Para82

Local dealership had a 997.1 with over 240,000 miles in for service...

Wayne Smith

50 years ago The Magic Mileage was 40K. At that point you were seeing the confluence of tires, shocks, major tune up (including plugs cap, rotor, points, wires, dwell, timing, etc.), oil, filters, lube, brakes, water pump, alignment, clutch if MT, etc. And if your roads were salted then you had rust to contend with and the concern that the driver's seat might fall through the floor as you encountered a pot hole! So that was when you debated a trade in.

Given proper maintenance, I figure in a modern car 100K should not be any closer than half way to the finish line. There will always be lemons, but cars are amazing these days compared to not so long ago!

For full disclosure, the Econoline I mentioned above with 300K was a 1965. I rebuilt the motor once, replaced the motor later (pulled another from a junk yard wreck), rebuilt the transmission twice, rebuilt the rear end, replaced rusted out wheels, welded up the frame with metal bracing to compensate for rust more times than I can count, replaced the steering, had the heater box fall out and leave my legs exposed to winter wind for 2000 miles on a cross country trip in January, repaired damages due to carb fires twice (in the middle of nowhere), rebuilt the carb 50 miles beyond nowhere using the ball of a ball point pen for a leaking float check (avoiding a third fire), rebuilt the motor again, ... well, you get the idea!

I'm thinking 300K for my 2010 C4S, due in about ten more years. Not so long ago, beyond my work horses, I swapped cars like I changed my clothes. I have developed some mechanical loyalty recently, and this is especially so for the 911!

Dennis C

My 996 C4S had about 140K miles when I sold it. My Cayenne had over 150K. My best so far was a 1993 Isuzu Trooper. I bought it new and I sold it with 242K miles (still on the original clutch!).

Edgy01

The magic number continues to go up in reality because they are so much better made. But it is hard for a culture to get over magic numbers like 40,000 miles or 100,000 miles.

Germans used to laugh at how Americans would buy diesel engined Mercedes Benz and trade them at 40,000 because that's what Americans do. For a diesel engine car it's just starting to get broken in at 50,000 or 75,000 miles, so it is ridiculous to trade them away so early.

As Freeman alluded to, The majority of Germans don't consider a Porsche practical auto to own. They're expensive and they don't haul that much stuff. Once you're outside 50 km of Stuttgart you just don't see them very often. I lived in Germany in the 60s and the 70s and spent a lot of time there in the 80s on business. Germany has certainly gotten to be much wealthier but that doesn't necessarily equate to a greater number of Porsches on the road. They're just impractical.

We need to get over our hangup about mileage. We need to focus on driving these things and enjoying them for what they are. If you buried it in your garage and never get to use it you're missing out. I'm coming up on hundred thousand on my 06 and it's running like a top. And then I have a friend with a Boxster and a Cayman--both from 06 and neither of them have reached 17,000 miles yet. It will be a happy day for some new second owner!

IslandS52

This thread is certainly making me feel better about the 79k on my C2S and the 90k on my Cayenne S.

slicky rick

40k on my c2s and this thing for sure will get to 100k with me.

Bruce In Philly

Two issues:

1) History of American made, planned obsolescence junk
2) American pretense of need, showy, braggartism

I remember back in the 70s.... if a car even could hit 100K miles, it looked and drove like hell. Rust holes, cracked dash, torn seats, sagging suspension, leaks leaks leaks.... etc. etc. My dad would always say "You're lucky if you get 40K from a water pump". Replacing ball joints was like filling up with gas... you just did it with a regular frequency. Quality did not come with higher priced cars... that water pump in the Caddy came from the same factory with the same parts that went into the Chevy.

Regarding item 2 above.... well that is just who we are as reproduction-seeking animals. It is what an economy becomes after Maslow's fundamental needs of food and shelter are met... we have moved to a newer phase called "consumerism" and "need" is now nothing what folks of just 100 years ago would believe. I didn't need 50% of what hangs in my closet (my wife? try 99%). Notice how houses built 50 years ago have just a tiny closet for each bedroom.

It is just the way it is. It is not AMERICAN FLASH.... it is the way of our species and consumerism is a fundamental shift for all humans as affluence spreads around the world. I saw a fascinating exhibition on consumerism in Amsterdam that focused on the global trend and the move in Europe. I read in the Economist something like "so goes California, so goes the USA, so goes Europe, so goes the world"... or something like that. Don't blame the USA, blame your primary drives.... it is what we are.

BTW, I had 197K miles on my 2000 Boxster S when the 2nd engine blew and economically killed the car. Otherwise, I would still be driving it.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

JustinCase

My wife worries about how many miles I am putting on my 2008 C2S Cab, but I don't. I bought it for the *fun* of it, not for the *flash* of it. I use it as my DD, but probably only about 1/2 to 2/3 the time because I frequently need my 1997 Dodge Dakota pickup (185K miles) to haul stuff for work that simply won't fit in my 997. Still, I'm probably only driving my C2S 8,000 to 9,000 miles a year.

My wife and I founded a manufacturing company based on the Toyota Production System (is it okay to say "Toyota" on a Porsche forum?). We started out with a mix of brand new and used equipment, and we maintain them to the max. In our experience, the equipment we bought *new* and performed regular PM on just runs and runs, and runs reliably. Some of the *used* equipment has had to be rebuilt, but then it runs reliably under continued rigorous maintenance.

Toyota thinking seems to be based on the assumptions that equipment should run better and better as a function of time and as a result of learning curves and running technical improvements, and if sacrificial parts are replaced *before* they reach a stage where they degrade performance or damage other parts and systems, then almost any machine can run well forever. Of course, their concept of "wear" parts eventually encompasses the entire machine and may not always be practical.

With respect to my 997, I believe it is better to over-maintain than to over-protect. Every few weeks I spend several hours cleaning and polishing, but here in the Northwest (except for July, August, and September, which are perfect) it is bound to rain for days, anyway. So be it. I watch the water bead up on my front lid and cab top with swelling pride, enjoy the grip my Michelin Pilot Super Sports have on wet roads even below 40 degrees (!), and perform therapy on my sore back with the heated seat. I'm not a concours type of guy, anyway, but my car looks fantastic for a few days every month or so.

Are the hours I spend making my 997 look virtually brand new again wasted? No, at my age and the way I do it, it's great inner core exercise with a lot of stretching and some moderate aerobics. Seems to me to be a lot more worthwhile than chugging away on a treadmill inside in a room full of sweaty. smelly people.

Oh, about the 18-year-old Dodge Dakota with 185K miles: it has not been an exceptional vehicle from the start, but with consistent, timely PM it remains completely dependable with its original engine (does not burn oil) and transmission. The cassette tape player pooped out, though, and I have no plans to replace it.

I also inherited a 190-year-old Seth Thomas mantel clock with wooden works that, with periodic maintenance (i.e., blowing the dust out of the bearing points with compressed air and oiling the metal verge with light oil every few months), it still keeps time within a few seconds a week.

Drive your car every chance you get and focus your energies more on preventative maintenance than preventative storage. Jay Leno has to hire people to help keep all his cars in running condition because they would all deteriorate in place if he didn't.

Carmichael

If the Chicago Bar Association had offered discounts on Porsches to their members instead of Mercedes-Benz vehicles, I may have gone CPO.

My car's on the higher side of 5 digits (83k and counting ...), but the engine was done less than 10k miles ago, and everything else is cherry.

My W124 E300 Diesel has done 352,000 miles. My fiancee and I have put about 35k on the car since we bought it in August 2013. Before that, my daily driver throughout undergrad and law school was a hand-me-down '92 Honda Accord LX that I'd put 221k on (my grandparents had put 90,000 extremely hard miles on her - including four accidents!).

Cars are getting more and more reliable these days, even the "lower end" ones.

dalancroft

Well said! My dearly departed dad (born 1935) used to churn a car right at 100K miles. The last one, a gold T-bird with beige leather seats and a V-8 engine, looked and drove brand-new but ... nope, 98K, time to trade it in.

I've kept several into the 150K range but since I only drive about 8K miles/year, I tend to trade in around 6-7 years. Mostly out of boredom, plus a little infatuation with the latest & greatest tech.

tomc_mets

First car was a 95 Escort GT. Engine rock solid to 180+K miles. Donated it to charity when I was ready to move on and up. Some times it's luck of the draw....T

SpeedyD

Tons of people have 100k mile + Ford products that do really well. They are almost always pickup trucks or Lincoln Town Cars.

Look at the avg mileage of a Ford or GM pickup and they will put German 911 mileage averages to shame...

It is all about usage rates, preferences, etc...

SpeedyD

Also, it will depend on what someone can afford, and how frugal (cheap?) they are.

These cars' valuations are most directly related to mileage above all else.

Think Porsche owners are frugal with the mileage? Check out Ferrari owners. It is crazy to me to see how few miles are often on used Ferraris, even 10 year old cars... At the higher price points, the issue of mileage vs. impact on price gets magnified in both dollar and percentage terms.

The interesting thing is that the average Ferrari owner is much wealthier in terms of net worth, and the cars will typically be a smaller percentage of their total net worth as well... yet the obsession with mileage is even higher.

So, in the end, I think it's economics and psychology in equal measure.

ADias

That is what's wrong. Car values, especially classics, should not be limited by mileage. A car that is not driven, will develop mechanical problems, which in turn perpetuate the non-driving status.

SpeedyD

Yes, but it provides great opportunities to drive great cars at much lower prices (when higher mileage ones, well care for, are available).

I do think there's a happy medium. I would personally avoid cars that were used as someone's "everything" car (unless perhaps if they are in california) because I know how much abuse the elements can throw on a car.

But I don't get people avoiding driving in the rain, avoiding using the car for long trips etc...

Again, just my personal preference.