Do standard price guides apply to 911's?
05-02-2017, 12:15 AM
#1
Track Day
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Do standard price guides apply to 911's?
checking on used car values via KBB and NADA and there was around a $10,000 price variance on a $38-48K car.
Do these guide books depict the correct values on these cars? When I did the same comparison on our SUV they were very close on price between the 2 companies
Do these guide books depict the correct values on these cars? When I did the same comparison on our SUV they were very close on price between the 2 companies
05-02-2017, 01:26 AM
#2
No reason to follow those sites when you can easily gauge market value by checking forums, Craigslist, cargurus, Autotrader, and eBay.
eBay has a "recently sold" search function which is a nice tell for true market value.
eBay has a "recently sold" search function which is a nice tell for true market value.
05-02-2017, 02:51 AM
#3
Poseur
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That system cannot account for the fact that there are nearly a 100 pages of options for these cars, some of which do command a higher return on the used cars. The price of a 997 can be as low as a stripped base Carrera to as high as a loaded Carrera 4S Cab.
05-02-2017, 03:22 AM
#4
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Not the current car I own but the one previous. I bought from a dealer here in the San Diego Cal area and during the negotiations the saleslady brought out a KBB printout to help justify their sale price. This was about 2 years ago and at that time KBB seemed to have inflated prices on 911's. I was just curious if there was a pricing guide I am not familiar with where I could get a accurate price/valuation. Listings are hard to go by as I don't know if they are going for asking price or way under.
I like the idea of bring able to look up sold prices on EBay but I would think Ebay is the lowest prices that a seller would get for a car. i would be hesitant to bid on a 40-50K car sight unseen off of Ebay
I like the idea of bring able to look up sold prices on EBay but I would think Ebay is the lowest prices that a seller would get for a car. i would be hesitant to bid on a 40-50K car sight unseen off of Ebay
05-02-2017, 10:42 AM
#5
Drifting
We have NADA loaded into our desktops at work. There are several problems with NADA, KBB and other price guides.
Primarily, NADA and KBB have no way to capture the value of things that Porsche buyers want. There is such a wide variety of options, models and variables with these cars, combined with a small number of sales to use as data points, that NADA and KBB just can't give good values.
Want a Chevy truck? They crank out hundreds of thousands of them yearly. They have fairly limited options lists and the trucks are bought and sold every few minutes. NADA can track that and give you a good value.
On the flip side, I just booked out my car on NADA for giggles. The estimated MSRP was $25k low because of the options list on my car. NADA gave me an additional $4,900 for low miles, but my 65k miles would probably be looked at as a detriment to a buyer on an '09. The clean retail on my car is $42,900, but I think that's low, based on prices on cars in my area.
For these cars, the best way to judge prices is to look at a couple hundred on AutoTrader, Cars.com, Ebay and at your local dealers, discount those prices by some arbitrary percentage to account for negotiation and ultimate purchase price and go from there. The more data points you have, the better.
And, of course, check in here and on other Porsche forums to see what people are actually selling and buying their cars for.
Primarily, NADA and KBB have no way to capture the value of things that Porsche buyers want. There is such a wide variety of options, models and variables with these cars, combined with a small number of sales to use as data points, that NADA and KBB just can't give good values.
Want a Chevy truck? They crank out hundreds of thousands of them yearly. They have fairly limited options lists and the trucks are bought and sold every few minutes. NADA can track that and give you a good value.
On the flip side, I just booked out my car on NADA for giggles. The estimated MSRP was $25k low because of the options list on my car. NADA gave me an additional $4,900 for low miles, but my 65k miles would probably be looked at as a detriment to a buyer on an '09. The clean retail on my car is $42,900, but I think that's low, based on prices on cars in my area.
For these cars, the best way to judge prices is to look at a couple hundred on AutoTrader, Cars.com, Ebay and at your local dealers, discount those prices by some arbitrary percentage to account for negotiation and ultimate purchase price and go from there. The more data points you have, the better.
And, of course, check in here and on other Porsche forums to see what people are actually selling and buying their cars for.
05-02-2017, 04:48 PM
#6
In my opinion the KBB and NADA have been -$15k on 997 carrera sales prices I've seen and heard from people.
Options matter of course; PDK, 6MT, tiptronic can all have a varying effect on price alone.
Options matter of course; PDK, 6MT, tiptronic can all have a varying effect on price alone.
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05-02-2017, 07:25 PM
#9
RL Community Team
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When I was looking late last year, I built a summary of asking prices of 997.2 2/4S coupes to get a feel for the market.
This is what I saw in late December:
Gave me a sense for where the market was at that time.
Karl.
05-02-2017, 10:46 PM
#10
Great question. It seems like standard book on something like a 997.2 manual is quite a bit lower than what they sell for. Recently a 2009 997.2 C2S, $112k build, 18k miles, sold in a couple of days at Porsche Plano for $60k. They didn't make many of these cars, especially in manual, and they aren't coming up for sale often. All of the people who upgraded to a 991 have done so, and most everyone else has no reason to sell, especially as they don't seem to be depreciating.
05-02-2017, 10:48 PM
#11
Due to time of year, I bet prices are 3-4% higher right now than back in December. I did a search on Porsche's website: basically zero 997.2 6MT for sale anywhere in the country. I think there were 3 non-cab/non-turbos/GT3/RS cars!
05-03-2017, 02:20 AM
#13
Me personally:
Non negotiable:
6MT
well-cared for car with routine maintenance
Not black
Highly desired:
PSE (easy enough to do a Gundo however)
Aerokit or Sport Design (really hard to find)
widebody C4/C4S/GTS
Upgraded suspension (really transforms the car)
Sport Chrono
Nice to have:
Full Leather
sport seats
LSD
For other people, it could be completely different:
PDK
3.8L S/GTS engine
Power seats
Sunroof
certain wheels
As far as options that hold their value:
Full Leather
6MT
Sport Chrono
PSE
not a "weird" color that turns most buyers off
05-04-2017, 10:15 AM
#15
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Keep in mind that if you're financing the car, the bank will likely use the KBB value as the most they're willing to finance. So if you find a car that's $10k over KBB you'll need to pay that out of pocket on top of any other down payment you were planning on making.