When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
The non-GT 911's feel much more refined and as a result are generally better street cars than the GT3.
Outside of subjectivity, Carreras (non-GT 911s) have more suspension bushings (i.e. bushing between suspension subframe and frame vs GT3 having no bushing there - fluid filled bushing on LCA/trailing arm vs GT3 cars solid rubber) softer spring rates, softer damper settings and thinner/more flexible sways. Outside a bit of weight savings on the GT3 , that's it for suspension differences.
GT3s are just as 'refined' but I know what you mean... not trying to distort your meaning with semantics. I'd just like to clarify that they are simply designed to react to the surface input differently that Carreras. Both cars are equally refined as far as fit and finish. Carreras are designed to absorb more road input forces (via bushing and coilover design) where GT3 is designed to reflect that road input as either forces acting on driver controls or forces acting on the road.
As someone who went from an '07S to an '07 GT3, as others above have stated, they are just very different cars. They just feel different, from the gearbox to the brakes, to the exquisite sense of control, even the exhaust note. The GT3 have a tautness that other variants just can't match. Perhaps a few more ponies may not be all that noticeable on the race course, but if a driver is better able to feel, with confidence, what the car is doing, then that driver may be a bit quicker. The drivetrain on the earlier GT3's is totally different than on the S cars. And ah..., the way the Mezger just revs and revs is absolutely inspiring. It just howls as it runs to redline.
But in the end, one has to justify the cost of a GT3. Here is ours, which has the carbon buckets, and the no muffler Sharkwerk's exhaust. My wife loved our prior S Porsche, and absolutely refuses to ride in this one. They are truly beastly things.
I have a gt3 and my dad has a c2s. It is much easier to drive a c2s fast than it is a gt3. Gt3 is a lot more involving for the driver and as everyone has mentioned that is a big part of what makes
The gt3 fun and more fun to drive. Once you learn how to drive a gt3 fast on the track, it's an experience that isn't replaceable.
in a typical track setting, equal skill low/intermediate drivers in a 7.2 CS vs a bone stock 7.1 GT3, the CS will be roughly equal for lap times IMO...
more skilled/advanced drivers can handle the 7.1 GT3's low front spring rate and jittery feel, and extract a faster lap time than in a 7.2CS, particularly if the stock CS lacks LSD
most frequently track-going 7.1 GT3's will see their front end suspensions improved, along with a stronger than stock LSD... it will be a noticeable bit faster than a CS in the hands of a good driver who knows the GT3...you will be able to brake later and dive harder into turns and the HP difference/engine response of the Mezger in the high-rev range (where the good driver will stay) will see the GT3 pull harder out of corners and down straights
this being said, the lap time differences will not be huge either way (for example, tires will make a big difference between the cars, as much if not more than drivers)... but the quality of the driving experience in the GT3 will greatly exceed a 7.2 CS... this gap is BIG
the Carrera S is a very very good car... faults notwithstanding, the GT3 is one of the true all time greats
Last edited by golfnutintib; 01-22-2016 at 02:36 AM.
Reason: bad typing in an airport lounge
Rich,
I know you are at PBOC Sebring this weekend. I did the Thursday & Friday lapping days there with BGB. You may want to talk to John Tecce (owner) to discuss another option. John has done a number of 997.2 3.8L X51 conversions on Caymans and 997s. His price for the X51 motor from PCNA, including the two year factory warranty, is $17,000 plus your motor and plus labor. The stock X51 motor is rated at 408hp. Add a freer flowing exhaust and the tune they offer and you'll have a brand new motor with significantly more power than a .1 GT3. Plus two years of factory warranty.
You can duplicate the GT3 suspension for a reasonable price as others have said. This may be an option for you if you like your car and just want some additional performance. BGB is setup there at the far end on the grass just outside the paddock area. Trakcar's UV RS should be with them (he was Thursday & Friday) as well as as a NorCal RL'ers red GT4. They are also setup in the hotpits at the end closest to pitout. They are supporting a 987 Cayman racecar (#38) that has this engine conversion. Jim, the owner, was doing 2:19s in the Enduro Thursday night.
John is a great guy. You should seek him out while you are there. Looks like you guys have great weather for the weekend!
Mike
Originally Posted by RichFL
I have an 2011 carrera S that I drive on the street and do about 20 DE track days a year. I've been thinking about buying a GT3. I'd want to pay less than $100,000 so I'd be looking at a 2007 or perhaps 2008. I checked the specs on a 2007 and they show 415 hp @ 7,600 rpm and 300 lb-ft of torque at 5,500 rpm. Redline is 8,400 rpm. My Carrera S produces 385 hp @6,500 and 310 lb-ft @4,400 and redlines at 7,500. Ignoring handling differences for a moment, I'm wondering how much faster the GT3 is going to be?
I can tell you that in my 408hp GTS following a friend in his 2007 GT3 coming out of Sebring T16 together his GT3 would out pace my GTS be at least 3-4 car lengths. A 2007-08 GT3 in stock form vs you Carrera S is at least 4secs a lap faster...
Can't really go by posted hp/to numbers because the gearing is different and the way the GT3 delivers the power makes all the difference.
Other than that...I 100% agree with Cloudspin....seriously talk to John at BGB...Id rather have a track/street X51 3.8L 9a1 Cayman than a 2007 GT3.... Serious fun, reliable bad azz cars
Originally Posted by RichFL
I have an 2011 carrera S that I drive on the street and do about 20 DE track days a year. I've been thinking about buying a GT3. I'd want to pay less than $100,000 so I'd be looking at a 2007 or perhaps 2008. I checked the specs on a 2007 and they show 415 hp @ 7,600 rpm and 300 lb-ft of torque at 5,500 rpm. Redline is 8,400 rpm. My Carrera S produces 385 hp @6,500 and 310 lb-ft @4,400 and redlines at 7,500. Ignoring handling differences for a moment, I'm wondering how much faster the GT3 is going to be?
Mike - good to hear from you. Things are good here and I hope they are with you and yours. A belated Happy New Years. I was at PBOC this weekend and someone said BGB had a GT4 with a 4.0 engine in it. I can only dream - lol.
Just a heads up to the original post. Although some great data here please keep in mind he is talking about a 997.2s car vs a 997.1 gt3 car. Not a 997.1s vs 997.1 gt3.
Mike - good to hear from you. Things are good here and I hope they are with you and yours. A belated Happy New Years. I was at PBOC this weekend and someone said BGB had a GT4 with a 4.0 engine in it. I can only dream - lol.
You still have that nice silver convertible you let me drive?...wow that was so cool and fun!
BGB is the place...they know there stuff...great outfit. Talk to them as they have many options.
Thanks everyone. I should have mentioned that while there's plenty of room to improve my driving, I did hire a pro-driver for a day. My Carrera S has minor suspension mods which includes stiffer sway bars, more negative camber than stock and a TPC DSC. I drive to the track so I don't run R compound tires.
I guess its my ego, but when I hit the straightaways the GT's, Turbos, Z06's walk (perhaps run) away from me. The cars are out there but admittedly hard to find. Regardless of where purchased, I think a PPI, DSC report and a compression test are necessary.
I have a 996 turbo slightly moded for track, it runs away from 997.2 Gt3 even the .2RS still doesn't have enough to keep up to it on longer straights. With a 997.1 GT3 there are a ton of cars that will still make you feel as slow as what your experiencing now with your 997.2S. I believe the new 991.2S will also be able to take on the 997.1 GT3 np. While the 997.1 GT3 may not really be that much quicker then what you all ready have, the car with it's aero looks nicer, center exhaust and the engine. You should be able to hit higher corner speed with it which should allow you to drop lap times but not significantly.
I LOVE the GT3, but it takes a certain type of love to choose a GT3 as one's daily driver. It's not only the ride, actually I think I'd enjoy driving a GT3 on most roads.. for me, the problem is a matter of being constantly self conscious about riding around with something that extreme every day. I mean, the GT3 is loud...with that wing akin to a WRX STI, and with such low clearance while having the extra long front lip that's gotta get banged up around town. A GT3 would have me on edge if used as a daily driver. That's why I'd prefer a 911S or even better, a GTS.
Mike - I still have the Ferrari although its been in the shop as I was rear ended. Fortunately, it was a light tap and only required replacement of the bumper cover. I was really mad when it happened even though the other driver was a young, good looking and nicely dressed woman.
01-21-2016, 04:56 PM
