Change amplifier ASK by Bose system
10-30-2016, 04:59 AM
#1
1st Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Paris
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Change amplifier ASK by Bose system
Hi
It's my first post
I have 997 4s ph2 2010. I would like to replace my amplifier ASK by Bose. Porsche said me that it was not possible after-market. But i want to try.
I'm looking for the Technical manuel Porsche 997 carrera 2010 wiring plans for change.
Thank you for tour help
It's my first post
I have 997 4s ph2 2010. I would like to replace my amplifier ASK by Bose. Porsche said me that it was not possible after-market. But i want to try.
I'm looking for the Technical manuel Porsche 997 carrera 2010 wiring plans for change.
Thank you for tour help
10-30-2016, 07:49 AM
#2
Hi Emoreau,
Welcome to the forum! Why do you want to change the amp? If it is for better sound then you may as well go ahead and change the headunit as well!
You can't change just the amplifier & keep the Porsche headunit, as far as I know.
Lots of posts on replacing the head unit.
Welcome to the forum! Why do you want to change the amp? If it is for better sound then you may as well go ahead and change the headunit as well!
You can't change just the amplifier & keep the Porsche headunit, as far as I know.
Lots of posts on replacing the head unit.
Hi
It's my first post
I have 997 4s ph2 2010. I would like to replace my amplifier ASK by Bose. Porsche said me that it was not possible after-market. But i want to try.
I'm looking for the Technical manuel Porsche 997 carrera 2010 wiring plans for change.
Thank you for tour help
It's my first post
I have 997 4s ph2 2010. I would like to replace my amplifier ASK by Bose. Porsche said me that it was not possible after-market. But i want to try.
I'm looking for the Technical manuel Porsche 997 carrera 2010 wiring plans for change.
Thank you for tour help
10-30-2016, 11:29 AM
#4
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As of a few months ago, mobridge didn't make a unit for the 997.2, PCM3 system.
The Bose/Becker/Harmon head unit has analog outs in back of the unit. You can power a new amp from here but it gets a little weird. If you have the premium sound system, these pins are deactivated and the sound is outted via fiber optics to the amp under your passenger seat. It is proprietary and you are out of luck... however, you can have the dealer "reflash" or "reprogram" the head unit to not be premium and that will activate the analog pins and you can then use a different amp. Porsche uses the exact same head unit for premium/non-premium system, just a different software configuration.
If you don't have the premium system, there will not be a fiber link and these analog pins are active. You can use these pins to connect to an amp.
Full disclosure: I got this information from various sources but have not done the "reflash" so my information is directionally correct. I recommend you connect with one of the board sponsors and ask them about how to do it. Search the forums for who these installers are and send them an email. I am not surprised the dealer has no clue.... for the 997.2, this type of amp-only surgery is uncommon. I have the premium system and tried to do exactly as you want and ended up having the whole head unit replaced (I only discovered the "reflash" during mid-installation). This was expensive as there is extensive re-wiring going on. In the end, the system had a horrible whine the installer could not get out so he replaced the whole system back to stock and refunded my money.
If your amp is under the passenger seat, you must use an amp of small size as it is tight in there. All existing speaker wires are routed and terminate under the seat. If you want a bigger amp, you must rewire everything to the front trunk. I suspect you will run new wires from your head unit to the sub system and replace the sub-amp as it is fiber optic connected as well.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
The Bose/Becker/Harmon head unit has analog outs in back of the unit. You can power a new amp from here but it gets a little weird. If you have the premium sound system, these pins are deactivated and the sound is outted via fiber optics to the amp under your passenger seat. It is proprietary and you are out of luck... however, you can have the dealer "reflash" or "reprogram" the head unit to not be premium and that will activate the analog pins and you can then use a different amp. Porsche uses the exact same head unit for premium/non-premium system, just a different software configuration.
If you don't have the premium system, there will not be a fiber link and these analog pins are active. You can use these pins to connect to an amp.
Full disclosure: I got this information from various sources but have not done the "reflash" so my information is directionally correct. I recommend you connect with one of the board sponsors and ask them about how to do it. Search the forums for who these installers are and send them an email. I am not surprised the dealer has no clue.... for the 997.2, this type of amp-only surgery is uncommon. I have the premium system and tried to do exactly as you want and ended up having the whole head unit replaced (I only discovered the "reflash" during mid-installation). This was expensive as there is extensive re-wiring going on. In the end, the system had a horrible whine the installer could not get out so he replaced the whole system back to stock and refunded my money.
If your amp is under the passenger seat, you must use an amp of small size as it is tight in there. All existing speaker wires are routed and terminate under the seat. If you want a bigger amp, you must rewire everything to the front trunk. I suspect you will run new wires from your head unit to the sub system and replace the sub-amp as it is fiber optic connected as well.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
10-30-2016, 01:32 PM
#5
The retrofit is possible but it's a complete pain in the a**. So essentially it's not practical. When you are done, you've spent a ton of money on parts, way too much time on labor, all for a marginal upgrade but OEM upgrade.
You would need the following pieces:
MOST fiber optic bus - horrible to install aftermarket
Porsche PCM head unit compatible with MOST - way too expensive, selling for more than top of the line aftermarket units
Bose amplifier iteself
Wiring harness - probably easier to wire everything directly with separate wires
Speakers including subwoofer
So essentially you are changing out the entire radio system - head unit, amplifier, wiring including copper and fiber, and speakers. With the going prices on many of the Porsche parts used you are over $3.5K US, new could approach $5K or more. That's just parts. Then you need to either install it yourself or find someone willing to do it without any instructions, just wiring diagrams from the factory.
A better option is stick with your ASK compatible head unit and just swap the speakers and amplifier for better aftermarket ones. Everything will still look OEM as you would keep your head unit but the sound would be way better. This upgrade is by far easier than doing the same upgrade on a Bose system because the ASK system does not have the MOST fiber optic bus to deal with.
The next step would be swapping out the head unit too for something aftermarket. It will no longer look OEM but would sound the best. Check out systems from Pioneer, Alpine and Kenwood. Their top of the line units have Apple Carplay or Android Auto too. Or go with a dedicated nav system built in.
You would need the following pieces:
MOST fiber optic bus - horrible to install aftermarket
Porsche PCM head unit compatible with MOST - way too expensive, selling for more than top of the line aftermarket units
Bose amplifier iteself
Wiring harness - probably easier to wire everything directly with separate wires
Speakers including subwoofer
So essentially you are changing out the entire radio system - head unit, amplifier, wiring including copper and fiber, and speakers. With the going prices on many of the Porsche parts used you are over $3.5K US, new could approach $5K or more. That's just parts. Then you need to either install it yourself or find someone willing to do it without any instructions, just wiring diagrams from the factory.
A better option is stick with your ASK compatible head unit and just swap the speakers and amplifier for better aftermarket ones. Everything will still look OEM as you would keep your head unit but the sound would be way better. This upgrade is by far easier than doing the same upgrade on a Bose system because the ASK system does not have the MOST fiber optic bus to deal with.
The next step would be swapping out the head unit too for something aftermarket. It will no longer look OEM but would sound the best. Check out systems from Pioneer, Alpine and Kenwood. Their top of the line units have Apple Carplay or Android Auto too. Or go with a dedicated nav system built in.
10-30-2016, 09:12 PM
#7
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The simplest and best way to improve the sound is just to replace the amp and headunit leaving the speakers the same. Replacing the speakers is an option but IMO, not worth it.
By replacing the head unit and amp, you throw away all the problems. Unfortunately, it did not work for me because of the mystery whine. My installer, someone I really trust, was dumbfounded and spent tons of hours, swapping amps etc. etc. and we just could not get rid of it. I suspect a bad alternator but who knows. He has a done a bunch of 997.2s and never had a problem. Anywho.....
Before I did the head and amp swap, I replaced all the speakers with Focal units DIY. It was a ton of work and I had to Dremel the crap out of everything, make mounts etc. etc. What did I get? Perfect stock look and only an incremental improvement in sound.... not really worth it.
I did hear, side by side to my car (with the Focal speakers) another '09 that had kept the Bose speakers but swapped the head unit and amp.... wow, did it sound great. It really did. You can improve the sound in these cars big time but you have to go after that amp, and because of the proprietary system, the headunit too.
It then comes down to cost.... do you want to control the thing from your steering wheel if you have that Porsche option, add $$. If you want XM/Sirus? Add a new antenea as the existing won't work for some reason.... Want sockets for USB and other inputs? add $$$.
Yes it can get expensive.... but... it can be done, it is not all that hard if you ditch the headunit and amp. But as I noted above, you may be able to just ditch the amp with a "reflash"/"reprogram" for the head unit to activate the analog outs. Very few installers know about this or how to do it... you need to shop around and some of the sponsors or shops that post on this forum know how. Then it gets really simple as you just run some cables to the amp that you swap out under the passenger seat and just plug into the existing speaker system... no big deal.
The big question is what is this all worth to you? I found there are two types of folks who upgrade their stereos.... those who want to show off... ride through the hood and set of car alarms.... and those who love music. For those that love music, price is not that big of a deal for something so important to them.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
By replacing the head unit and amp, you throw away all the problems. Unfortunately, it did not work for me because of the mystery whine. My installer, someone I really trust, was dumbfounded and spent tons of hours, swapping amps etc. etc. and we just could not get rid of it. I suspect a bad alternator but who knows. He has a done a bunch of 997.2s and never had a problem. Anywho.....
Before I did the head and amp swap, I replaced all the speakers with Focal units DIY. It was a ton of work and I had to Dremel the crap out of everything, make mounts etc. etc. What did I get? Perfect stock look and only an incremental improvement in sound.... not really worth it.
I did hear, side by side to my car (with the Focal speakers) another '09 that had kept the Bose speakers but swapped the head unit and amp.... wow, did it sound great. It really did. You can improve the sound in these cars big time but you have to go after that amp, and because of the proprietary system, the headunit too.
It then comes down to cost.... do you want to control the thing from your steering wheel if you have that Porsche option, add $$. If you want XM/Sirus? Add a new antenea as the existing won't work for some reason.... Want sockets for USB and other inputs? add $$$.
Yes it can get expensive.... but... it can be done, it is not all that hard if you ditch the headunit and amp. But as I noted above, you may be able to just ditch the amp with a "reflash"/"reprogram" for the head unit to activate the analog outs. Very few installers know about this or how to do it... you need to shop around and some of the sponsors or shops that post on this forum know how. Then it gets really simple as you just run some cables to the amp that you swap out under the passenger seat and just plug into the existing speaker system... no big deal.
The big question is what is this all worth to you? I found there are two types of folks who upgrade their stereos.... those who want to show off... ride through the hood and set of car alarms.... and those who love music. For those that love music, price is not that big of a deal for something so important to them.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Trending Topics
10-30-2016, 09:25 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
The simplest and best way to improve the sound is just to replace the amp and headunit leaving the speakers the same. Replacing the speakers is an option but IMO, not worth it.
By replacing the head unit and amp, you throw away all the problems. Unfortunately, it did not work for me because of the mystery whine. My installer, someone I really trust, was dumbfounded and spent tons of hours, swapping amps etc. etc. and we just could not get rid of it. I suspect a bad alternator but who knows. He has a done a bunch of 997.2s and never had a problem. Anywho.....
Before I did the head and amp swap, I replaced all the speakers with Focal units DIY. It was a ton of work and I had to Dremel the crap out of everything, make mounts etc. etc. What did I get? Perfect stock look and only an incremental improvement in sound.... not really worth it.
I did hear, side by side to my car (with the Focal speakers) another '09 that had kept the Bose speakers but swapped the head unit and amp.... wow, did it sound great. It really did. You can improve the sound in these cars big time but you have to go after that amp, and because of the proprietary system, the headunit too.
It then comes down to cost.... do you want to control the thing from your steering wheel if you have that Porsche option, add $$. If you want XM/Sirus? Add a new antenea as the existing won't work for some reason.... Want sockets for USB and other inputs? add $$$.
Yes it can get expensive.... but... it can be done, it is not all that hard if you ditch the headunit and amp. But as I noted above, you may be able to just ditch the amp with a "reflash"/"reprogram" for the head unit to activate the analog outs. Very few installers know about this or how to do it... you need to shop around and some of the sponsors or shops that post on this forum know how. Then it gets really simple as you just run some cables to the amp that you swap out under the passenger seat and just plug into the existing speaker system... no big deal.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
By replacing the head unit and amp, you throw away all the problems. Unfortunately, it did not work for me because of the mystery whine. My installer, someone I really trust, was dumbfounded and spent tons of hours, swapping amps etc. etc. and we just could not get rid of it. I suspect a bad alternator but who knows. He has a done a bunch of 997.2s and never had a problem. Anywho.....
Before I did the head and amp swap, I replaced all the speakers with Focal units DIY. It was a ton of work and I had to Dremel the crap out of everything, make mounts etc. etc. What did I get? Perfect stock look and only an incremental improvement in sound.... not really worth it.
I did hear, side by side to my car (with the Focal speakers) another '09 that had kept the Bose speakers but swapped the head unit and amp.... wow, did it sound great. It really did. You can improve the sound in these cars big time but you have to go after that amp, and because of the proprietary system, the headunit too.
It then comes down to cost.... do you want to control the thing from your steering wheel if you have that Porsche option, add $$. If you want XM/Sirus? Add a new antenea as the existing won't work for some reason.... Want sockets for USB and other inputs? add $$$.
Yes it can get expensive.... but... it can be done, it is not all that hard if you ditch the headunit and amp. But as I noted above, you may be able to just ditch the amp with a "reflash"/"reprogram" for the head unit to activate the analog outs. Very few installers know about this or how to do it... you need to shop around and some of the sponsors or shops that post on this forum know how. Then it gets really simple as you just run some cables to the amp that you swap out under the passenger seat and just plug into the existing speaker system... no big deal.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=50
10-30-2016, 09:42 PM
#9
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This is why the Audison Prima was created. Its a simple plug n play into the factory system. Level 1 replaces the factory amp with the Audison amp, which has an award winning on board DSP. Level 2 replaces the factory amp and speakers with all Audison drop-in components. No cutting, hacking, or running wires. And no need to replace HU, because the on-board Audison DSP tunes the sound.
http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=50
http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=50
Anywho.... I am going to email them tonight and report back when they respond. Thanx for the heads up.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
10-30-2016, 10:01 PM
#10
Platinum Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
From what I understand of the Prima "Porsche specific" upgrade is that there is nothing proprietary about it. They're just pooling together raw products that's work in a 997 and sending you to an authorized dealer for professional install. Speaker adapters still need to be made and there are no plug and play harnesses.
I have a lot of knowledge in this area that could be helpful here to the OP, but I'm a bit confused. What are you actually trying to accomplish and why?
I have a lot of knowledge in this area that could be helpful here to the OP, but I'm a bit confused. What are you actually trying to accomplish and why?
10-30-2016, 10:04 PM
#11
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
From what I understand of the Prima "Porsche specific" upgrade is that there is nothing proprietary about it. They're just pooling together raw products that's work in a 997 and sending you to an authorized dealer for professional install. Speaker adapters still need to be made and there are no plug and play harnesses.
I have a lot of knowledge in this area that could be helpful here to the OP, but I'm a bit confused. What are you actually trying to accomplish and why?
I have a lot of knowledge in this area that could be helpful here to the OP, but I'm a bit confused. What are you actually trying to accomplish and why?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
10-30-2016, 10:13 PM
#12
Platinum Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Okay, maybe I'm just having a tough time with the wording, but is he starting with ASK and trying to retrofit a Bose amp? Or starting with Bose and trying to upgrade to aftermarket?
10-31-2016, 01:51 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
From what I understand of the Prima "Porsche specific" upgrade is that there is nothing proprietary about it. They're just pooling together raw products that's work in a 997 and sending you to an authorized dealer for professional install. Speaker adapters still need to be made and there are no plug and play harnesses.
I have a lot of knowledge in this area that could be helpful here to the OP, but I'm a bit confused. What are you actually trying to accomplish and why?
I have a lot of knowledge in this area that could be helpful here to the OP, but I'm a bit confused. What are you actually trying to accomplish and why?
I believe they also pre-load the DSP with software "tweaked" for the 997 from Audison engineers so that you do not need to tune by ear and also is tuned to run with the factory subwoofer and its amp.
And of course, they are trying to get you to have it installed by their dealer network, which 90% of people looking to stay as OEM-like as possible would do anyways.
Of course it's not gonna sound as good as ripping everything out and going full aftermarket, but that's not what the Prima line is for.
From their website:
PORSCHE PACKAGES
PORSCHE PACKAGE 1
PORSCHE 997/997.2 2005-2011/12 (WITH PCM2 OR PCM3 RADIOS AND BOSE SYSTEM)
LEVEL 1: AUDIO UPGRADE WITH FACTORY RADIO AND FACTORY SPEAKERS
Audison bit DMI
Audison AP8.9 bit amplifier replaces amp in factory spot in front boot
CH 1/2 drive factory tweeter midrange combination
CH 3/4 (bridged) to drive factory woofers in door
CH 5/6 (bridged) to drive factory woofers in door
CH 7/8 drive factory rear speakers
CH 9 sends signal through our DSP to the factory amplifier attached to factory subwoofer enclosure behind rear seats
LEVEL 2: SPEAKER UPGRADE
Audison AP1 tweeter in factory location
Audison AP4 midrange in factory location
Audison AP8 woofer in factory location
Factory rears and subwoofer are retained
LEVEL 3: CONNECTIVITY/TECHNOLOGY UPGRADE
See Authorized dealer for compatibility and more detailed information
*Depending on the package level chosen, the upgrade to your vehicle can be done in as little as 1 day. Imagine dropping your vehicle off like you do for a routine maintenance and having it back in better condition than when you dropped it off.
10-31-2016, 10:01 AM
#14
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
There is something odd about that harness and the description.... I sent an email directly to Audison last night.... The harness is loaded with pins and no fiber optics.... hmmm... and they note in your pasted description the front boot..... sorry, the amp is under the seat in a 997.2.... I will report my findings later.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Peace
Bruce in Philly
10-31-2016, 12:41 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
There is something odd about that harness and the description.... I sent an email directly to Audison last night.... The harness is loaded with pins and no fiber optics.... hmmm... and they note in your pasted description the front boot..... sorry, the amp is under the seat in a 997.2.... I will report my findings later.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Peace
Bruce in Philly
http://www.audison.eu/download.php?f...eet_tech_sheet