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You think the PDK v. Manual debate is harsh - spend some time on a bicycling forum. Campy v. Shimano v. SRAM; ; radial lacing v. 3x; rolling resistance of a 21 mm tire v. a 25 mm, etc. Youall are a stodgy, polite group of aristocrats (not the joke but the people) compared to the bitterness that surronds opinions about bikes.
Oh, and now with Garmin GPS (et al.) and electrical shifting can the days be far off when, through electronics, bicycles have nanny systems and are traceable? (And to partially answer my own question, someone at CES is hawking a tracking system for bicycles that is part of the pedal housing.)
SRAM & 29er all the way!
These PDK vs MT threads are so boring so I'm gonna go light up the Fat Tush and point it north on CA 1 and let you desk-jockeys duke it out some more!
Last edited by david; 01-06-2015 at 11:56 PM.
Reason: typo
[QUOTE=Tcc1999;11931903]You think the PDK v. Manual debate is harsh - spend some time on a bicycling forum. Campy v. Shimano v. SRAM; ; radial lacing v. 3x; rolling resistance of a 21 mm tire v. a 25 mm, etc. Youall are a stodgy, polite group of aristocrats (not the joke but the people) compared to the bitterness that surrounds opinions about bikes...QUOTE]
Bicycle tire rolling resistance? I'm definitely in the Luddite camp as I like MN6 997s and I bought this a few months ago :
The nice thing about PDK is I know if I ever do own one my wife will be able to drive it too. Also i'm sure it's fantastic on a track which is another major reason. For street driving I enjoy the classic manual.
Am I understanding correctly that the new manual transmissions have automated rev matching on down shifts? I can appreciate that the PDK/DSG automated transmissions offer better performance and lower maintanence costs that Manual or the torque converter automatics. I would be sad if even rev matching was taken away from us in a manual trans.
At the same time one can look at energy efficiency in food made for use in space but it does not taste the same as a great meal from a great chef. There is a part of life that is about the "art" in things. Perhaps that is why almost all F1 drivers (including Senna and Schmacher) consider the best of the best to be Fangio...and they say that based on what he did with what he had. But that is about the art of human talent not the art of the technology.
Companies that make machines are more interested in mechanical efficiency and how it maximizes their efforts. So we have PDK for those who want mechanical efficiency...and for the time being we have the manual transmission for those who want to feel the art o their own skills.
The people who ebrace the new car technology will then balk when it becomes mandatory that all cars have a self driving mode that traffic controlers can activate at will. We will only be allowed to pilot our cars when the authorities tell us we can.
Time will eventually erase all that we love so the only thing to do is enjoy it while you can.
When I started looking for my current 911 (2011 C4S 6MT) I talked to a salesman I know at Carlsen in Redwood City. He's worked for them for 30 years. I told him I wanted the manual transmission. He let me know that those are much harder to find used. The reason being when 997.2 came out with the PDK the configuration for manual vs automatic changed completely. With the Tiptronic (torque converter based automatic) the orders were configured 80% MT 20% Auto. When the PDK came on the scene that reversed. The primary reason being performance. With the Tiptronic the cars were slower than the MT. With PDK they're faster.
I'm not disputing the performance factor with the PDK. My reasoning for getting the MT was driver involvement. I'm not tracking the car, I do take the car in the hills on the weekends and I love having the MT.
I'm very fortunate in that I have other cars with automatics such that driving to work or just traffic in general is far more tolerable. If I had only one car and had to use it to go to work, errands, etc. it would have a PDK primarily due to the pain of stop and go traffic with a MT. I did that for years and don't miss it.
I can't help but think if all those 991 GT3's that are sitting on lots now, at or below MSRP, were suddenly made manual transmissions...they would ALL be gone before the weekend. I for one looked at the price of one listed on 6speed lately, brand new $139k. I'm not in the market for a new car, but all I could think was "man, if that was a manual, I would be all over this!".
Are 991 GT3s not selling very well..? I hadn't heard this.
Am I understanding correctly that the new manual transmissions have automated rev matching on down shifts?
The rev matching feature was implemented on 2013 and up 911s that come with the optional Sport Chrono pkg. The Sport Chrono pkg comes with Sport and Sport Plus. The Sport Plus mapping is intended for the track and the car will ONLY rev match when this is selected. If you want to rev match yourself you can drive the car in Sport or Normal settings.
This way you can get the best of both worlds-win win situation IMO.
I am glad that I know how to drive using a manual transmission, in the same way that I am glad that I know how to fix things, how to hunt, kill and dress wild game and how to use power tools (grunt, grunt).
These are all good things to know how to do, but the fact that you don't use those skills every day doesn't emasculate a man. And the fact that most Porsches are now automatics (and Ferraris) doesn't appear to me to signal the apocalypse.
Twenty years ago, if someone had told me that I could not only get a 911, but that I could get it with a sophisticated dual-clutch gearbox that used F1 technology to get me shifts faster than any race car driver ever could, and couple that with mileage better than a six speed manual, I'd have told them they were crazy.
It's all in the perspective. Rowing through the gears while you drive the Blue Ridge Parkway is a great experience, but for me, using a PDK to free up my right hand to run it up my wife's skirt is a better one.
The rev matching feature was implemented on 2013 and up 911s that come with the optional Sport Chrono pkg. The Sport Chrono pkg comes with Sport and Sport Plus. The Sport Plus mapping is intended for the track and the car will ONLY rev match when this is selected. If you want to rev match yourself you can drive the car in Sport or Normal settings.
This way you can get the best of both worlds-win win situation IMO.
Options, options. That is the way it should be. I'm also in the camp that the 991 GT3 should be offered with a manual transmission option.
"I didn't drive Lincoln's when I was younger to be cool...or because somebody paid me. I never drove Lincolns...mainly because they're dumb looking...an old mans car, like a Buick or a Pontiac. I drive a Porsche because it's cool. I drive a manual because I think it makes me cool. People say stuff like 'hey, that's a stick shift, you can drive that?'. Yep, because I'm cool and didn't drive Lincolns around like some Johnny-high-five frat boy when I was younger. I drove Pinto's and Chevette's with manuals, that need to be bump started so I always parked on a hill and used my feet for brakes for like the Flintstones. That was cool."
"I didn't drive Lincoln's when I was younger to be cool...or because somebody paid me. I never drove Lincolns...mainly because they're dumb looking...an old mans car, like a Buick or a Pontiac. I drive a Porsche because it's cool. I drive a manual because I think it makes me cool. People say stuff like 'hey, that's a stick shift, you can drive that?'. Yep, because I'm cool and didn't drive Lincolns around like some Johnny-high-five frat boy when I was younger. I drove Pinto's and Chevette's with manuals, that need to be bump started so I always parked on a hill and used my feet for brakes for like the Flintstones. That was cool."
I see... manuals because of (i) the 'involvement' they require (ii) the wife can't drive it and now (iii) because they are 'cool'.
I drive manuals when they fit the car and the era. Manual in an '80s classic, PDK in a modern 911. But I have no issue with anyone still preferring a manual on a modern car. If a modern car was only available with a manual I would still buy it and drive it, heel-and-toe et al.
01-06-2015 | 06:42 PM
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