997 GT3 vs. ?
#31
Originally Posted by Sean
The devil is in the details!
Meanwhile Porsche is rolling out the "sport chrono," PASM, "carbon-look" and "aluminum-look" cosmetics. PAG has abandoned factory racing, and is selling more SUVs than sports cars, and recently made news by publicly floating the idea of selling a Toyota-powered hybrid. There's a huge disconnect between "the new Porsche" and the way Porsche has done business in the past.
Meanwhile Porsche is rolling out the "sport chrono," PASM, "carbon-look" and "aluminum-look" cosmetics. PAG has abandoned factory racing, and is selling more SUVs than sports cars, and recently made news by publicly floating the idea of selling a Toyota-powered hybrid. There's a huge disconnect between "the new Porsche" and the way Porsche has done business in the past.
#32
Originally Posted by quartermile
Let me first say that I admire the F430 but have not personally assessed its strengths or weaknesses. The statement was quoting another Rennlister that owns a 360CS "the F430 is essentially 360CS mechanicals with 50hp extra power but also 300lbs more weight"
Ben_LJ may be you can chime in on this one
Ben_LJ may be you can chime in on this one
#33
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ben in lj
nah, gary and i have debated the 430 vs. CS issue to exhaustion, right gary? :-)
Gary
#35
Originally Posted by Z06
If they come out with a 997 GT3 who are they going to compete with.....or compare it to....now that the Lambo, Ford GT, Z06 and the Ferrari are making at least a 100 HP more.....
I would guess one of the problems of having the engine behind the rear wheels is not being able to go very big in displacement....
What do you think Porsche can or will do to step up to the new high HP competion?
I would guess one of the problems of having the engine behind the rear wheels is not being able to go very big in displacement....
What do you think Porsche can or will do to step up to the new high HP competion?
Yeah, but it is not as big of a deal as one might expect. Since 911s are rear engine rear wheel drive cars, they have much lower drivetrain losses than cars like the Corvette you mentioned. That's why in the two recent articles in Car & Driver and Road & Track which comparing the 997s to the new Corvettes, the 325 HP 997 was a little slower than the 400 HP Corvette and the 345 HP 997s was a little faster than the 400 HP Corvette. I realize that the Ford GT and Ferrari are also rear engine cars, but they are very rare and really there is no shame in being just almost as fast as a more expensive Ferrari (which is priced like the 2005 996 Turbo S which has 450 HP and is as fast as a comparably priced Ferrari). That being said, Porsche hasn't really significantly upgraded their engines for a while and when they do they will be probably be more than just competitive as they are now. What do you guys think?
#36
Originally Posted by watt
ben,
did you move your CS yet?
did you move your CS yet?
#37
Advanced
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tournai (Belgium)
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, 997GT3 vs the F430 ...
first, the F430 is 0,5 sec. slower than the F360 CS on the Ferrari test track.
Second, to compete with the F430, the GT3 should have all the tech. features tht the Ferrari has :
- Electronic differential
- Sequential gearbox
- Electronicly piloted suspension
- and to cover all, a kind of "manettino" (can't translate into german)
Why ? Cause, the F430 could be driven so fast by my little 8 years old nephew.
Not the GT3 !!!
The GT3 is not an easy car, and won't permit any mistakes.
Honestly, with the way I am driving a car on the public roads, I really need electronic assistance.
Remembre my accident, which was (proved) due to dirty road. With an ESP or similar, the accident would not happen.
We deliver now some parts for the coming GT3, based on the 997 platform. These parts are used for proto vehicles of course. And according to the chassis engineers, the engine will slighly have the same output. And the weight too ...
And bad news for some : no GT2 yet in prototypes. Only turbo's.
first, the F430 is 0,5 sec. slower than the F360 CS on the Ferrari test track.
Second, to compete with the F430, the GT3 should have all the tech. features tht the Ferrari has :
- Electronic differential
- Sequential gearbox
- Electronicly piloted suspension
- and to cover all, a kind of "manettino" (can't translate into german)
Why ? Cause, the F430 could be driven so fast by my little 8 years old nephew.
Not the GT3 !!!
The GT3 is not an easy car, and won't permit any mistakes.
Honestly, with the way I am driving a car on the public roads, I really need electronic assistance.
Remembre my accident, which was (proved) due to dirty road. With an ESP or similar, the accident would not happen.
We deliver now some parts for the coming GT3, based on the 997 platform. These parts are used for proto vehicles of course. And according to the chassis engineers, the engine will slighly have the same output. And the weight too ...
And bad news for some : no GT2 yet in prototypes. Only turbo's.
#38
Rennlist Member
The GT3 doesn't need an electronically controlled suspension to compete with the F430. Stuff like that seems to be able to balance comfort and performance, while a real race type suspension does the performance part better with some sacrifice in ride. That's what I want and that's what the essence of the GT3 is. No technology should be used unless that tech shows up in the race cars because if it's in the race cars, it's for performance.
#39
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by jecey
Why ? Cause, the F430 could be driven so fast by my little 8 years old nephew.
Not the GT3 !!!
The GT3 is not an easy car, and won't permit any mistakes.
.
Not the GT3 !!!
The GT3 is not an easy car, and won't permit any mistakes.
.
#40
Originally Posted by jecey
Well, 997GT3 vs the F430 ...
first, the F430 is 0,5 sec. slower than the F360 CS on the Ferrari test track.
Second, to compete with the F430, the GT3 should have all the tech. features tht the Ferrari has :
- Electronic differential
- Sequential gearbox
- Electronicly piloted suspension
- and to cover all, a kind of "manettino" (can't translate into german)
Why ? Cause, the F430 could be driven so fast by my little 8 years old nephew.
Not the GT3 !!!
The GT3 is not an easy car, and won't permit any mistakes.
Honestly, with the way I am driving a car on the public roads, I really need electronic assistance.
Remembre my accident, which was (proved) due to dirty road. With an ESP or similar, the accident would not happen.
We deliver now some parts for the coming GT3, based on the 997 platform. These parts are used for proto vehicles of course. And according to the chassis engineers, the engine will slighly have the same output. And the weight too ...
And bad news for some : no GT2 yet in prototypes. Only turbo's.
first, the F430 is 0,5 sec. slower than the F360 CS on the Ferrari test track.
Second, to compete with the F430, the GT3 should have all the tech. features tht the Ferrari has :
- Electronic differential
- Sequential gearbox
- Electronicly piloted suspension
- and to cover all, a kind of "manettino" (can't translate into german)
Why ? Cause, the F430 could be driven so fast by my little 8 years old nephew.
Not the GT3 !!!
The GT3 is not an easy car, and won't permit any mistakes.
Honestly, with the way I am driving a car on the public roads, I really need electronic assistance.
Remembre my accident, which was (proved) due to dirty road. With an ESP or similar, the accident would not happen.
We deliver now some parts for the coming GT3, based on the 997 platform. These parts are used for proto vehicles of course. And according to the chassis engineers, the engine will slighly have the same output. And the weight too ...
And bad news for some : no GT2 yet in prototypes. Only turbo's.
#42
Originally Posted by tdf360
Thank you Ben! You da man!
Gary
Gary
#43
I have driven the new vette and the new Porsche Turbo prototype (not the GT3), side-by-side. In Germany, at one of the as yet un-named tracks. I do not believe that performance and weight numbers tell the story. The vette was much lighter but could not compete with the turbo, even on a very twisty track, with long straights. I can't say more now because I subcontract with Porsche. I also beleive that the new GT3 will be faster. But I am biased...
------------------
2002 996TTX50
92 RSA
93 911 Turbo S2
80 SC
------------------
2002 996TTX50
92 RSA
93 911 Turbo S2
80 SC
#44
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by Fishman
Yeah, but it is not as big of a deal as one might expect. Since 911s are rear engine rear wheel drive cars, they have much lower drivetrain losses than cars like the Corvette you mentioned. That's why in the two recent articles in Car & Driver and Road & Track which comparing the 997s to the new Corvettes, the 325 HP 997 was a little slower than the 400 HP Corvette and the 345 HP 997s was a little faster than the 400 HP Corvette. I realize that the Ford GT and Ferrari are also rear engine cars, but they are very rare and really there is no shame in being just almost as fast as a more expensive Ferrari (which is priced like the 2005 996 Turbo S which has 450 HP and is as fast as a comparably priced Ferrari). That being said, Porsche hasn't really significantly upgraded their engines for a while and when they do they will be probably be more than just competitive as they are now. What do you guys think?
Did you ever think it might not have to do with drivetrain loss but gearing differences? Show me proof that rear engine cars have less drivetrain loss, I don't believe it.
#45
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ben in lj
No problem Gary :-) You've been right all along to point out the tire differential, I've just not been real sure about exactly how much of a diff it makes for sure.
Gary