switchcars

Teaser question, I know. For those of you who don't know, we've launched a weekly live Podcast on YouTube. Last night we discussed whether or not cars are (good) investments, and covered the GT3/RS market pretty heavily, including historical pricing on 997 RS from 2007-present compared to other investment vehicles (pun intended).

You can also download the audio podcast starting tomorrow on Spotify/Apple/Etc, just search "SWITCHCAST"

8Lug

Of course they are investments. Problem is you won't know if they are good or bad investments until you go to sell.
I enjoyed your podcast, btw.

Marv

Great! Another value thread. They just won't die.

Spyerx

switchcars

You might find that I agree wholeheartedly. But the subject is a hot one, whether or not we like it.

JS

Hell yea !!!

EMpunker

Using this inflation calculator: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

My RS has appreciated in value since I bought it in 2018. It has increased in value by roughly $30k (today's dollars) despite my 4k miles of use over the last 4 years.

Had I invested that money in Amazon stock in 2018, it would have increased in value by roughly $235k (today's dollars).

I'd say for a car, they are good investments, but in general they are not.

bweSteve

Thanks for posting Doug. I did not know you were doing the switchcast, so this was nice of you to post here (I'm lax when it comes to phone-based social media platforms)

I don't mind another value thread. If you don't like it, ignore it.

You & Sabo hit the nail on the head when you talked about demographics. People buy based on their memories. That was true of my father who, when he was 18 yrs old, owned a white '58 Impala (w/ red piping & stripes) from American Graffiti,.. and then fast-fwd to when he was about 50 yrs old, bought it back. The 50's cars were selling very well in the 90's because his baby boomer generation WANTED them back. Sabo mentioned it - they were cheering in the stands at Barret Jackson.
NOW those guys (& gals) are all around 80 yrs old, and they have all SOLD them to get out from underneath these hunks of steel that they can no longer drive & enjoy. Same went for my Gen x friends who, starting about 20yrs ago, all HAD to re-buy all the late 60's muscle cars that we had in high school. I did the same thing (except I bought about 6-7 yrs BEFORE they did, and got some good pricing). My problem is that I still love them so much that I cannot ever sell anything I buy. My good examples are the 68/69 Camaro's & the 964 Turbo that my wife & I have been enjoying for the last 18+ yrs. Spence is right... they will drop in the coming years.... unfortunately (also in the coming years) with EV future, our kids will inherit a bunch of ICE cars that will be a PIA to unload,... haha, oh well, I'll be 6 feet under. I'm spending their inheritance money with smiles on my face with all the thousands of miles I drive!! (... well, to be fair they drive them too,... so we do mix full family fun into it.... but honestly I am the driving force in our family)

But I predict we will also see that same type of demographic swing happen again with Porsche's. The big air-cooled price-up has happened,... and yes I agree there are still a lot of young guys with money that want to "taste" the air-cooled,... but they will get tired quickly. Those owners will soon start to realize how HARD it is to keep them running well (especially when a lot of them are starting to SIT in garages for extended periods of time). The number of knowledgeable mechanics out there who know MIS, CIS, K-jet injection systems, Motronic, WUR's, Frequency Valves, etc, are DWINDLING very quickly, and business are disappearing. The current trend is for 997 cars. It is why we are seeing such rapid climb in values, purchasing, and supply shortages for those cars. The demographics are such that the people with MONEY right now, want reliable FUN cars to drive, and the belief is that it will at least hold steady on value while they own it. I'm so glad I bought my 997.2 GT3 in 2018!

So yea, from a question of: "are cars a good investment?" perspective,... they are not. The top honor for "safe" investments has been held by real-estate, forever. "Good" investments are most always identified AFTER those who enjoyed the gains identified them (stocks, bonds, bitcoin, etc). I'll give the leeway that cars can be a "FUN" investment, because ... well because you can't DRIVE a piece of land.
And you guys hit the highlights that it is always better to buy something you love, use it, enjoy it,... and if it happens to increase in value, then its a bonus. Sabo - "Make Memories" - best answer ever.

When personal tastes & purchases precede the market (& demographic) trends, then that person will be lucky enough to enjoy the freedom to get out whenever they so-choose, and not get slammed. Cuz lets face it, we all just want to know that we won't be kicked out to the curb with only the shirt on our backs, if it all hits the fan & ends up in a handbasket. If an unfortunate financial market correction occurs, then those of us who got in early on ANY of the variants, will be fine (IF you had to sell for family obligation reasons or something like that). Drive & enjoy them guilt & worry free.

The "competitive buying" topic discussion was interesting too,... I understand why it would annoy Doug (since he's in the business),... but I find it friggin hilarious to watch as all of that happens in the 991 GT market. ADM's are another thing I find funny to watch & listen to people discuss.

996AE

Yes and Yes

I tell my wife all of my special collector cars are investments.

Keep it up.


Please.

Marv

The subject is, at the least, a good source of amusement.

As for the answer to your original question; as a general rule, cars are not a good investment, unless your currency is in smiles.

8Lug

How good an investment is, is relative. The absolute return is not always the right measure. We need to factor in risk, volatility, opportunity cost, etc. Saying a car was not a good investment because it only doubled in value while the S&P quadrupled is like saying the S&P is not a good investment because it only quadrupled while TSLA or AVGO increased 8 fold during the same time period. Technically speaking, anything that generates a positive return in excess of inflation is a good investment, assuming it carries a commensurate amount of risk. I look at the cars I buy (always the best examples of low mileage, good spec, relatively limited production) as part of the cash portion of my overall investment portfolio. That is to say, I only expect them to maintain their value, but unlike straight cash or a CD, I get to enjoy them instead of looking at a number on a paper statement. If they happen to go up in value, then that is just a bonus.

fayraree

I would say it’s the best kind of investment. One that will appreciate over time, plus you will have a ton of fun using it. Can’t wait to get my hands on one so I can drive the snot out of it.

mooty

well if I had crystal in past, yes it is
I sold 8 997GT3RS variants. I think the higher priced one was $140k all sub 10k miles cars hahaha
including Green 997.1RS
oh well

switchcars

Best answer.

STALKER99

If you drive them no, and you should drive them!!!!