RonCT

Whether you want a sunroof or not, you can do us all a favor by "resisting" the mandate. When your dealer calls to say "Ok, time to configure your GT3" you could respond with a "Hmmm, not so fast - I read that the sunroof is mandated..." I wonder what the dealers and PCNA would think as more and more of us let them know how we feel about mandated luxury items (sunroof, cruise control) on a track Porsche.

There are 3 guys in my small "track day" group that have already told our dealers to take us off the wait / order list until this mandate thing is worked out (meaning, that we get the choice like the world market, or we can at least delete is and eat the cost).

Perhaps if there's a united stand on this, Porsche may consider it when releasing future models. Perhaps I'm just an optimist and an idealist, but shame on us if we don't even try to force a change.

YYC930

If the 997 GT2 that I have an order on must have a sunroof as well, I will pass on the car................I'd pay the "Exclusiv" department to remove it and all the ancillary electronic garbage as well (cruise, power windows, stereo, air..etc...etc).............but as certain projects in this company seem to be run by marketing more often than not, I don't really know if I'll get my way.

Looks like I may go "old school" after all..........

ltc

And those 3 cars will be sold/allocated before I finish typing this sentence; the 3 new buyers will be thrilled to have an opportunity to buy a GT3.

PAG, under direction from PCNA, has made its decision regarding US models and sunroofs.
It was a financial decision....period. Why spend the $$ to crash certify when you don't HAVE to?

As mentioned, the rationale was simple. People will bitch and complain all they want, but in the end, PAG will still sell all the cars they want, others will simply buy the cars, with the hole.
People bitch and complain about the 'outdated infotainment' design (no Bluetooth, etc) of the cars....yet PAG sells all the cars they want.

I've been in the room when these discussions occur......it's sobering to realize that PAG is now a marketing driven company under Dr W......Engineering takes the back seat.

enthusiast

ltc;

Many of us understand and find those points to be true. It is still worth the effort to make our points with Porsche.

Remember the sad days when the 996 GT3 Mark I was not offered in North America? With that model and the history of RS and Club Sport versions why would they sell North America the 996 GT3 Mark 2? Because they thought there would be enough ignorant and knowledgeable North American buyers to make a profit on that model.

David A

It all ads up!Sunroof,No racing seats,Nav screen.
If you're going to put a sunroof and a nav screen and cruise control,you might as well have back seats,so kids can get a ride too.

RonCT

Itc and Icon - I think you are missing the point.

First off - those 3 cars will be sold - so what? That means it could have been 6 cars instead of 3. They can make all the cars people want to buy.

Are you saying that nobody should beef about anything in life? If that were the case, I suppose it would be like communism - where the government tells us all what we can have, instead of consumer guiding producers to create what we want.

The point of the whole thing was that if you feel as many of us do - that we'd like the same car that the rest of the world can buy instead of a watered down version, that we should let Porsche know that.

ltc

I don't like to expend effort on a lost cause, I guess that was my only point.

You are free to chose to spend your hard earned dollars elsewhere if PAG does not offer you a product you chose to purchase.
I've often wished I could buy the cars that the RoW get for items I happen to like (seats for example), but I am not offered that opportunity, primarily due to business/economic reasons

Since I was a kid, owning a Porsche was a dream. I was lucky enough to not only be able to own one (took 39 years, but who's counting), but I was also lucky enough to be able to do design/development work with PAG. Unfortunately, you then realize/discover things about the 'new Dr. W' PAG that you didn't know before and your outlook begins to change.

There was a similar thread in the Cayenne forum, regarding updated NAV data for 03/04 CDROM based Cayennes, and the position (which I knew in advance) that PAG/PCNA would take.

Dr W and PAG WILL sell 100K cars/year. The targeted demographic has changed, so being an enthusiast puts you in the minority today I'm afraid.

Apart from the cost of crash test certifying the sunroof delete, everything else is in place (tooling, assembly line, interiors, etc) as BOTH versions WILL be built in Zuffenhausen......it's simply that there aren't ever going to be enough enthusiasts to make it worthwhile for PCNA to offer the sunroof delete.......and as I mentioned, they have already 'run the numbers' and know that they will STILL sell as many 997GT3's in the US, with the hole, as they want to.

Again, not saying I like it, but I know when not to fight.

RonCT

Guys, use common sense. When I ask all Porsche fans to consider getting involved, obviously it's not for you to argue to Porsche to do only a no sunroof version. It's to support having choices like the world market has. Everywhere else on the planet, you can order your GT3 with a sunroof, without, whatever.

As to fighting a lost cause - I'm not a defeatist. Car companies can and do listen to clients. We may not see it this year, but perhaps next, or even in the next version of the car. Some companies still offer choices, like Audi in the A4 / S4 / RS4. They understand and all we are trying to say in this debate is to encourage Porsche to offer choices and stop treating the US individually.

RonCT

Well, I suppose the plan was as originally posted. To talk with your dealer when he calls and says "your number is up, time to order". Let Porsche know that we'd like a choice. Some of us will go further, by taking back our deposit. That will make more of an impression.

ltc

As I stated earlier, PAG today doesn't care about 'Porsche fans'. We are not talking about Ferrari here.
Rule #1: Never try and tell someone who is making money that they are wrong (even if in fact they are).
Now, if PAG were to revert to what it was back in the late 80's/early 90's and needed every customer/enthusiast, that would be different.

You have other choices, they may not end up being a Porsche, but you have other choices.

From what I know today, I would not bet on it.

Yes, and keep in mind that the Euro RS4 is NOT the same as the US RS4, the RS4 Avant didn't make it over here either.
PCNA marketing tells PAG marketing what will sell, how many and for how much. Period. BTW, don't ask how much a moderl Porsche costs to make and how much it is sold for.

MetalSolid

400% profit?

ltc

When I first saw the numbers, I nearly fell over.
Porsche gross margins remind me of Dunkin Donuts gross margins.

MetalSolid

Porsche are really just selling their once great name - very short sighted.

ltc

Welcome to the world of Dr W.
It's a bit depressing to talk to longtime PAG workers in Zuffenhausen and hear them talk about how different it is now.
Oh well, it is what it is.

Bill_C4S

Less depressing if you're a shareholder i suspect - Dr Piech must be smiling...

Brand dilution is a real threat though...one that has a long latency period before sustained detrimental impact is felt.

Just ask Mercedes Benz...