WV997S

What is the book value of your car and have you asked them why the offer is significantly below KBB or NADA? I would be interested to know the answer.

vbb

They are offering me slightly below what the Blue Book says the trade value of my car is. Meanwhile, they are asking for the higher end of retail value for their cars. I get that that's part of the game, but the different variable here is that if you look in a nationwide search on any of the major sites, PCA mags, and private listings for 2009 c2's with the same mileage and similar options to my car every single one of them is up for sale for in the 40s.

Much has been discussed on this forum about how Blue Book doesn't accurately define the market for 911's. It seems to work well for other luxury Brands like Lexus and BMW, but for Porsche not so much. The dealerships I have been talking to seem to understand that, but yet point to the Blue Book when it is convenient for them for my trade. It simply doesn't make sense that they are telling me the most they could give me is low thirties for my car, and meanwhile they are listing a car 3-4 years older with the same mileage for low forties. Knowing that they are trying to sell me on the fact that the trade value of my car is only somewhere in the low 30s and then they will list my car for sale for $45,000 is the reason why I can't do the deal. Now if they would knock 8 to $10,000 off of the car that they are trying to sell maybe we have something, but they aren't willing to move on that end either. Of course I expect some mark up, that's business, but the gap is so wide. Since this is the first Porsche I've ever tried to trade, I was just curious if this is what to expect with these cars.

daddyscar

I have 2009 C2 cab, manual, pretty loaded with 38k miles. Low $40's was what I saw for trade-in when I casually looked online. Considering mileage difference and being a cab, I guess low $30's isn't too far off. Despite most of us here on the 997 forum favoring our cars, 991's in the low $60's is tempting for most 911 shoppers.

You can always get your car detailed, list it for high $30's and be very selective on who you respond to. You might find that one right buyer that's not too uptight, you know, a non-rennlister. haha.

I recently sold a 2013 CR-V myself. There was nothing wrong with it and I just waited for someone to take my asking price. In April I got a new Land Cruiser and traded in my 2008 G500 with 68k miles for $45k. I could have sold it myself for $49k but there were a couple minor annoying issues with it I'd be too honest about. Dealer didn't even wash it and listed for sale for $63k! It's still at Toyota Marin all detailed with a $51k asking price.

Strelok

You're almost never going to get a great deal on a trade-in. You're paying for the convenience of not having to sell the car. If it were me, I'd suck it up and do a private sale. Between RL, Craigslist and Autotrader it's not too hard to find a motivated buyer pretty quick these days.

WV997S

I am with you on this and see what you are saying but I really dont have an answer. I always determine what I think my car is worth compared to what I think the car I am trading for is worth and work off that number. When I focus on the difference, the trade-in and retail mean less. I think if you really want to trade sometimes facing the reality of what our car is really worth is not an easy thing. I cannot imagine a dealer not being willing to get your car into the 40s however.

The biggest downside to our cars may just be that it is easier to finance a 991 based on model year. A person looking to finance a 2013 vs a 2009 will face a significantly easier time finding financing for 2013.

My advice would be go slow and don't dig yourself a deeper hole by jumping out of your car too soon and into one that may depreciate even faster. It is a great car.

mjsporsche

I have toyed with the idea of moving to a 991S but after crunching the numbers, I just do not believe I would be getting more enjoyment compared to my low mileage 2008 C2S to justify the delta.

Unless you are ok spending the incremental amount, I would just enjoy what you have and drive a few two lane roads this weekend and put a big grin on your face and then you might re commit to your 997.

vbb

I think your theories are correct, and you speak words of wisdom.

This experience has taught me a valuable lesson in appreciating what I already have rather than looking across the street for the next best thing. I do feel that I have a great car, and it's one that I know and a maintenance history that I trust.

A GTS or a Turbo would be a better car, but not so much better than what I already have that it would be worth the hassle and the huge depreciation hit I would have to take to get one.

vbb

Bingo.

Ynot

First problem, it's a base and not a S, 2nd problem, it's not manual, MT is popular with the 997 models. 3rd problem, it's black, far too common, and too many choices with a lot lower miles. 4th problem is the mileage. From my experience, used car buyers are a lot more picky than new ones. It's a buyer's market and they can do that.

Ynot

Same here, my mods are extensive and I will get nothing for it in the used market. At 30K or even 40K, I rather give it to my brother or brothers in law to enjoy rather than benefit someone I don't know.

Iceter

First of all, a customer who sends an email asking what he can expect for his trade is not a serious customer. If you want to know what a dealership will pay for your car, you need to be at the store, with the car and have a car there that you're interested in buying.

A store makes money on the sale, the financing, the backend, the trade--and they want to combine all of these methods to maximize profit and obfuscate so that the customer doesn't know how much they're making. It's the nature of the business.

Giving their best price via email based on pictures is a risky bet on their part with no upside. Customers don't come into a store because they're offered a great trade-in price and then pick out a car to buy. They pick out a car to buy and then negotiate the trade.

Not to mention the fact that lots of P-car customers come in, pay full sticker and practically give their trade away. In the trade, that customer is known as a lay-down. Why would a dealer give you his best offer when you may very well be the biggest laydown he's ever encountered? Every dealer will try to box the trade on the first go-round.

If you want one of their cars, you'll come in or send someone over to look at it. At that point, they'll take you a little more seriously.

vbb

All things I know, but thanks. Obviously if a dealer is looking for a lay down, they're not getting that in me. I get that there are several Porsche buyers out there with more money than sense that would go in, give away a trade, and then pay sticker for a car. Good for the dealerships that get their business. I know that I would be a much harder sale, and obviously would show up in person if we were close to a deal. But I also am not going to waste my time if we're not even in the same ballpark. I am very upfront and honest with the dealerships that I contact. I tell them I am looking for a specific type of car, they happen to have one of those on their lot, and I am interested in seeing if we can get close enough on a deal for us to meet in person. I provide them with any and everything that they ask for, and have compiled most of the things I am asked for into one document so I have it at the ready. I do not go in there demanding a price or demanding they lower the price of their car. I tell them that I have serious interest in their car but unless they are within about 50 miles of where I am located, I realize there's no point in me coming to check it out if we can never get close on some preliminary numbers. I figure the worst that can happen is I take 15 minutes out of my day and the dealership has contact information for somebody who may be a buyer in the future.

This whole thread was not me complaining about the business of car dealerships, but rather an attempt to maybe understand more about the used Porsche market. Like I said, I have traded many cars in to dealerships in the past, and although I know I am getting less than if I were to sell the car private party, I always get near a number that seems fair and allows the dealership to make a healthy profit. One of two things must be true given the information I have discovered. Either the mark-up/profit margins on Porsche used cars is much greater than most other cars, or all of the cars that I see for sale that are similar to mine (997.2 C2 w/45k+ miles and PDK) are being listed high but selling low.

Rikky001

Fully agree. trading in is easy but at a cost. Selling a Porsche privately can be a real pain. So far I have been lucky that I could sell some of my Porsches to fellow Porsche Club members easily. Most people know the appropriate value of the car and as long you don't need the money you can say no to redicolous offers. If you buy a new Porsche, if your Porsche is in an easy- to-sell colour and has the minimum options and is in good condition than you might be able to work out a "good" deal were both parties are happy. Go to the dealer on Friday an hour before closing I found as giving me the best result.

Rikky001

Think the answer is easy; some people buying a Porsche have money enough to not need to discuss about the price, same for the trade-in price. Some have no interest as they just want a new Porsche and trade-in the Porsche at whatever the dealer is offering as the process involves just paperwork and cost some money. If you have lots of it, why bother?

vbb

While I would agree with you that there are some people that are so wealthy that they literally don't even look at Price and buy whatever they want even if it's a $150,000 Porsche, I do not think that is most Porsche buyers. I'm preparing to buy a $75,000 used vehicle that I'm only planning on driving a few thousand miles a year, and that will ultimately be a 4th vehicle between me and my wife, but even still I'm not about to just give a few extra $1,000 to a dealership by negotiating a bad deal. Sure, it is a hassle to do with the low offers, but it is worth it to me, and I'm neither so frustrated nor so desperate to trade that I'm just going to give money away.