cosmos

roberga,

HAHAHA, It was NOT you, but that's awesome that you got it down. Its actually a neighbor of mine. He has a black one and he really wanted the Gen II.

But again, way to go!!

craigsduc

Ok.................I have a really stupid question................since when would eliminating a razor sharp..................GLASS sunroof..............not to mention the body sized hole in the roof it resides in, make a car more dangerous in an accident? I really wish there were a way we could impeach the current DOT organization entirely and refill it with true car experts...............like us!!!!!!
I say b............................sssss............................

Carrera GT

There's little if any sense to crash testing.
They want to crash test a car with or without electric windows for example -- it's obviously a side intrusion issue, but surely they can test the intrusion device itself, see if the manual or electric regulator makes any difference and check the box.

As for Porsche, as someone here pointed out recently, if they're bringing the Targa and testing it, will the Targa really sell more units than the combined number of GT3, RS, Turbo, GT2 and Carrera buyers wanting a tin top without a sunroof?

And if PCNA has to test the non sunroof, why not use the effort to test lightweight DOT plastic door glass and rear window, alloy panels, CF hood and engine cover etc. etc.? I really don't care too much on this count because I can put in DOT plastic bits myself and it's just part of the price to get the lightweight bits. I can't easily cut out that sunroof though. But I might.

scottsims88

I am looking at a 997 GT3 here in Florida. I am fairly tall (6'5") and was also wondering about the helmet clearence with the sunroof as the 997's come with standard. Is the clearence better with the 996 GT3 with a helmet? There a lot of great tracks out here and I about ready to step up from my 993.

Thanks

Carrera GT

I'm barely 6'1" and do not have anywhere near enough room using the factory seat. It's great for street driving, but not with a helmet and the correct seating position. And you should be running harness belts and a HANS device.

Give or take leg and torso lengths, you can make it work.

Get a shell seat (Recaro Pole Position for example) and using the flat Recaro sliders (and BK adapters to install in the 996/997 tub.)

You'll be able to adjust even a little lower by changing the (vertical) seat bracket holes.

Joe S.

So anyone want to start speculating on what the word is for a 652 delete on 08 GT3's?

Duane993

The bottom line is if you offer a car without a sunroof and one with a sunroof, the FED will make the manufacturer crash test both cars. You cannot just simply assume the car without the sunroof will perform like a car with a sunroof. PCNA doesn't want to go through the cost of the crash testing which is more than the cost of crashing a few cars. Since there seems to be no limit to people willing to pay the premium for a GT2 or GT3 with a sunroof, what is there motivation to offer one without a sunroof.

Carrera GT

For all the hubbub, I've not yet heard from anyone whose job or experience is inside the working of the DOT or NHTSA or whatever to comment with any degree of authority. Since there are examples of other cars such as the RS4 with lower production numbers and yet the option of a sunroof, I see nothing credible about some heresay that Porsche couldn't afford the testing -- if that testing indeed even exists.

Continuing the baseless, speculation theme, has anyone see an '08 GT3 allocation or is that still pure speculation?

Joe S.

+1

If its true crash testing is required on non sunroof cars, then I’d really like to see the documentation on the exclusion number for non sunroof cars than can be sold without crash testing. 229, 259? Should be available somewhere, right? Otherwise it’s all just a marketing hoax.

Personally I think if there are 08 RS’s, the 3 will still have the sunroof and if there are no RS’s, there is a more likely hood at a chance of getting the 3 without a sunroof.

RR

Its not a crash test thing guys. Making the regular GT3 heavier - that is forcing a sunroof in it - was the only way to make the NA RS 40kg "lighter" than the regular GT3, since Porsche could not put the fixed back carbon seats in.
Remember Porsche promised "all RS's in all markets would be 40kg lighter than the GT3" and not that "all RS's in all markets would be the same weight".

The only way to make a car lighter is to make the car you are comparing it to heavier. Thats it. All of the DOT crap is wrong.

Who started this DOT rumour? Just goes to show you how wild rumours can spread, based on incorrect starting information.

It won't happen. The 997GT3 will always get a sunroof in NA. Period. Let's move on.

Joe S.

I agree, it's marketing.

But I won't give up hope for a 652 delete on an 08 until it's actually confirmed one way or the other.

amaist

But if the production run for the RS finishes as promised then I can see PCNA allowing sunroof delete on the plain GT3. Only geeks like us will know that there is not as much weight difference between the RS and the GT3.

Carrera GT

This is one of the more implausible conspiracy theories out there.

I sort of get the idea: "make the lower model heavier, so it's cheaper and easier to make the upper model 'win' on a tricky thing like curb weight" but I'm not even sure the "mandatory optional" sunroof even comes into the curb weight calculations and all said and done, it's 50lb tops. Less than two percent? And all the Porsche factory numbers are arbitrary and can never be reproduced from performance to dry or wet weight, the numbers are theirs for their purposes and I don't believe those purposes advance all that much by saying the RS (with the light glass or light seats or roll cage) is made "better" than the GT3 because of a $1000 option that any serious enthusiast can replace with factory tin or (for a few dollars more) with a carbon fibre (fiber) panel and a new head-liner.

As yet, it (the mandatory-optional sunroof in the GT3) makes no sense. It would be fun, one day, for someone to uncover the truth.

RR

sorry I meant to say the RS is 20kg lighter which is 44lbs, thats where the sunroof kicks in, b/c it adds roughly 40lbs give or take.

carrering

does anyone actually know how much the sunroof penalty weight is exactly? is it really 40lbs?
i don't buy the DOT crash test either. cayenne has optional sunroof. they were willing to test two versions of the cayenne and not the 911?