gyrfalcon

Thank you for the input!

gyrfalcon

Thank you!

gyrfalcon

Thank you so much for this post, as I consistently forget to mention those additional benefits, in particular the fact that the assembled stand raises and lowers with the vehicle. There is never a need to align anything when lowering your car since it all lowers together as one system. This is safer and more convenient in our opinion than even conventional stands which may require repositioning when lowering the vehicle.

Also a great observation about the stands taking up limited space under the car. They're more open in design as well, allowing work through if necessary, and I often use that space in between the bases to keep tools, bolts, screws, etc. together while I'm under there.

We are planning to improve the height flexibility as well. The prototype in the video has 3 height settings ranging from 11" to 15" at maximum, but we intend to broaden that range in the production version.

Very much appreciated!

gyrfalcon

Lol, that last point cracked me up because I've always suspected the same thing. Not something we want to be risking our lives under. There are probably some exceptions, like ESCO for example that are made overseas and are of excellent quality, but there aren't too many out there. Funny you mentioned the aviation stands, because we've had some interest from seaplane people. Evidently our design is applicable under the floats and much better than whatever they currently use, and also for logistic reasons because they pack so well and can be carried in the aircraft. We're not sure when we're going to build something for them, as we're focusing fully on the automotive market for now, but we thought that was pretty cool.

Thanks for the post!

sctanton52

My current aircraft is a land only low wing design, the jack stands are basically a standard hydraulic ram with a sturdy 3 point base and an locking system. I could well see where your basic design could be adapted for an amphibious float plane. Could you make them of an aluminum alloy to help keep the weight down? Weight is a big issue in the aircraft world.

gyrfalcon

Definitely. The prototype in the video is almost entirely constructed of aluminum, with a pair weighing in at about 24lbs while still being ratable to 2 tons/pair by ANSI standards. Depending on their load rating requirements, we could build them a larger/stronger aluminum version if necessary without too much of a weight penalty.

sctanton52

Thats cool, once you get the automotive side figured you got the avaition folks to work with. As an aircraft owner, I am a bit more numb to any sticker price shock. FYI, the biggest Amphib that I am aware of is the Cessna 208 Caravan at 8850 lbs gross weight.

gyrfalcon

I believe we can egineer one to accomodate that weight, and I appreciate you letting me know. I like the idea of building something for the aviation commmunity at some point

1990nein

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jeffm

^^^^ditto^^^^

Ben Z

I have never heard of a jackstand pin breaking, however in standard tubular jackstands they pass through the tube several inches apart, so the force is applied at two points about 3" apart, so the likelihood of a pin shearing at both points simultaneously is extremely low. In this design the cross section is much narrower, so the force on the pin is more concentrated. Employing a U-shaped pin and double holes would mitigate, as would using an alloy with higher strength, but the simplest and cheapest would be merely increasing the diameter of the pin.

The question I have is in regards to the universal application of these stands. In order for it to work, the jackpoint has to be far enough away from the tire so the stand leg clears it.

gyrfalcon

I appreciate the concerns and will do my best to address them here. I just want to mention first that we're going to go with larger pins, because even though the current pins are more than strong enough, there are many that do not like the way they look and I understand that.

Just to give you an idea of how strong the current pins are, they are 1/4" steel and each is in double sheer and capable of sustaining up to 1.9 metric tons of force per pin. In addition, keep in mind that each pin will only bear half the weight of whatever each stand is supporting. So you would have to load 4 metric tons on EACH stand before you approach pin failure, while the complete pair of aluminum stands is only rated to 2 tons. That gives you a safety factor of 4 for each pin, and the new larger pins will naturally exceed that.

The durability of the design has repeatedly, and will be again, subject to testing. Simulations of the current design were done by an aerospace engineer from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University and were conducted both on level ground, and in other more extreme situations that we would never recommend our customers placing our stands in, though they passed those tests as well. This was conducted on our aluminum version, and the results of the testing demonstrate the design's ability to exceed the ANSI requirement for a safety factor of 3 or greater, which gives each stand a safe load rating of 2,000 lb, or 1-ton. , so you could imagine how much stronger they are in full steel or as an aluminum-steel hybrid which is likely what the production version will be.

When the production version is finalized, it will also be subjected to simulation and practical testing to meet ANSI standards, but also impractical testing with the sole intent of destroying it to determine how much it can actually endure before it fails.

Guys, we put safety above and beyond the other attributes of the design, and we went to Embry Riddle for help, which is the world's best aerospace engineering university on the planet, bar none. The stands may look simple, but months went into engineering and testing. I wouldn't put anything out there that I wasn't willing to let my kids sleep under.

Again I really appreciate the questions, and for giving me the chance to talk about our safety standards a bit

gyrfalcon

Please see my response above. Thanks!

gyrfalcon

That last question is a great one, because I had a real problem getting my first prototype under the front jacking point of my 993, which is only something like 2 to 3 inches from the front tire. It drove me crazy for a while until it dawned on me to angle each end of the stand's center piece and then put opposing angles to the upper ends of the legs that feed into that center piece, which allowed me to slightly pivot the legs and also bring bring them closer to center before attaching them. That solved the problem with room to spare, and we ended up getting a patent on that aspect too. You can make out those angles in the video.

You're correct about the pins being in double shear. The current pins are capable of sustaining up to 1.9 metric tons of force per pin. With each pin only bearing half the weight of whatever the stand is supporting, you would have to load 4 metric tons on EACH stand before you approach pin failure. Currently a complete pair of aluminum stands is rated to 2 tons. Still, based on feedback we've been receiving, we are intending to put larger pins in the production version.

I appreciate the input and the question!

Ben Z

Makes sense how you configured them to anticipate jackpoint placement!

As for the pins, increasing the diameter is certainly the most straightforward means. Testing is excellent. Remember, there is a difference between stress and force. Force is mass X acceleration, i.e., what the pin is subjected to when the jack is withdrawn and the weight of the car descends upon the stands. That varies not only with the weight of the car, but also how quickly the car is lowered. Once the car is resting on the stand, the pins are no longer subject to force, and modulus of elasticity becomes more relevant than shear strength.