Has anyone received a reply from their letter?
08-19-2006, 11:35 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ltc
Having worked with the folks from PAG over the past few years, I'll say it yet again:
Marketing now runs PAG under Dr W. Engineering takes a back seat to all matters.
If PCNA tells PAG that producing a (single) sunroof version will save money AND sell the exact same number of units, then PAG (marketing) directs PAG (engineering and production) to built it.
I was shocked how many people at PAG not only never worked on the aircooled Porsches, but how few even knew the models. The older employees will (privately) tell you that the company has changed forever under Dr W's 10 year plan.
Long time customer, enthusiast....means absolutely nothing under the new marketing plan and demographics studies.
Produce the vehicles against the plan (100K/year goal), as directed/specified by Marketing, for as much profit as possible, to as many new buyers as possible, the resulting 'overproduction' and customer turnover will provide an ample supply of CPO vehicles (remember back when....there were no CPO vehicles/programme), thus adding a second layer of 'new' Porsche customers.
Talk to your long term Porsche dealers.....I'm sure they're noticed a different in the customers and the company.
Yes, I know, cancelled orders from long time customers will get their attention......NOT.
Believe me, every cancelled 997GT3 order from an 'enthusiast' or 'long term owner' WILL be sold, there WILL be a second production run and those WILL be sold. Every letter sent to Peter or Dr W. will be smugly ignored, as I'm afraid you are becoming the minority in the demographic model.
Marketing now runs PAG under Dr W. Engineering takes a back seat to all matters.
If PCNA tells PAG that producing a (single) sunroof version will save money AND sell the exact same number of units, then PAG (marketing) directs PAG (engineering and production) to built it.
I was shocked how many people at PAG not only never worked on the aircooled Porsches, but how few even knew the models. The older employees will (privately) tell you that the company has changed forever under Dr W's 10 year plan.
Long time customer, enthusiast....means absolutely nothing under the new marketing plan and demographics studies.
Produce the vehicles against the plan (100K/year goal), as directed/specified by Marketing, for as much profit as possible, to as many new buyers as possible, the resulting 'overproduction' and customer turnover will provide an ample supply of CPO vehicles (remember back when....there were no CPO vehicles/programme), thus adding a second layer of 'new' Porsche customers.
Talk to your long term Porsche dealers.....I'm sure they're noticed a different in the customers and the company.
Yes, I know, cancelled orders from long time customers will get their attention......NOT.
Believe me, every cancelled 997GT3 order from an 'enthusiast' or 'long term owner' WILL be sold, there WILL be a second production run and those WILL be sold. Every letter sent to Peter or Dr W. will be smugly ignored, as I'm afraid you are becoming the minority in the demographic model.
arent our complaints and cancellations proof that a sunroof equipped GT3 will sell less units?
08-19-2006, 11:35 AM
#17
The Rebel
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Itc,
I appreciate your input. Whether I like it or not what you've said makes sense. It's unfortunate but they not so much as forgot about the enthusiasts and the type of cars that made Porsche what it is but as you stated, many don't even know the company's history.
Still I believe that you don't do anything half way and therefore have followed through with taking this issue to PAG.
I appreciate your input. Whether I like it or not what you've said makes sense. It's unfortunate but they not so much as forgot about the enthusiasts and the type of cars that made Porsche what it is but as you stated, many don't even know the company's history.
Still I believe that you don't do anything half way and therefore have followed through with taking this issue to PAG.
08-19-2006, 11:53 AM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Jeff,
Itc makes sense. When Porsche built cars for the enthusiasts they almost went under. They are a publicly heald business. Like it or not, the ONLY reason for a business to exist is to make as much of a profit possible. How many letters did they get 30? How many orders were cancelled 1-2-5? They are ot going to change their decisions because of the small number of us that are whinning about this.
Itc makes sense. When Porsche built cars for the enthusiasts they almost went under. They are a publicly heald business. Like it or not, the ONLY reason for a business to exist is to make as much of a profit possible. How many letters did they get 30? How many orders were cancelled 1-2-5? They are ot going to change their decisions because of the small number of us that are whinning about this.
08-19-2006, 11:57 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by roberga
Jeff,
Itc makes sense. When Porsche built cars for the enthusiasts they almost went under. They are a publicly heald business. Like it or not, the ONLY reason for a business to exist is to make as much of a profit possible. How many letters did they get 30? How many orders were cancelled 1-2-5? They are ot going to change their decisions because of the small number of us that are whinning about this.
Itc makes sense. When Porsche built cars for the enthusiasts they almost went under. They are a publicly heald business. Like it or not, the ONLY reason for a business to exist is to make as much of a profit possible. How many letters did they get 30? How many orders were cancelled 1-2-5? They are ot going to change their decisions because of the small number of us that are whinning about this.
08-19-2006, 12:05 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
cancelled orders only mean something if there is nobody to take the spot over. Actually, Porsche would rather have you cancell your order to make room for someone that will buy every option they can stuff in the car.
08-19-2006, 12:46 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by ltc
Having worked with the folks from PAG over the past few years, I'll say it yet again:
Marketing now runs PAG under Dr W. Engineering takes a back seat to all matters.
If PCNA tells PAG that producing a (single) sunroof version will save money AND sell the exact same number of units, then PAG (marketing) directs PAG (engineering and production) to built it.
I was shocked how many people at PAG not only never worked on the aircooled Porsches, but how few even knew the models. The older employees will (privately) tell you that the company has changed forever under Dr W's 10 year plan.
Long time customer, enthusiast....means absolutely nothing under the new marketing plan and demographics studies.
Produce the vehicles against the plan (100K/year goal), as directed/specified by Marketing, for as much profit as possible, to as many new buyers as possible, the resulting 'overproduction' and customer turnover will provide an ample supply of CPO vehicles (remember back when....there were no CPO vehicles/programme), thus adding a second layer of 'new' Porsche customers.
Talk to your long term Porsche dealers.....I'm sure they're noticed a different in the customers and the company.
Yes, I know, cancelled orders from long time customers will get their attention......NOT.
Believe me, every cancelled 997GT3 order from an 'enthusiast' or 'long term owner' WILL be sold, there WILL be a second production run and those WILL be sold. Every letter sent to Peter or Dr W. will be smugly ignored, as I'm afraid you are becoming the minority in the demographic model.
Marketing now runs PAG under Dr W. Engineering takes a back seat to all matters.
If PCNA tells PAG that producing a (single) sunroof version will save money AND sell the exact same number of units, then PAG (marketing) directs PAG (engineering and production) to built it.
I was shocked how many people at PAG not only never worked on the aircooled Porsches, but how few even knew the models. The older employees will (privately) tell you that the company has changed forever under Dr W's 10 year plan.
Long time customer, enthusiast....means absolutely nothing under the new marketing plan and demographics studies.
Produce the vehicles against the plan (100K/year goal), as directed/specified by Marketing, for as much profit as possible, to as many new buyers as possible, the resulting 'overproduction' and customer turnover will provide an ample supply of CPO vehicles (remember back when....there were no CPO vehicles/programme), thus adding a second layer of 'new' Porsche customers.
Talk to your long term Porsche dealers.....I'm sure they're noticed a different in the customers and the company.
Yes, I know, cancelled orders from long time customers will get their attention......NOT.
Believe me, every cancelled 997GT3 order from an 'enthusiast' or 'long term owner' WILL be sold, there WILL be a second production run and those WILL be sold. Every letter sent to Peter or Dr W. will be smugly ignored, as I'm afraid you are becoming the minority in the demographic model.
08-19-2006, 01:32 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Sad but I guess true... but eventually Porsche AG will lose market share if they keep this up. How much longer can the ' 911 icon ' hold up as a dream car if the pedigree is lost.
From my experience many buyers of the 911 family are older adults who have a family and the means to acquire this toy. What if they tell their children the 997, 998 are not worthy of being called a 911, then the children buy some other toy and the Porsche sales chain in that family is broken. That is a loss of sales.
Many owners I have talked to who "always wanted a 911" and finally purchased one did not buy the latest and greatest "new 911".
- Some said a 964 was the newest 911 model they considered 'worthy' due to the lines of the car (especially front fenders).
- Others thought the 993 was still good enough.
- The 996 got the least votes, cause of the lines and water cooling, but the GT3 was a positive exception
- 997 no data other than most agree body curves are better than those of the 996
From my experience many buyers of the 911 family are older adults who have a family and the means to acquire this toy. What if they tell their children the 997, 998 are not worthy of being called a 911, then the children buy some other toy and the Porsche sales chain in that family is broken. That is a loss of sales.
Many owners I have talked to who "always wanted a 911" and finally purchased one did not buy the latest and greatest "new 911".
- Some said a 964 was the newest 911 model they considered 'worthy' due to the lines of the car (especially front fenders).
- Others thought the 993 was still good enough.
- The 996 got the least votes, cause of the lines and water cooling, but the GT3 was a positive exception
- 997 no data other than most agree body curves are better than those of the 996
Last edited by enthusiast; 08-19-2006 at 08:08 PM.
08-19-2006, 02:18 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by icon
oh, so you know porsche plans for the next four years?
accurate not!
accurate not!
Yes, I know the PAG roadmap for the next 4 years (actually thru 2011), it is necessary for me to do the work that I am asked to perform.
During trips to Germany (and due to personal/health reasons, I have cut down significantly on my travel), I am often in contact with test mules, prototypes and design study vehicles (interestingly enough, almost always full black, always delivered in the middle of the night and seldom driven while we work on them)
(I remember going out to dinner with DaimlerChrysler engineers one night before the public unveiling of the Maybach, we took a Maybach mule to dinner in Esslingen and I called my wife from the rear seat and asked her to guess what I was driving that night; I recall seeing the Cayenne prototype for the first time while it was still a rumor, but I digress)
It is pointless to continue along this path; suffice it to say that I am open an honest in my posts.
08-19-2006, 02:20 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by dark knight
arent our complaints and cancellations proof that a sunroof equipped GT3 will sell less units?
08-19-2006, 05:22 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Im also going to call B.S. on the crash testing explanation I doubt they crashed extra cars for this in the past and if they have to in the present then how about applying for a ...... variance, might this be a better solution then just throwing the roof at us all and telling us take it or leave it, if this is true why is it you can self import cars how does RUF sell cars without sunroof?
08-19-2006, 05:31 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by dark knight
lamenting the passing of the real 911 without a sunroof the 996, in 1999 could anyone ever imagine people someday saying keep your 996 its the real thing compared to the new car
i wish they would at least change the model no. so we don't have to keep hearing about when the "real 911" or the "real gt3" died.
Originally Posted by dark knight
Im also going to call B.S. on the crash testing explanation I doubt they crashed extra cars for this in the past and if they have to in the present then how about applying for a ...... variance, might this be a better solution then just throwing the roof at us all and telling us take it or leave it, if this is true why is it you can self import cars how does RUF sell cars without sunroof?
they just felt like pissing a bunch of customers off?
Originally Posted by ltc
Yes, I know the PAG roadmap for the next 4 years
that's neat, but it's still just a general direction not written in stone.
Originally Posted by enthusiast
SWhat if they tell their childeren the 997, 998 are not worthy of being called a 911, then the childeren buy some other toy and the Porsche sales chain in that family is broken.
still buying them! no broken chain here!
Originally Posted by roberga
When Porsche built cars for the enthusiasts they almost went under. They are a publicly held business. Like it or not, the ONLY reason for a business to exist is to make as much of a profit possible. How many letters did they get 30? How many orders were cancelled 1-2-5? They are ot going to change their decisions because of the small number of us that are whinning about this.
of course they want to make a profit, everyone in business that wants to pay the bills does.
i think they have heard from a lot more than 30 people and it also makes a dif if they are hearing from the "no sunroof" crowd and not from the "sunroof" crowd. squeky wheel.
lost sales make a dif but total sales is the bottom line.
Last edited by icon; 08-19-2006 at 05:56 PM.
08-19-2006, 05:38 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by icon
how many times is the "real 911" going to die?
i wish they would at least change the model no. so we don't have to keep hearing about when the "real 911" or the "real gt3" died.
if it's bs what is the real reason?
they just felt like pissing a bunch of customers off?
i wish they would at least change the model no. so we don't have to keep hearing about when the "real 911" or the "real gt3" died.
if it's bs what is the real reason?
they just felt like pissing a bunch of customers off?
I suspect 1)economies of scale,2) not wanting to spend the expense/hassle of applying for a variance 3) other posters claim they dont care about us as customers (the George Bush hates all bl*** people) excuse I dunno anyone else have any ideas?