Sport Auto Results on the 997 GT3
11-02-2006, 12:02 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by NJ-GT
Definitely, the MPSC as we know it, is not the same tire installed on the 997 GT3. Michelin has created a new MPSC with less grip in dry pavement, and more grip in wet pavement.
11-02-2006, 01:42 PM
#17
NJ,
I think you are reaching here.
Do a search on the 996GT3 lap times and you will find that it is 7:54.
Reaching or not, if you want to be fair, the same driver that drove that Manthey car should drive the 997GT3.
Oak the Cup tires on the new GT3's ARE NOT the same ones as the old cup tires. The new ones have a new compound that sacrifices dry grip for wet grip.
Bottom line still is that the new car is 6 seconds faster than the old one, UNTIL proven otherwise.
To be honest, it all sounds like a bit of sour grapes for guys not on the list for a new RS, if you ask me.
I think you are reaching here.
Do a search on the 996GT3 lap times and you will find that it is 7:54.
Reaching or not, if you want to be fair, the same driver that drove that Manthey car should drive the 997GT3.
Oak the Cup tires on the new GT3's ARE NOT the same ones as the old cup tires. The new ones have a new compound that sacrifices dry grip for wet grip.
Bottom line still is that the new car is 6 seconds faster than the old one, UNTIL proven otherwise.
To be honest, it all sounds like a bit of sour grapes for guys not on the list for a new RS, if you ask me.
11-02-2006, 01:51 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
I love sour grapes. Personally, the RS isn't my cup o' tea.
I'm sure the new cups are much gripier than the old sports. 6 sec worth? In the real world it's so close it's a wash. Depends on the driver.
I'm sure the new cups are much gripier than the old sports. 6 sec worth? In the real world it's so close it's a wash. Depends on the driver.
11-02-2006, 02:09 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
The 7:54 was done with Pilot Sports 2 street tires by Horst von Saurma. You can't compare a car with MPS2 tires against another car on MPSC (DOT race tires). I'm not sure if you have experienced the grip difference between the MPS2 and the MPSC at the track.
Do you think the E46 M3 CSL is 32 secs faster than the E46 M3? The M3 CSL ran MPSC, and the M3 ran street tires.
The Porsche N-spec MPSC is still a race compound tire, faster than any street tire. A stock 996 GT3 ran 7:49 (Lucas Luhr) and a stock 996 GT3 RS 7:43 (Walter Rohl) using Pirelli Corsa System (DOT race tires).
I'm not surprised about the poor performance on the new 997 GT3 compared to the 996 GT3. All the acceleration and braking figures look similar between both cars. Don't forget that the fastest time around the Ring for a 997S was for the version without PASM. The PASM car was slower, and that might have something to do with the 997 GT3 times at the Ring.
Do you think the E46 M3 CSL is 32 secs faster than the E46 M3? The M3 CSL ran MPSC, and the M3 ran street tires.
The Porsche N-spec MPSC is still a race compound tire, faster than any street tire. A stock 996 GT3 ran 7:49 (Lucas Luhr) and a stock 996 GT3 RS 7:43 (Walter Rohl) using Pirelli Corsa System (DOT race tires).
I'm not surprised about the poor performance on the new 997 GT3 compared to the 996 GT3. All the acceleration and braking figures look similar between both cars. Don't forget that the fastest time around the Ring for a 997S was for the version without PASM. The PASM car was slower, and that might have something to do with the 997 GT3 times at the Ring.
11-02-2006, 03:42 PM
#21
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From the info available it seems that the new GT3 has no real performance advantage over the 996 GT3, and is just two seconds faster than an M3 CSL. This is a little dissapointing.
However, the 997 GT3 is a better everyday car than its predesescor. But if you want four seats and a trunk practicality, plus fast lap times, the CSL still looks hard to beat.
However, the 997 GT3 is a better everyday car than its predesescor. But if you want four seats and a trunk practicality, plus fast lap times, the CSL still looks hard to beat.
11-02-2006, 03:57 PM
#22
People in this post have said that the M3 CSL did it with cup tires and further that the cup tires are worth "5-10" seconds.
The 997GT3 DID NOT USE Cup tires. They are using a new style cup tire for road use that has a compound that SACRIFICES dry grip for wet grip. Porsche would not put a cup tire as stock on a road car else people will be killing themsevels in the wet.
If you want to compare you have to run the 997GT3 with the exact cup tires that the CSL ran with.
Even with that currently the 997GT3 beats the CSL with sub-par tires when compared to the cup tires that are fitted on the M3CSL. So by deduction in this string the 997GT3 should be even 5 seconds faster? if it is fitted with Cup tires.
The 997GT3 DID NOT USE Cup tires. They are using a new style cup tire for road use that has a compound that SACRIFICES dry grip for wet grip. Porsche would not put a cup tire as stock on a road car else people will be killing themsevels in the wet.
If you want to compare you have to run the 997GT3 with the exact cup tires that the CSL ran with.
Even with that currently the 997GT3 beats the CSL with sub-par tires when compared to the cup tires that are fitted on the M3CSL. So by deduction in this string the 997GT3 should be even 5 seconds faster? if it is fitted with Cup tires.
11-02-2006, 04:51 PM
#24
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I found this on rennteam.com
'Most tests I've read show that the New Cups (with better Wet performance) are about 7 seconds per lap faster than PS2's on the 'Ring... '
--------------------
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs)
96 993 C2 Coupe Polar Silver/Flamenco Red
'Most tests I've read show that the New Cups (with better Wet performance) are about 7 seconds per lap faster than PS2's on the 'Ring... '
--------------------
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs)
96 993 C2 Coupe Polar Silver/Flamenco Red
11-02-2006, 05:00 PM
#25
You guys are this close to answering your own question.
Yes the 997GT3 with cup tires will be unbeatable by any road car of similar hp and weight, and even by some road cars with more HP.
As it stands the 997GT3 with the tires it has is 7 seconds faster than the 430 at the ring and the 430 has 75 more hp.
You guys are a tough crowd. Not sure what eles you guys want out of a ROAD car - to me the car is pretty phenomenal.
Yes the 997GT3 with cup tires will be unbeatable by any road car of similar hp and weight, and even by some road cars with more HP.
As it stands the 997GT3 with the tires it has is 7 seconds faster than the 430 at the ring and the 430 has 75 more hp.
You guys are a tough crowd. Not sure what eles you guys want out of a ROAD car - to me the car is pretty phenomenal.
11-02-2006, 07:58 PM
#29
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Don't mean to talk down the old GT3, which is awesome. Just find it strange how anyone could want to still talk down the new one after all the reports and the deliveries that have been made in Europe. Everyone who's tried it loves it. Some people who haven't tried it don't. And it IS faster. Porsche wouldn't have released it if it wasn't. And it's not all down to tires.
11-03-2006, 02:21 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by JFT
Don't worry. It's faster, better and prettier!
I am not yet convinced that the new car is faster on the Ring with the same tyres for professional drivers.
But average track users may find the traction control safety-net of the new car allows them to explore the cars limits with greater confidence - and thus drive it more quickly than the old GT3.