What do you expect for $100K?
08-26-2016, 12:32 AM
#76
Rennlist Member
Carrera
Carrera S
Carrera 4
Targa
Cabrio
GT3
GT2
Turbo
Turbo S
I don't want to keep typing the rest.
All of these trims are just options added to a tub.
The options for this car ARE what its about and what makes it so versatile.
08-26-2016, 01:27 AM
#77
Rennlist Member
08-26-2016, 08:12 AM
#78
Race Director
da fuq? The 911 is the most highly optioned car on the planet:
Carrera
Carrera S
Carrera 4
Targa
Cabrio
GT3
GT2
Turbo
Turbo S
I don't want to keep typing the rest.
All of these trims are just options added to a tub.
The options for this car ARE what its about and what makes it so versatile.
Carrera
Carrera S
Carrera 4
Targa
Cabrio
GT3
GT2
Turbo
Turbo S
I don't want to keep typing the rest.
All of these trims are just options added to a tub.
The options for this car ARE what its about and what makes it so versatile.
What you are referencing are trim levels, not options.
Full leather is an option. carbon trim is an option. carbon ceramics are an option. a turbo vs. A carrera is a change in the base vehicle, not an option
08-26-2016, 09:08 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Quadcammer
Being slightly pedantic, no?
What you are referencing are trim levels, not options.
Full leather is an option. carbon trim is an option. carbon ceramics are an option. a turbo vs. A carrera is a change in the base vehicle, not an option
What you are referencing are trim levels, not options.
Full leather is an option. carbon trim is an option. carbon ceramics are an option. a turbo vs. A carrera is a change in the base vehicle, not an option
I think my point is that though yes you're right the car is considered different 'trim' going from a C2S to a turbo, 'trim' IMO is just a packaged option. It's Porsche being pedants in this case. We are used to seeing these packaged options swing from $80k to $200k so building our own 'trim' within a Porsche described trim with options is how we differentiate the car from others. It's why I've never heard anyone else describe their M3 or C7 corvette as a unicorn.
There are four different types of seats you could order for the 997. Standard, ventilated, sport adaptive and buckets. Each of them changes the feeling of driving the car and purpose of the car dramatically. As does moving from a C2S to a turbo (granted changing the seats isn't as big a step as that but that's the point).
08-26-2016, 09:45 AM
#80
Race Director
Yes and no. Point taken on trim v option but then what's a 4GTS? It's trim labeling semantics from Porsche for an optioned 4S.
I think my point is that though yes you're right the car is considered different 'trim' going from a C2S to a turbo, 'trim' IMO is just a packaged option. It's Porsche being pedants in this case. We are used to seeing these packaged options swing from $80k to $200k so building our own 'trim' within a Porsche described trim with options is how we differentiate the car from others. It's why I've never heard anyone else describe their M3 or C7 corvette as a unicorn.
There are four different types of seats you could order for the 997. Standard, ventilated, sport adaptive and buckets. Each of them changes the feeling of driving the car and purpose of the car dramatically. As does moving from a C2S to a turbo (granted changing the seats isn't as big a step as that but that's the point).
I think my point is that though yes you're right the car is considered different 'trim' going from a C2S to a turbo, 'trim' IMO is just a packaged option. It's Porsche being pedants in this case. We are used to seeing these packaged options swing from $80k to $200k so building our own 'trim' within a Porsche described trim with options is how we differentiate the car from others. It's why I've never heard anyone else describe their M3 or C7 corvette as a unicorn.
There are four different types of seats you could order for the 997. Standard, ventilated, sport adaptive and buckets. Each of them changes the feeling of driving the car and purpose of the car dramatically. As does moving from a C2S to a turbo (granted changing the seats isn't as big a step as that but that's the point).
Para stated that 911s are all about options. To me, it appeared that he was more concerned about whether the vents are leather wrapped than the actual experience of the chassis, engine, etc. Given his background, I believe this may have simply been a wording deficiency.
I think that most would agree that a base 997, with nary an additional option, is still a very enjoyable car to drive. Adding options that are valued to you makes it more enjoyable, but I'd say not transformative.
08-26-2016, 10:05 AM
#81
To an extent, options arrive from customer driven requests. Just glad the seats, PCM and steering wheel are included in the base price.
But to all the people who like to buy used cars, options help these cars to get sold. Then down the line they come.....
But to all the people who like to buy used cars, options help these cars to get sold. Then down the line they come.....
08-26-2016, 11:32 AM
#82
Burning Brakes
The only thing from the list above that my car doesn't have is the sunroof delete option which would've been nice to have but not a deal breaker at all.
The 997.2 (late models at least), already have xenons and bluetooth so the only option on my car was the 19 inch wheels that I'm going to replace eventually anyways.
Below you can see my car's "superleggera" build sheet
08-26-2016, 11:39 AM
#83
ok, I gotta chime in too and I have had similar ideas and thinking as the op. Are Porsche 911s really worth $100k?
Just a little history, I have been a car and driver guy for over 30 years. The Porsche 911 is a car that most of us grew up reading about in the magazines and dreaming about owning some day. It represents an incredible racing heritage, performance, and unique driving experience that really does create life long enthusiasts for most who are fortunate enough to own/drive one. On a superficial level, it also represents a level of achievement or financial income. People want to be seen in a car that represents their level of "success" and Porsche represents people who most likely earn 100k plus.
I have been a die hard Porsche fanatic and owner for 16 years. I admired them from afar when I was younger, but once I drove one, it became my mission to own one. Now I own several and purchased all of them gently used and letting the original owners take most of the depreciation hit.
I remember walking around the Porsche parking lot at a special intro day around 2005 when the introduction of the 997 happened. I remember looking at nicely optioned 2005 Carrera S 997 for 100k and honestly thinking they were a bargain. Being a car guy I could totally justify the price when I would think about the performance, quality, heritage, brand, and looks. When I saw the 997 it was the first 911 that I felt in my gut that I HAVE to have it some day and new at $100k I felt it was worth it. My 2006 C4S is a very nicely optioned 911 that stickered at $115k new. I Purchased it in 2010 gently used with cpo and only 6300 miles on it for about 60% of the original price.
Today I have to admit that as big as a Porsche fan that I am... I started to get really annoyed with Porsche marketing and pricing starting with option prices on the 997.2. Suddenly in 2009 there was $20k jump in pricing for options added to almost every car and those options basically being electronic gadgets and gizmos. Especially when these gadgets come standard on cars costing $20k new!!! From 2012-Present the pricing of all porsche options just makes me angry. I can no longer justify spending $30-40k for gadgets and options on any car. Suddenly I honestly started to question if the 911 was worth the asking price any more, especially when the options cost more then a decent new car!
Today, a nice Carrera S with good options is pushing 150k out the door. I honestly now think that new Porsches are no longer worth their asking prices.
Just a little history, I have been a car and driver guy for over 30 years. The Porsche 911 is a car that most of us grew up reading about in the magazines and dreaming about owning some day. It represents an incredible racing heritage, performance, and unique driving experience that really does create life long enthusiasts for most who are fortunate enough to own/drive one. On a superficial level, it also represents a level of achievement or financial income. People want to be seen in a car that represents their level of "success" and Porsche represents people who most likely earn 100k plus.
I have been a die hard Porsche fanatic and owner for 16 years. I admired them from afar when I was younger, but once I drove one, it became my mission to own one. Now I own several and purchased all of them gently used and letting the original owners take most of the depreciation hit.
I remember walking around the Porsche parking lot at a special intro day around 2005 when the introduction of the 997 happened. I remember looking at nicely optioned 2005 Carrera S 997 for 100k and honestly thinking they were a bargain. Being a car guy I could totally justify the price when I would think about the performance, quality, heritage, brand, and looks. When I saw the 997 it was the first 911 that I felt in my gut that I HAVE to have it some day and new at $100k I felt it was worth it. My 2006 C4S is a very nicely optioned 911 that stickered at $115k new. I Purchased it in 2010 gently used with cpo and only 6300 miles on it for about 60% of the original price.
Today I have to admit that as big as a Porsche fan that I am... I started to get really annoyed with Porsche marketing and pricing starting with option prices on the 997.2. Suddenly in 2009 there was $20k jump in pricing for options added to almost every car and those options basically being electronic gadgets and gizmos. Especially when these gadgets come standard on cars costing $20k new!!! From 2012-Present the pricing of all porsche options just makes me angry. I can no longer justify spending $30-40k for gadgets and options on any car. Suddenly I honestly started to question if the 911 was worth the asking price any more, especially when the options cost more then a decent new car!
Today, a nice Carrera S with good options is pushing 150k out the door. I honestly now think that new Porsches are no longer worth their asking prices.
Using this tool (and I have no idea how accurate it is): http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ The 2006 911 C4S model would price out at approximately $142k in today's dollars. Possibly the "good old" days weren't as "good" as we want to remember them as. We all vote with our purchases. If we like, we buy. If we don't like, we don't buy. Eventually, every business gets the message.
08-26-2016, 12:06 PM
#84
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Hmmm, a bit perplexed by this thread 
. Don't spend the money if you don't wan to. People will differ in what they expect. I don't see me spending $100K on a car, but i spent 68 including taxes (54.4% of the msrp with options when new) and i don't feel bad about it - . If it bothers you, get a different car.
Is it worth it? Sure to some it is - I have always been a new car buyer in the past and was always happy even though i knew the depreciation hit was coming. I can get an awesome new car for 65-70, but opted (not settled ) for the CPOd 2009 C4S last year. I feel better about this buy than a new car at the same price point.
. Don't spend the money if you don't wan to. People will differ in what they expect. I don't see me spending $100K on a car, but i spent 68 including taxes (54.4% of the msrp with options when new) and i don't feel bad about it - . If it bothers you, get a different car. Is it worth it? Sure to some it is - I have always been a new car buyer in the past and was always happy even though i knew the depreciation hit was coming. I can get an awesome new car for 65-70, but opted (not settled ) for the CPOd 2009 C4S last year. I feel better about this buy than a new car at the same price point.
08-26-2016, 12:25 PM
#85
I was browsing my local dealer's inventory (online) as I do maybe once or twice a month, just to see what's there. I immediately thought back to this thread when I came across a new 2017 C4S with an ask of $153K on their lot. I mean really?! That's absurd. I guess someone will pay it... but it seems that person would have more money than sense. You can get a LOT of car for $153K. We're talking a mint, extremely low mileage pre-owned Turbo, or if NA is your preference, GT3 or GTS. Why someone would pay $150K for any run-of-the-mill 911 is beyond me. Exceptions can be made for the true collector's cars, but this was just a plain 'ol C4S.
I think it boils down to the fact that enthusiasts and Rennlisters (was that redundant?) out there are interested in the drive, and when it comes to improving the drive they know what is an important option and what isn't. I guess one never should say never... but I cannot fathom ever buying a brand new Porsche, no matter what my financial situation is. Even if I had $150K to spend on a single vehicle, I would not go down to the local dealer and order up a custom build with a ton of options knowing full well that I could buy something a couple of years old with the options I care about for a huge discount. But I guess we all should be thankful there are people out there that do buy these crazy high-optioned builds... it makes the secondary market better when they bore of the car in 2-3 years or when the lease term runs. Good for me!
I think it boils down to the fact that enthusiasts and Rennlisters (was that redundant?) out there are interested in the drive, and when it comes to improving the drive they know what is an important option and what isn't. I guess one never should say never... but I cannot fathom ever buying a brand new Porsche, no matter what my financial situation is. Even if I had $150K to spend on a single vehicle, I would not go down to the local dealer and order up a custom build with a ton of options knowing full well that I could buy something a couple of years old with the options I care about for a huge discount. But I guess we all should be thankful there are people out there that do buy these crazy high-optioned builds... it makes the secondary market better when they bore of the car in 2-3 years or when the lease term runs. Good for me!
08-26-2016, 12:42 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Quadcammer
I think that most would agree that a base 997, with nary an additional option, is still a very enjoyable car to drive. Adding options that are valued to you makes it more enjoyable, but I'd say not transformative.
A C2 with sport buckets, 6MT, no interior options, 19in ZRs, PASM, PCCB and an Aerokit as a canyon carver and track car is transformative IMO.
08-26-2016, 01:12 PM
#87
Race Director
for what its worth and because I just saw it. My 993TT stickered for $99,000 in 96. With one option (floor mats), gas guzzler, and destination, it rang the bell to the tune of $102,455.
08-26-2016, 01:13 PM
#88
Race Director
Agree to disagree then. Yes, a C2 with ventilated seats, PDK, NAV, BOSE, Satellite Radio, heated mirrors full leather, 18in rubber pillows and a multifunction wheel is going to be an awesome place to spend your trip to work.
A C2 with sport buckets, 6MT, no interior options, 19in ZRs, PASM, PCCB and an Aerokit as a canyon carver and track car is transformative IMO.
A C2 with sport buckets, 6MT, no interior options, 19in ZRs, PASM, PCCB and an Aerokit as a canyon carver and track car is transformative IMO.
08-26-2016, 02:00 PM
#89
Three Wheelin'
08-26-2016, 05:33 PM
#90
Race Car
Right, so there are definitely options that impact the driving experience greatly, such as PCCBs, LWBs, or the X51 stuff.
Para stated that 911s are all about options. To me, it appeared that he was more concerned about whether the vents are leather wrapped than the actual experience of the chassis, engine, etc. Given his background, I believe this may have simply been a wording deficiency.
I think that most would agree that a base 997, with nary an additional option, is still a very enjoyable car to drive. Adding options that are valued to you makes it more enjoyable, but I'd say not transformative.
Para stated that 911s are all about options. To me, it appeared that he was more concerned about whether the vents are leather wrapped than the actual experience of the chassis, engine, etc. Given his background, I believe this may have simply been a wording deficiency.
I think that most would agree that a base 997, with nary an additional option, is still a very enjoyable car to drive. Adding options that are valued to you makes it more enjoyable, but I'd say not transformative.