard to figure out the advantages of Leasing when you can write it off through a company.
I put $15k Down on a 3 year lease. Fees were one months rent. I can pay it off at any time. No mileage restrictions, payment is $1200 a month. when the lease is up I sell the car to another company and depreciate it accordingly. The Car will be worth way more than $70K when I am done with it. I assume $80K Put that back toward your 3 years worth of payments and the cost to drive is fairly resonable. Way better than a straight finance in my opinion.
It is what work for me. Not the same for everyone else.
I am not sure where you guy's are getting interest rates under 6%. Maybe I am out of touch but everyone in Oregon is paying deep into the 7% range.
bottom line, Lease it if you can write it off. fianance it if you can't. Writing a check for a depreciating asset makes no sense to me. take the $120K and buy a peice of property. The appreciation alone will pay for your lease payment.
I put $15k Down on a 3 year lease. Fees were one months rent. I can pay it off at any time. No mileage restrictions, payment is $1200 a month. when the lease is up I sell the car to another company and depreciate it accordingly. The Car will be worth way more than $70K when I am done with it. I assume $80K Put that back toward your 3 years worth of payments and the cost to drive is fairly resonable. Way better than a straight finance in my opinion.
It is what work for me. Not the same for everyone else.
I am not sure where you guy's are getting interest rates under 6%. Maybe I am out of touch but everyone in Oregon is paying deep into the 7% range.
bottom line, Lease it if you can write it off. fianance it if you can't. Writing a check for a depreciating asset makes no sense to me. take the $120K and buy a peice of property. The appreciation alone will pay for your lease payment.
What reason do I give to IRS that I need business expense of $2000 per month on a high-end Porsche; not just a Porsche, it *is* a $120K+ GeeTee Three!
Also, what $120K property have appreciation rate of roughly $24K per year to cover $2000/month lease payment?
02-22-2007, 01:20 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by ///Mous3
It was a honest question. Now, may be I will learn somthing new here... Here are my questions;
What reason do I give to IRS that I need business expense of $2000 per month on a high-end Porsche; not just a Porsche, it *is* a $120K+ GeeTee Three!
Also, what $120K property have appreciation rate of roughly $24K per year to cover $2000/month lease payment?
What reason do I give to IRS that I need business expense of $2000 per month on a high-end Porsche; not just a Porsche, it *is* a $120K+ GeeTee Three!
Also, what $120K property have appreciation rate of roughly $24K per year to cover $2000/month lease payment?
And if you get one that has lower residuals yet about the same overall payment as ones with higher residuals because of $$$ factor difference, then at the end of the lease, you can purchase it as an asset and depreciate it.
Double dipping is great.
In the mean time, that 120K, even with a modest mutual fund, will make you 12K a year. I actually have some funds that made me 30% last year. But either way, you still have your 120K plus whatever yield that it's making you.
With regards to the whole leasing expensive car thing for business, for many business, it adds instant credibility. And you might just run into fellow car nuts in the office building where you existing clients are and get even more potential business.
But, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, and DOCUMENT. You must be able to document the miles. And in the service industry where we bill for our time, it's quite simple with daily timesheet entries.
02-22-2007, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ///Mous3
It was a honest question. Now, may be I will learn somthing new here... Here are my questions;
What reason do I give to IRS that I need business expense of $2000 per month on a high-end Porsche; not just a Porsche, it *is* a $120K+ GeeTee Three!
Also, what $120K property have appreciation rate of roughly $24K per year to cover $2000/month lease payment?
What reason do I give to IRS that I need business expense of $2000 per month on a high-end Porsche; not just a Porsche, it *is* a $120K+ GeeTee Three!
Also, what $120K property have appreciation rate of roughly $24K per year to cover $2000/month lease payment?
As far as the Real Estate issue. If you were in it you would get it. It is getting harder in todays world but there are still plenty of oportunities out there. You have to consider your Cash on Cash return. If someone really had $120K in cash. It makes way more sense to invest that $$. for example you could take that $120K, put 20% down on 6 $100K houses. rent them for a break even, pay them off in 20 years. Take your tax breaks and at the end of the day your $120K has turned into $600K in real estate Plus appreciation. lets be conservative. 5% a year. That is $30K a year. Times that by 20 years. There is another $600k. Then add in the deppreciation............
With a little work that $120k you spent on your GT3 just cost you over 1.2 Million Bucks............ At that rate you could lease 4 $1,200 a month cars and still have $$ left over. That is the way I look at it
02-22-2007, 04:49 AM
#44
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by RS 197
bottom line, Lease it if you can write it off. fianance it if you can't. Writing a check for a depreciating asset makes no sense to me.
take the $120K and buy a peice of property. The appreciation alone will pay for your lease payment.
if you have $120k in cash and you are buying both a $120k car and a $120k piece of real estate how does it benefit you to finance the car as opposed to the real estate if leasing is not an option?
The IRS has no problem with a $1200 lease payment as a write off. As long as it is justified. Ask your accountant if your situation justifies it.
your accountant told you a porsche gt3 could be justified for your real estate business? are the other nine porsches justified as well?
the irs doesnt have a problem w/ anything until they audit you.
If someone really had $120K in cash. It makes way more sense to invest that $$.
why? if a lease in not an option and you are going to finance either the car or the real estate?
for example you could take that $120K, put 20% down on 6 $100K houses. rent them for a break even, pay them off in 20 years.
that would be an optimistic, best case scenario dependent on the economy not taking a nose dive.
Take your tax breaks and at the end of the day your $120K has turned into $600K in real estate Plus appreciation. lets be conservative. 5% a year. That is $30K a year. Times that by 20 years. There is another $600k. Then add in the deppreciation............
With a little work that $120k you spent on your GT3 just cost you over 1.2 Million Bucks............
no it didn't! you ever heard of net present value?
At that rate you could lease 4 $1,200 a month cars and still have $$ left over. That is the way I look at it
take the $120K and buy a peice of property. The appreciation alone will pay for your lease payment.
if you have $120k in cash and you are buying both a $120k car and a $120k piece of real estate how does it benefit you to finance the car as opposed to the real estate if leasing is not an option?
The IRS has no problem with a $1200 lease payment as a write off. As long as it is justified. Ask your accountant if your situation justifies it.
your accountant told you a porsche gt3 could be justified for your real estate business? are the other nine porsches justified as well?
the irs doesnt have a problem w/ anything until they audit you.
If someone really had $120K in cash. It makes way more sense to invest that $$.
why? if a lease in not an option and you are going to finance either the car or the real estate?
for example you could take that $120K, put 20% down on 6 $100K houses. rent them for a break even, pay them off in 20 years.
that would be an optimistic, best case scenario dependent on the economy not taking a nose dive.
Take your tax breaks and at the end of the day your $120K has turned into $600K in real estate Plus appreciation. lets be conservative. 5% a year. That is $30K a year. Times that by 20 years. There is another $600k. Then add in the deppreciation............
With a little work that $120k you spent on your GT3 just cost you over 1.2 Million Bucks............
no it didn't! you ever heard of net present value?
At that rate you could lease 4 $1,200 a month cars and still have $$ left over. That is the way I look at it
Originally Posted by stuka
With regards to the whole leasing expensive car thing for business, for many business, it adds instant credibility.
i need to get into that field!
02-22-2007, 05:32 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by icon
what kind of business does having a porsche gt2 "add instant credibility"?
i need to get into that field!
i need to get into that field!
In my business, though not always true, guy #1 usually has his stuff together, while guy #2 is the one that's likely to be without any formal training and can go under due to lack of business skills or techincal chops. Anything that you can do to distance yourself from the hacks is an edge that gets you closer to the $$$.
I fortunately also have some car buff clients that like to talk shop, so it works out.