Definitely don't want to start a war here. Neither trying to throw blame around. The only blame stays with me. My car liked the Castrol synthetic and went thru the tail end of last winter with 0 issues. I should have kept it.

If it works don't screw with it, kind of thing...

And because I don't intend to start anything I'm keeping my observations to myself.

Cheers!

 

That is a great option! How long did Hartech take for the rebuild?

With another brutally cold winter here I wonder if we'll see more bore scoring issues like a year ago - unless people have chosen to park them for the last few months.

To Bogdan - you really won't know for certain it was the oil that caused your problems until you tear into things.

 

It took about 5 weeks for them to rebuild it, but they were also closed for about a week between christmas and new year.

The experience was great - I'd rather not have needed a rebuild, but have complete confidence in them that they know what they are doing. Hartech stands behind their work, and has a 2 year warranty. I am reassured that the engine won't experience the same problem again.

 

Sorry to read about your problems.

I do not recall the details of your oil experiments but the oil would have to be pretty crappy to account for the behavior/symptoms.

I suspect something else is going on.

Given the details I would hazard a guess there is something wrong with a converter. The noise, the soot. A loose converter brick that doesn't fully process exhaust gases as it should.

While "bore scoring" is or soon shall overtake IMSB as the go to reason behind any Porsche engine troubles this event is rather rare.

Before you trash the engine the car investigate or better yet have a skilled highly experienced Porsche engine tech investigate and determine the source of the noise and the soot and be sure you have identified the true cause of these. Sure, it could be something inside the engine but it doesn't have to be.

 

My initial experience with Miller was fantastic. The engine simply had more immediate power delivery, was running smoother (at traffic lights there was noticeably less vibration in the cockpit) and the mileage was undeniably better (dropped from about 14.8l/ 100 km to 13.6l/ 100km or about 100 km more per tank). I was so happy with it I've switched my wife's XC90 to Millers and got similar results. Everything was good in this Universe and I was patting myself on the back for all the right research and my own engineering discerning prowess. I am after all a mechanical engineer working in reliability and durability testing for a major automotive group.

The only fly in the ointment were the disappointing results of our informal internal testing of the sample I provided to our tribo lab. Emphasis here on informal. The preliminary tests were not promising so my friend in the lab gave up. Between the two of us we chalked up the results to the testing procedure which does not mimic engine behaviour, our being customized for conditions occurring in our products. I won't go into any more details as the rest is proprietary information. Please don't ask.

Nonetheless the car seemed running good even with the mileage starting slowly creeping back towards where it was before Millers.

Long story short, all was good until last week when upon exiting the car wash I waited for about 30 min to get in (after my regular drive back from the office, so the engine was already hot) I've heard a ticking sound.

Upon my return home, I've thought adding a bit of oil (was one level under once settled) and I found out in my unheated garage (around -9C at the time) the Millers oil was REALLY syrupy, more like thick honey.

I believe my routine of walking around the car while letting it idle and surveying it for a minute or two before setting off in the frigid cold plus my careful use of the throttle for the first few minutes (till the pressure gage started to drop) was not enough to protect my engine.

I do not believe Millers nanodrive is a bad product. Just probably not well suited to frigid climates like Canada. That being said, I'll be also changing my wife's oil back to Castrol by the end of next week.

Needless to say this is the end of my experimentation with stuff outside Porsche's A40.

I'm left with an unfortunate and untenable situation: my finances were already stretched getting this beauty as a daily driver. I was planning on meticulous maintenance and had the money for that but no contingency funds for a possible costly rebuild. I simply cannot afford to get it fixed now so I'll drive it a bit longer then perhaps mothball it until I can get the up to CAD 20k to fix it properly because I cannot part with it. I still love her and feel sorry for the damage I caused her.

I got a bitter slice of humble pie and got bit by my honest but arrogant beliefs I know better. Got exactly what I tried to avoid. Irony's a bitch...

Cheers everyone!

And thanks Macster for trying to cheer me up :-)

 

Cylinder issues are a component and running clearance issue when in extreme cold.

In my experience it doesn't matter what oil you dump in, if it's cold enough the inevitable will still happen. Why? Oil isn't magical, if components have no running clearance, friction goes through the roof, oil can't reach the components and you'll have a failure.

 

Truer words were never spoken. The very reason why I believed the quip about nano particles in Millers clinging to surfaces and helping boundary, metal on metal starts to be beneficial in protecting my engine.

 

I went and talked to Ryan at Autowerks this morning plus I've scheduled an inspection for next week. I have to change spark plugs anyway (I could not find them changed in the car's history at the 60k service interval) so it is a great opportunity to get a proper inspection done at the same time.

Anyway, they seemed to believe my "italian" tuning would have effectively killed the engine if I had scored cylinders. Ryan was saying once the noise starts, it gets exponentially worse very quickly. Mine didn't. The annoying ticking is still there at idle, tends to fade as I go up in rpm so I can't hear it in normal driving at all. There's no odd vibration either neither the engine feels low on power. On my highway run last Friday the engine was crisp, responding quickly and with good authority around 4000 rpm... After the run, if anything, the ticking was perhaps slightly quieter. I know I might be biased and my brain wants to steer me away from the big repair bill but the noise was definitely not worse... Nor it was this morning on my way to the office.

We'll see next week...

 

First my advice would be to not drive the car anymore unless you have the source of the noise diagnosed and it is something that does not require the car be parked up until the source is addressed.

Next, in spite of my advocacy for adhering to using only the oils approved by Porsche I'm not willing to blame the oil for your engine's troubles. I'm not convinced the troubles can be attributed to a lubrication problem. We really do not know what is the problem at this time so trying to assign a cause is premature.

I will have to point out -- maybe to late for you but for the benefit of others -- that just because the oil pressure drops some as the cold engine runs may not be a sign the engine is fully up to temperature.

After having spent a few weeks late last Dec. and early Jan. back in the (frigid) mid-west with temperatures in the single digits I was reminded how long it takes for one of these engines to warm up when started from dead cold.

After sitting outside the hotel room all night long my 03 Turbo would take 30 minutes of running/driving before the hot idle oil pressure would get to a point that I felt comfortable the oil and the engine were fully up to temperature. Even then I cooled my jets and avoided real high RPMs as a concession to the cold temps -- oh and the fact I drove there with 5w-50 oil in the engine, which is the oil I run here where I live/drive in CA with its much milder (at least in the winter) temperatures -- and the fact the car was on summer tires and even though most days the pavement was dry and free of any snow traction was still obviously marginal.

Like I said above, my advice is to park the car if you can't do anything with it now. Try to park it in such a way you can keep the battery topped up. Also, take whatever other precautions you can to lessen the impact of the car not being used for a while. Assume a "long" while as my 1st and 2nd hand experience is often in these situations the time the car is off the road is much longer than was first imagined and in some cases the car is disposed of without anything ever being done to the car by its current owner. This is ok but if precautions are taken then it makes selling the car a bit less work as at least one can assure the buyer the car was parked up with the possibility of long term storage (lack of use) in mind.

 

Macster, if anything, owning a 911 made me a more courteous driver. While I enjoy a spirited drive like any of our forum members, I usually leave those to the warm days (they are plenty in the year), so even after the pressure starts dropping I still did not rev the engine like an idiot especially on cold days. The oil temperature gage on the coldest days will take a good 20 minutes of careful driving to go up to 90°C (at least on my car).

All I was saying is when the pressure is starting to drop, it means the viscosity of the oil is starting to go down and so it will start to reach those harder to reach corners better. I sincerely don't think my really mild everyday driving manner had the major role to play here. Perhaps I should have left the car home on the coldest days (meaning most of February) as driving it in the -25° -30°C weather was most likely the main cause for the issue. The thing is however when I picked up the car in the winter last year, with similar temperatures I had no issues whatsoever.

I'm not sure Miller's had extensively tested their stuff at under -20°C where as Mobil and Castrol did. That's all I'm saying.

Anyway, I've mentioned this before. The blame lies with me really, I should have known better and as you can see in my above post from today, I might not be facing scored bores actually. It remains to be seen. The advice I've got was to drive the car carefully and pay close attention to any worsening of the noise. The inspection will follow next week.

I'm not planning selling the car in the foreseeable future. I love it and I love all the mods on it, it's just about perfect (ticking noise aside :-) )

 

In the newest BMWs the water temp gauge has disappeared. I hate this and think this is a mistake. However, the turbo models do have an oil temp gauge. I drove a BMW turbo loaner the other day and was surprised how long it took to warm up the oil temp (about ten minutes for the needle to even move on a very cold morning) just like our Porsches.

This is a good thing for new owners of BMWs as they'll hopefully mind the gauge and won't stomp on the gas until the oil temp has come up.

 

My 997.2 will reach operating water temp (175 degrees) before the oil temp even registers or moves off the 150...so I never use water temp as an indicator of engine warm up.

 

My water gauge (997.2) never varies from 175 no matter what the oil temperature is. I've read that this gauge is computer controlled. I've read it is programmed to lie to you, lest you become upset. I believe it does. I would like to see it removed like on the new BMWs. I abhor useless data (red herrings). I'd like to see a voltmeter instead. That would be useful.

Perhaps we are reaching an age of enlightenment wherein we stop worrying about the water and pay attention to the oil. If it takes BMW to pave that way then kudos to them

Beyond that, IMHO, the OP has made statements toward his expertise, but for reasons regarding proprietary processes has not been able to detail his background. Personally, I have to make the following statements -

1. I find it unprofessional to lay blame until I have details. If I were at Miller, I would have my lawyers scouring this post.

2. So far, we don't know what is wrong. Until then, how much can we gain by surmising?

3. Just because super cold operation did not cause failure last year doesn't mean it didn't cause failure this year. To imply or conclude differently is to say since the motor worked the first mile it should work the second, and forth, and eighth, up to and beyond the millionth. Wear is cumulative. Failures happen over time.

4. Over time, whose to say one event or another caused the failure without an inspection?

5. What were the parameters and reasons for experimenting with this different oil? What controls were in place?

6. Why, if the oil looked like syrup, was it not removed for chemical analysis?

7. Was a graph made of viscosity vs temperature?

8. I could go on all day ...

Please, I do not want to put a damper on this conversation. I want to see the outcome. I love seeing the ideas. But let's avoid finger pointing until we have more information. Assessing fault is critical to improvement, but jumping the gun helps no one. OP, you may have privileged information not available to the rest of us. I apologize if such information leads you to your conclusive statements. But from where I sit ...


Revision: Juggling a lot of ***** and trying to take a lunch break amongst interruptions. There was a post on the Forum from someone who was at a testing lab discussing oil. If I've got the wrong post here, take the above for what it's worth.

 

Such unprofessional statement.




Prokop uses CFS 0W-30 NT in his Ford. Has been using Millers for a number of years.

 

I see, my apologies. Mine was EE Longlife 5W40, definitely thicker than what Prokop is using.