View Poll Results: Do you support option 652?
I'm ordering a 911 but I wish I could order 652 Delete Sunroof"
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47
37.60%
I'm ordering a 911 and I want to have a sunroof.
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17
13.60%
I'm not ordering a 911 because of the "mandatory" sunroof option.
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61
48.80%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll
997 GT3 "Option 652 Delete Sunroof" Group Buy
#31
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roberga,
HAHAHA, It was NOT you, but that's awesome that you got it down. Its actually a neighbor of mine. He has a black one and he really wanted the Gen II.
But again, way to go!!
HAHAHA, It was NOT you, but that's awesome that you got it down. Its actually a neighbor of mine. He has a black one and he really wanted the Gen II.
But again, way to go!!
#32
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Ok.................I have a really stupid question................since when would eliminating a razor sharp..................GLASS sunroof..............not to mention the body sized hole in the roof it resides in, make a car more dangerous in an accident? I really wish there were a way we could impeach the current DOT organization entirely and refill it with true car experts...............like us!!!!!!
I say b............................sssss............................
I say b............................sssss............................
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#33
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Originally Posted by craigsduc
Ok.................I have a really stupid question................since when would eliminating a razor sharp..................GLASS sunroof..............not to mention the body sized hole in the roof it resides in, make a car more dangerous in an accident? I really wish there were a way we could impeach the current DOT organization entirely and refill it with true car experts...............like us!!!!!!
I say b............................sssss............................![nono](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/nono.gif)
I say b............................sssss............................
![nono](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/nono.gif)
They want to crash test a car with or without electric windows for example -- it's obviously a side intrusion issue, but surely they can test the intrusion device itself, see if the manual or electric regulator makes any difference and check the box.
As for Porsche, as someone here pointed out recently, if they're bringing the Targa and testing it, will the Targa really sell more units than the combined number of GT3, RS, Turbo, GT2 and Carrera buyers wanting a tin top without a sunroof?
And if PCNA has to test the non sunroof, why not use the effort to test lightweight DOT plastic door glass and rear window, alloy panels, CF hood and engine cover etc. etc.? I really don't care too much on this count because I can put in DOT plastic bits myself and it's just part of the price to get the lightweight bits. I can't easily cut out that sunroof though. But I might.
#34
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Originally Posted by superbigfo
We just got a place in line for a 997 GT3 RS today and the guy there said that they wont do a sun roof delete because they have not tested a 997 without a sunroof. He said the testing would be a few million...it is not just the price of the car. Luckily the deposit is refundable because, me being 6'4 and my dad being 6'7, we might not be able to fit into a rs with a sun roof and helmets. We plan on putting in the euro seats and a roll cage if we get it. Any idea on how much lower you can get the seats with the appropriate bracket?
Thanks
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#35
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Originally Posted by scottsims88
I am looking at a 997 GT3 here in Florida. I am fairly tall (6'5") and was also wondering about the helmet clearence with the sunroof as the 997's come with standard. Is the clearence better with the 996 GT3 with a helmet? There a lot of great tracks out here and I about ready to step up from my 993.
Thanks
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Thanks
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Give or take leg and torso lengths, you can make it work.
Get a shell seat (Recaro Pole Position for example) and using the flat Recaro sliders (and BK adapters to install in the 996/997 tub.)
You'll be able to adjust even a little lower by changing the (vertical) seat bracket holes.
#37
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The bottom line is if you offer a car without a sunroof and one with a sunroof, the FED will make the manufacturer crash test both cars. You cannot just simply assume the car without the sunroof will perform like a car with a sunroof. PCNA doesn't want to go through the cost of the crash testing which is more than the cost of crashing a few cars. Since there seems to be no limit to people willing to pay the premium for a GT2 or GT3 with a sunroof, what is there motivation to offer one without a sunroof.
#38
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For all the hubbub, I've not yet heard from anyone whose job or experience is inside the working of the DOT or NHTSA or whatever to comment with any degree of authority. Since there are examples of other cars such as the RS4 with lower production numbers and yet the option of a sunroof, I see nothing credible about some heresay that Porsche couldn't afford the testing -- if that testing indeed even exists.
Continuing the baseless, speculation theme, has anyone see an '08 GT3 allocation or is that still pure speculation?
Continuing the baseless, speculation theme, has anyone see an '08 GT3 allocation or is that still pure speculation?
#39
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Originally Posted by Carrera GT
For all the hubbub, I've not yet heard from anyone whose job or experience is inside the working of the DOT or NHTSA or whatever to comment with any degree of authority. Since there are examples of other cars such as the RS4 with lower production numbers and yet the option of a sunroof, I see nothing credible about some heresay that Porsche couldn't afford the testing -- if that testing indeed even exists.
If its true crash testing is required on non sunroof cars, then I’d really like to see the documentation on the exclusion number for non sunroof cars than can be sold without crash testing. 229, 259? Should be available somewhere, right? Otherwise it’s all just a marketing hoax.
Personally I think if there are 08 RS’s, the 3 will still have the sunroof and if there are no RS’s, there is a more likely hood at a chance of getting the 3 without a sunroof.
#40
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Its not a crash test thing guys. Making the regular GT3 heavier - that is forcing a sunroof in it - was the only way to make the NA RS 40kg "lighter" than the regular GT3, since Porsche could not put the fixed back carbon seats in.
Remember Porsche promised "all RS's in all markets would be 40kg lighter than the GT3" and not that "all RS's in all markets would be the same weight".
The only way to make a car lighter is to make the car you are comparing it to heavier. Thats it. All of the DOT crap is wrong.
Who started this DOT rumour? Just goes to show you how wild rumours can spread, based on incorrect starting information.
It won't happen. The 997GT3 will always get a sunroof in NA. Period. Let's move on.
Remember Porsche promised "all RS's in all markets would be 40kg lighter than the GT3" and not that "all RS's in all markets would be the same weight".
The only way to make a car lighter is to make the car you are comparing it to heavier. Thats it. All of the DOT crap is wrong.
Who started this DOT rumour? Just goes to show you how wild rumours can spread, based on incorrect starting information.
It won't happen. The 997GT3 will always get a sunroof in NA. Period. Let's move on.
#41
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Originally Posted by RR
Its not a crash test thing guys. Making the regular GT3 heavier - that is forcing a sunroof in it - was the only way to make the NA RS 40kg "lighter" than the regular GT3, since Porsche could not put the fixed back carbon seats in.
Remember Porsche promised "all RS's in all markets would be 40kg lighter than the GT3" and not that "all RS's in all markets would be the same weight".
The only way to make a car lighter is to make the car you are comparing it to heavier. Thats it. All of the DOT crap is wrong.
Who started this DOT rumour? Just goes to show you how wild rumours can spread, based on incorrect starting information.
It won't happen. The 997GT3 will always get a sunroof in NA. Period. Let's move on.
Remember Porsche promised "all RS's in all markets would be 40kg lighter than the GT3" and not that "all RS's in all markets would be the same weight".
The only way to make a car lighter is to make the car you are comparing it to heavier. Thats it. All of the DOT crap is wrong.
Who started this DOT rumour? Just goes to show you how wild rumours can spread, based on incorrect starting information.
It won't happen. The 997GT3 will always get a sunroof in NA. Period. Let's move on.
But I won't give up hope for a 652 delete on an 08 until it's actually confirmed one way or the other.
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#42
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Originally Posted by RR
Its not a crash test thing guys. Making the regular GT3 heavier - that is forcing a sunroof in it - was the only way to make the NA RS 40kg "lighter" than the regular GT3, since Porsche could not put the fixed back carbon seats in.
Remember Porsche promised "all RS's in all markets would be 40kg lighter than the GT3" and not that "all RS's in all markets would be the same weight".
The only way to make a car lighter is to make the car you are comparing it to heavier. Thats it. All of the DOT crap is wrong.
Who started this DOT rumour? Just goes to show you how wild rumours can spread, based on incorrect starting information.
It won't happen. The 997GT3 will always get a sunroof in NA. Period. Let's move on.
Remember Porsche promised "all RS's in all markets would be 40kg lighter than the GT3" and not that "all RS's in all markets would be the same weight".
The only way to make a car lighter is to make the car you are comparing it to heavier. Thats it. All of the DOT crap is wrong.
Who started this DOT rumour? Just goes to show you how wild rumours can spread, based on incorrect starting information.
It won't happen. The 997GT3 will always get a sunroof in NA. Period. Let's move on.
#43
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This is one of the more implausible conspiracy theories out there.
I sort of get the idea: "make the lower model heavier, so it's cheaper and easier to make the upper model 'win' on a tricky thing like curb weight" but I'm not even sure the "mandatory optional" sunroof even comes into the curb weight calculations and all said and done, it's 50lb tops. Less than two percent? And all the Porsche factory numbers are arbitrary and can never be reproduced from performance to dry or wet weight, the numbers are theirs for their purposes and I don't believe those purposes advance all that much by saying the RS (with the light glass or light seats or roll cage) is made "better" than the GT3 because of a $1000 option that any serious enthusiast can replace with factory tin or (for a few dollars more) with a carbon fibre (fiber) panel and a new head-liner.
As yet, it (the mandatory-optional sunroof in the GT3) makes no sense. It would be fun, one day, for someone to uncover the truth.
I sort of get the idea: "make the lower model heavier, so it's cheaper and easier to make the upper model 'win' on a tricky thing like curb weight" but I'm not even sure the "mandatory optional" sunroof even comes into the curb weight calculations and all said and done, it's 50lb tops. Less than two percent? And all the Porsche factory numbers are arbitrary and can never be reproduced from performance to dry or wet weight, the numbers are theirs for their purposes and I don't believe those purposes advance all that much by saying the RS (with the light glass or light seats or roll cage) is made "better" than the GT3 because of a $1000 option that any serious enthusiast can replace with factory tin or (for a few dollars more) with a carbon fibre (fiber) panel and a new head-liner.
As yet, it (the mandatory-optional sunroof in the GT3) makes no sense. It would be fun, one day, for someone to uncover the truth.
#45
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does anyone actually know how much the sunroof penalty weight is exactly? is it really 40lbs?
i don't buy the DOT crash test either. cayenne has optional sunroof. they were willing to test two versions of the cayenne and not the 911?
i don't buy the DOT crash test either. cayenne has optional sunroof. they were willing to test two versions of the cayenne and not the 911?