9SIX8

Gentleman,
I am in the position of purchasing my next car, and I have the selections down to two vehicles: A 997 911 or a 2008 E92 M3 with some moderate upgrades like BBK, exhaust and springs.

I've owned a 911 SC which I probably didn't appreciate as much as I should have, from which I moved on to the 968 hence the moniker. I also owned my 2001 BMW 330ci at the time and had to make the decision to part with one of those vehicles due to young kids, moving, space, etc. Eventually I sold the 968 because I opted for practicality and also liked the refined feeling of a more modern car.

The BMW 330ci has weathered to the point of my not wanting to put any more money into the car. I am again faced with the 911 vs BMW quandary again, but this time, practicality is not an issue.

So with that context, the 911 I am looking at is a 2005 with 12k miles and the IMS replaced. The few questions I have unfortunately revolve around the IMS subject that's been talked to death, but I can't seem to find the exact answers I'm looking for.

If the IMS bearing is replaced as with 2005, does this solve the issue permanently or will the bearing need to be replaced at some time in the future? Yes it has improved seals and such, but all seals can eventually fail. I am not clear if the 2006 model has the 2nd generation bearing and if that can be replaced, and which year the bearing becomes unreplaceable.

I miss the rear engine feeling, the low sitting position and the tossability of the 911, although I won't ever track the car. Spirited driving, passing power and a daily reminder that I'm in a vehicle that I love is what I'm looking for. The base Carrera doesn't have the raw power of the M3.

Would love to hear your opinions and your answers on the IMS. I have the opinions from the BMW forums, but would like yours as well.

Thanks!

Hunt3R

Whether or not you ever need to service the IMS bearing again depends on the type of replacement bearing used. LN Engineering makes 3 different kinds and I believe their classic has a 50k\4yr service replacement recommendation, the newer single row pro design is 75k\6yr, and their IMS Solution is their permanent replacement. There's a couple other companies that have invented permanent solutions too although it's hard to find any definite test info on them. All of the permanent solution designs have an additional oil line running to the IMSB for lubrication. The LN IMS Solution runs the oil line from a proprietary oil filter housing so you could easily see it there. Perhaps the seller can tell you which IMS replacement he used or hopefully has paperwork on it at least.

I purposely bought an 05 myself so the IMSB could be serviced and I've been digging into this stuff a lot myself lately trying to figure out which I want to go with on my car.

Para82

There's no way around it, if you get the M3 you're going to wish you had a 911. If you do get the 911 you're going to miss that high-revving V8.

You'll have to get both, it's the only way.

Check my avatar - it's mechanical bliss.

9SIX8

It seems the 2005 has some hidden benefits because of the replaceable IMS. The seller is asking 41.9k for 2005 with sport chrono package. Any thoughts about that price? Yes KBB and such have their thoughts, but the range is very wide. Also why does the paint seem to come off all the buttons and trim?

9SIX8

Yes, it may very well come down to getting both one day, but i suppose the question is which one first!

9SIX8

Now I've also seen a 06 C4S. What I dont know is if the bearing on this is serviceable with a build date of 6/06.

Para82

The 911 of course! It's the most iconic sports car in the world. M3 can wait and depreciate a bit more...

Ben Z

If the bearing has been replaced then it's an early '05 with the smaller. replaceable bearing. Any '06 will have the larger, non-replaceable one.

I've got an early '05 and had the LN single-row installed. It's all there was at the time. I have my own theory on replacement of it. I think the service interval is a conservative, cover-their-butt recommendation. By the class-action suit statistics, 92% of the steel, sealed OEM bearings do not fail. If load was the primary issue, it would be closer to the inverse. So I believe the single LN bearing is easily capable of going the life of the engine. I believe the handful of failures they experienced were caused by being installed in engines where the OEM bearing had already begun to fail and there was swarf in the crank. And/or some bearings may have been installed in a ham-fisted way. Load capacity is adequate if the bearing is not compromised. I'm betting mine goes the life of the engine, just as 92% of the same-load-capacity but more-susceptible-to-inadequate-lubrication OEM bearings do.

IMS is no longer at the forefront now that I replaced it. But an '05 is almost 10 years old. Other items have failed, and as a whole have added up to a small fortune in repairs...thankfully, all covered by extended warranty. I'm sure there are other components on their way to failing as we speak. Only because I've got the warranty am I not dumping the car now. There is no such thing as an inexpensive repair on a Porsche unless you are a DIYer.

Then there's the issue of nonmechanicals. All the painted plastic surfaces inside mine have become soft and fragile. The slightest touch with anything hard peels the paint. A can of touchup I had made at Home Depot is the only thing keeping the interior from looking like utter crap. The leather is also extremely fragile. Compared to the others, the driver's seat looks like it was taken from a different car. I'm about to have it refinished for the second time. And I only have 55K on the car. And for the last 2 years there has been a constant stream of bits of sticky foam debris spewing out the A/C ducts.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting an '05, but go into it with your eyes open. If I had it to do over again I would certainly get a 993 instead. They have their issues, but nothing like the engine troubles of the 996/997, and from what I've seen, the interior materials hold up a lot better. Right now a 993 will cost as much or more as an '05 997, but the 993 is going up while the 997 is still dropping. All things to consider. As is the fact the one you're looking at seen an average of only 1200 miles per year. Garage queens can be more problematic than one which has been driven regularly.

9SIX8

Ben, excellent points and I appreciate your candor. You are right, the repair costs for the Porsche were significantly higher than the BMW, but I suppose part of that is the price of admission. What I don't recall is how often I'd have to drop $1500 here $2k there. Having an interior disintegrate on me would definitely drive me insane. I can't afford new, but can keep up with maintenance costs (to a degree). Therefore I try to find low mileage/excellent condition examples of cars.

Trying to find a well sorted 993 6sp coupe for ~$45k has been challenging. I do agree from an "investment" standpoint, the 993 would be the smarter car. Given these are almost 20 years old, I don't hold the same expectation from a condition standpoint, but nonetheless, finding one that is fairly stock has been challenging. Convertibles are out of the question - those are easier to source.

MessyMarvin

I wouldn't buy a 2005, just my 2 cents. I actually wouldn't buy either car without a warranty.

Good luck, the search is fun!!

Ben Z

Other than a 993 I would probably be looking at an '09 997.2 for the sake of eliminating the IMS issue entirely. But otherwise, there isn't really that much difference in age between an '05 and an '08 in terms of the deterioration, and at the early '05 at least has the serviceable bearing. I've had 5 1/2 years of relatively trouble-free driving from mine, and I saved (at the time) ten grand over a similarly-equiped '06, and nobody save for an enthusiast can tell the difference. The problem isn't reliability as much as even "minor" repairs cost an arm and a leg.

I had half a dozen BMW's between '83 and '99 and they were just as expensive to maintain, broke down more often, and depreciated more. Fun to drive though.