icon

probably showing my mechanical ignorance, (wouldnt be the first time)
but how come the cup and rsr's get the seq. shftrs and not the gt3 and RS?
surely it can't be just high cost!?
if so, how come motorcycles have had seq. shftrs forever?
also why are they going to paddle shift as opposed to a cup car / rsr type sequential?
and then there is the rs spyder w/ paddle type shift on the steering wheel sequential!?

khaug

My take: Cup and RSR cars are racecars. That's a whole different thing than a "racecar for the street" (i.e. GT3/RS).

I've driven a bunch of cars with sequential shift/DSG transmissions, incoudiong several BMW SMGs. The only 'unconventional' tranny I've liked is the VW DSG. The BMW SMG sux, IMHO!

Racecars sacrifice all for better lap times. Street cars have other priorities. I'm happy with the 6-speed in my 997 GT3.

ssarchi

Sabine's GT2 that she drove on the 'Ring had a shifter that was like a rally car: a floor mounted lever that when pushed forward provided upshifts and when pushed backwards downshifted.

What is this called and what cars use this as opposed to the steering wheel mounted dual paddle shifters????

krC2S

that' a manual sequential shifter both this and paddle shifters have upshift and sownshift selections and not 1st 2nd etc that's why they are called sequential because of how the gearbox is mechanically designed

the auomanual systems lik DSG, SMG, f1 f-cars are sequential with a control system that controls the clutch engagement instead of still having the clutch as in the cup cars..though an automatic the feel is more mechanial and manual like compared to conventional automatics

also be aware that there are several car makers that do not have sequential transmissions and just added paddle shifters on their regular automatics

paddle shifters as just a mechanism for selecting gears not a type of tranny so you can still have a manual gearbox and use paddle shifters advantage is you don't get your hands off the wheel

i would love to see sequential/ paddle shifter type gerabox in gt3's but with a clutch!

supercup

Having a 997 Cup I can assure you that transmission is great for the track, but is not suited for the street. As stated above it will benefit you for lap times, but is a big compromise for street driving. You simply don't need it for the street and probably would not want to live with it. Plus that tranmission has not proved to be 100% durable (which is a must for warranty reasons for a street car). It is designed to be used when driving a car at max pace, and does not really like to be cruised around.

That transmission was a $30K upgrade on the RSR in 2005. It was added as standard in the Cup in 2005 (997 release), they increased the price of the car and took off some of the prior standard equipment. Overall the car price went up from 996 to 997 from $118K to $133K (after you net out the $9K spare package we get in USA @ price of $142K). You got new shifter and Motec and you lost adj. shocks.

So would you pay a $20K +/- premium to have a transmission that is faster shifting at the track but not very good on the street? Would you take it without a warranty (if so you can order it and add it to your car)?

I drive an M5 daily and while it is not perfect and has some flaws, if you drive it like a manual (most get in and drive it like and automatic, then complain it is not), it does most things well. It is not a great parking lot transmission (doesn't make good slow speed shifts and is slow to go from forward to reverse etc.). However that being said I would never trade my SMG M5 for the recently released 6 speed manual.

Until Porsche can develop an SMG type street transmission we will not see one. When you look at their biggest market (USA), the M5 owners demanded a 6 speed after the SMG. The SMG got bashed in the mags, so why take that chance when there are 2 or 5 or 5 buyers for every GT car they produce?

JCM

ssarchi

still a bit confused:

Sabine's car with manual sequential shifting had a clutch? So what is the advantage? Do rally cars with that type of trans have clutches? If she had a clutch, then why the different "pattern"?

supercup- are you suggesting that sabine's gt2 had the same trans as your cupcar?

SS

///Mous3

How long did you "try" the SMG? Depending on who is instructing you, there is a very fine line between "sux" and oh-mi-gawd. SMG certainly have a learning curve.

carrering

WRC cars still have a clutch pedal. the shifter itself is sequential and placed as close to the steering wheel as possible so drivers hand is off the wheel for the shortest ammount possible.

I have owned and driven an SMG M3 since I ordered it new back in 2002. I have put quite a bit of track time into the car and I can say on the track its very fun to drive. There are places where you can take advantage of a quick gear change where its just too difficult to do with the clutch pedal.

Since its a street car, the SMG is far from perfect for that purpose. You learn to drive it smoother but its never as smooth as a traditional manual. its especially cumbersome at stop signs. shifting slowly from 2nd to 1st is awkward as is starting off in a slow manner such as driving through the neighborhood.

I think the dual clutch transmissions are the way to go and BMW will likely move to that route in their next generation of cars.

Myself, I'm looking forward to the good 'ol fashioned manual in the GT3 :-)
would I get SMG again? probably not. DSG?? maybe :-D

supercup

I saw the photos of the GT2 in question, but I am not sure what tranmission it was. Ruf also offered a "clutchless" manual tranmission on its top level cars in the 964 variant - but due to problems and cost went away from it in the 993 and 996 and adopted the Porsche triptronic as the 6 speed alternative.

JCM

supercup

My exerience with the M3 SMG in a 2003 Convt. was exactly the same at noted in this post. My experience with the M5 is that the M5 version is far superior/improved from the M3 version. But in parking lots and at stop signs it is not perfect. Improvements are being made, but there is still a ways to go.

JCM

prg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the cup car box is a dog box (ie no synchros). Not really an option for a street driven car.

ssarchi

so wrc cars have that trans to keep their hands closer to the wheel? that's it?

would the wrc type be a "sequential manual transmission"?
or is that title reserved for clutchless paddles shifting?

what is a dual clutch transmission? i thought one was enough???????

anyone else with some knowledge about Sabine's GT2
for those who have never seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D69pNk5MGYk

icon

i don't understand why it would be unsuitable for street driving?
motorcycles use it . . . but w/ hand working clutch and foot working shift.
if it's not reliable why would they use it for racing?

also did some gt2's come w/ manual sequentials like sabine's in the vid?
(if it is manual)

yes, it is a dog type manual transmission w/ straight cut gears.
why is this not an option for street driving?

it's nice to see at least one person as confused as i am on the subject.
if it was "clutchless paddles shifting" it wouldnt be a manual sequential.

carrering

dog gears means no synchronizers. for street use you could wear them out within 10K miles and have to replace the gears which requires pulling the transmission out. too costly for a street driven car.

WRC cars have a clutch pedal. The transmission shifts sequentially.

krC2S

a transmission with just upshift and downshift selection paddle or lever w/ or w/out clutch is sequential

that's just how the gearbox layout/design is

ones wihtout a clutch like SMG,F1,DSG do not have a clutch pedal but an actual clutch in the tranny and use a control system to do the clutch engagement instead of you

DSG is same as SMG f1 etc but has two clutch disks but still no clutch pedal