21k miles on an '06 C2S i'm considering buying....good or bad idea?
08-02-2014 | 08:53 PM
#1
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From: San Francisco
21k miles on an '06 C2S i'm considering buying....good or bad idea?
As the title states, I'm looking at an '06 C2S tomorrow with only 21k miles.
Typically a low mileage car is very appealing, but I know Porsche engines like to be driven often.
I'll be getting a PPI lined up with with an independent Porsche shop, but should I be wary of buying such a low-mileage Porsche?
What's semi-frustrating is I have to go through a broker to look at and buy the car, so I can't get an accurate picture on whether the car has been sitting for extensive periods of time or what.
If you're bored and interested in helping a prospect P-Car buyer, here's the ad:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/4592577221.html
And it looks like the current owner bought it from a dealer in 2010:
http://www.usedcarsfsbo.com/asp/Item...12%2F17%2F2010
Thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Typically a low mileage car is very appealing, but I know Porsche engines like to be driven often.
I'll be getting a PPI lined up with with an independent Porsche shop, but should I be wary of buying such a low-mileage Porsche?
What's semi-frustrating is I have to go through a broker to look at and buy the car, so I can't get an accurate picture on whether the car has been sitting for extensive periods of time or what.
If you're bored and interested in helping a prospect P-Car buyer, here's the ad:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/4592577221.html
And it looks like the current owner bought it from a dealer in 2010:
http://www.usedcarsfsbo.com/asp/Item...12%2F17%2F2010
Thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated!
08-02-2014 | 11:47 PM
#2
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 517
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From: NJ
Ok, so I just brought a 07 997 C4S with less miles then this car, so I can give some insight on the car you're targeting.
Pros:
- That metallic gray is a nice color
- BBS wheels. Thats expensive. Yes, its not OEM, but BBS are great.
- Has lots of good options including the adaptive seats, Sports Chrono, Bose sound, etc.
- 2-owner car
- low mileage
- interior looks clean - minus the floor mats that don't match in color (strange)
Cons:
- 3rd party Alpine system. These things are always a crap-shoot. Yes, the OEM PCM sux but when you go aftermarket the quality of installation is going to be the key - Was it done correctly? If not, its going to cost money and time to go back and re-do the wiring the 1st shop did for the aftermarket unit. Sometimes its fine, but I also heard war-stories from folks as well. Plus I think on the resell, people like it OEM.
Overall looks like a decent car. Ask the owner if he has records on the car - including who did the stereo system. Test drive the car and see how it drives (hopefully you drove other 997s as reference). If you like it, do a PPI at a local shop. Call a local Porsche dealer to see if the IMS on this car is the original or the upgraded IMS bearings (from mid 06 and on). They usually can tell you via the VIN #. If its the upgraded IMS bearing you should be good.
If everything else looks good - pull the trigger.
These are great cars overall.
Pros:
- That metallic gray is a nice color
- BBS wheels. Thats expensive. Yes, its not OEM, but BBS are great.
- Has lots of good options including the adaptive seats, Sports Chrono, Bose sound, etc.
- 2-owner car
- low mileage
- interior looks clean - minus the floor mats that don't match in color (strange)
Cons:
- 3rd party Alpine system. These things are always a crap-shoot. Yes, the OEM PCM sux but when you go aftermarket the quality of installation is going to be the key - Was it done correctly? If not, its going to cost money and time to go back and re-do the wiring the 1st shop did for the aftermarket unit. Sometimes its fine, but I also heard war-stories from folks as well. Plus I think on the resell, people like it OEM.
Overall looks like a decent car. Ask the owner if he has records on the car - including who did the stereo system. Test drive the car and see how it drives (hopefully you drove other 997s as reference). If you like it, do a PPI at a local shop. Call a local Porsche dealer to see if the IMS on this car is the original or the upgraded IMS bearings (from mid 06 and on). They usually can tell you via the VIN #. If its the upgraded IMS bearing you should be good.
If everything else looks good - pull the trigger.
These are great cars overall.
08-03-2014 | 12:30 AM
#3
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
^Wardrive gave excellent comments.
I just wanted to add that I wouldn't worry too much about that mileage if the PPI is good. These cars are often 3rd cars, or weekend cars, that may be driven less but regularly. I only have about 36k on my 2006.
I just wanted to add that I wouldn't worry too much about that mileage if the PPI is good. These cars are often 3rd cars, or weekend cars, that may be driven less but regularly. I only have about 36k on my 2006.
08-03-2014 | 12:56 AM
#4
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 259
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From: North Atlanta Metro
I bought my '06 with a little over 26K on the odometer, my experience is that many of these cars are weekend warriors so it's not abnormal. A good PPI (with a bore scope,) is necessary IMO along with good maintenance records; those things line up buy with confidence.
As for OEM stereos, true it does take a bit of value away but only if you car about that; use it as a bargaining chip. Personally the PCM system sucks, stuff like BT/iPhone/iPhone/streaming is all aftermarket add-on possible but the PCM interface is just flat out kludgy. Alpine head-units are the best option but as one poster said the quality of the install is very important; if it's a Bose equipped car either the previous owner used a MOST adaptor, direct wired the speakers or went with an aftermarket amp in addition. If the install was quality, you'll have a far superior audio setup that might include better speakers. My bet is the previous owner just used a NAV-TV MOST adaptor and replaced the head unit. If that's the case, switching back to a PCM 2.1 (if you wanted to,) is plug and play.
If the car is the 'right' one you'll know it...
ETA....after reading the ad let me add a few things, my $0.02 of course so take it or leave it.
1: Sounds like a full audio upgrade, see if you can find out what shop did it. A bad install with good parts is sill bad.
2: The price is high, I paid less for my '06 cab with full leather at a Porsche dealer. Keep in mind CA is no doubt a higher market and that car has 5,500 miles less miles but I still think it's high.
3: Ad states there's some cosmetic blemishes, again refer to my point on price. My car was cosmetically flawless inside and out; if nothing else this can be a bargaining chip.
As for OEM stereos, true it does take a bit of value away but only if you car about that; use it as a bargaining chip. Personally the PCM system sucks, stuff like BT/iPhone/iPhone/streaming is all aftermarket add-on possible but the PCM interface is just flat out kludgy. Alpine head-units are the best option but as one poster said the quality of the install is very important; if it's a Bose equipped car either the previous owner used a MOST adaptor, direct wired the speakers or went with an aftermarket amp in addition. If the install was quality, you'll have a far superior audio setup that might include better speakers. My bet is the previous owner just used a NAV-TV MOST adaptor and replaced the head unit. If that's the case, switching back to a PCM 2.1 (if you wanted to,) is plug and play.
If the car is the 'right' one you'll know it...
ETA....after reading the ad let me add a few things, my $0.02 of course so take it or leave it.
1: Sounds like a full audio upgrade, see if you can find out what shop did it. A bad install with good parts is sill bad.
2: The price is high, I paid less for my '06 cab with full leather at a Porsche dealer. Keep in mind CA is no doubt a higher market and that car has 5,500 miles less miles but I still think it's high.
3: Ad states there's some cosmetic blemishes, again refer to my point on price. My car was cosmetically flawless inside and out; if nothing else this can be a bargaining chip.
08-03-2014 | 01:23 AM
#5
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From: San Francisco
Really fantastic feedback, and now I've got some bargaining points.
I think I read some horror stories of low-mileage Porsche's having IMS failure. These were probably 996's or 2005 997's.
What should I expect in terms of completed maintenance? I think spark plugs and drive belts need to be replaced every 40,000 miles or 4 years? Is it a red flag if they haven't been following the maintenance schedule in terms of years passed?
I would actually prefer a stock 997 because I have resale in mind, so I don't see the value in the BBS wheels and aftermarket stereo. Therefore, my offer is going to be $44k...max at $46k if I find the car in perfect condition (skeptical though with the "cosmetically not perfect")
I think I read some horror stories of low-mileage Porsche's having IMS failure. These were probably 996's or 2005 997's.
What should I expect in terms of completed maintenance? I think spark plugs and drive belts need to be replaced every 40,000 miles or 4 years? Is it a red flag if they haven't been following the maintenance schedule in terms of years passed?
I would actually prefer a stock 997 because I have resale in mind, so I don't see the value in the BBS wheels and aftermarket stereo. Therefore, my offer is going to be $44k...max at $46k if I find the car in perfect condition (skeptical though with the "cosmetically not perfect")
08-03-2014 | 08:39 AM
#6
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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From: Dallas, Texas
So I bought an 06 C2 two years ago on eBay. Garaged with less than 8k miles for about the same money. It was as close to new and perfect as you would want. Local dealer did the PPI changed all fluids, belts, wipers and put on new pilot SS. Drove it home to Texas from Florida. Could not be happier. I did buy the extended warranty just for peace of mind but have had no reason to use it. Now has just over 12K.
08-03-2014 | 11:44 AM
#7
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 259
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From: North Atlanta Metro
All '06 have the new IMS so that shouldn't be an issue. If resale is something you're concerned about, you may want to pass on this car as it has the aftermarket audio and wheels. Both, desirable in their own right, would detract slightly from a resale POV.
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08-03-2014 | 12:32 PM
#8
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From: Washington, DC
My post from 6speed ...
Based on the link you provided, the car only had 7800 miles in 2010. Now it has 21K, so the car has been driven pretty regularly in recent years. Any issues from the car sitting most likely would have been sorted out by now. If you can get ahold of the maintenance records, look for regular oil changes and brake fluid flushes (every 2 years). If it has good service history, I think she's a nice car. The PPI will verify if this is the case.
That said, I honestly don't understand the recent dialogue on these forums regarding low mileage cars. It seems to be the "flavor of the month" among the fear mongers. What exactly constitutes low mileage, and where's the technical data to back it up? 21K miles for an '06 is not that low in my opinion, especially for a weekend driver. Now if the car had 2500 miles and was an '06, that would be a different story because you know the car was sitting around for extensive periods.
I know a lot of people use their 997's as daily drivers, so it seems perfectly reasonable for their cars to be at 80K+ miles by now (for the 997.1s). However there are just as many who use their cars as weekend cruisers, so it is perfectly reasonable for those cars to have mileage in the high teens to low 20K's. If the low mileage thing bothers you, look for a daily driver with good service history, but expect some more wear and tear in the cosmetics department.
When I was shopping for my 997, I wanted a car that had an extensive maintenance history with good mileage for a weekend driver. I ended up getting an '06 C4S with 17K miles, and that was 6 months ago. So far, it's on its 8th oil change, second drive belt and spark plugs, 3rd brake flush . . . you get the idea. Is this car any better/worse than one with 80K miles? To me it was an easy decision, but that's just me.
Oh, and someone mis-posted about the revised IMS bearings. The 997.1s produced in the mid-to-late part of the 2005 model year came with the updated bearing.
Sean
Based on the link you provided, the car only had 7800 miles in 2010. Now it has 21K, so the car has been driven pretty regularly in recent years. Any issues from the car sitting most likely would have been sorted out by now. If you can get ahold of the maintenance records, look for regular oil changes and brake fluid flushes (every 2 years). If it has good service history, I think she's a nice car. The PPI will verify if this is the case.
That said, I honestly don't understand the recent dialogue on these forums regarding low mileage cars. It seems to be the "flavor of the month" among the fear mongers. What exactly constitutes low mileage, and where's the technical data to back it up? 21K miles for an '06 is not that low in my opinion, especially for a weekend driver. Now if the car had 2500 miles and was an '06, that would be a different story because you know the car was sitting around for extensive periods.
I know a lot of people use their 997's as daily drivers, so it seems perfectly reasonable for their cars to be at 80K+ miles by now (for the 997.1s). However there are just as many who use their cars as weekend cruisers, so it is perfectly reasonable for those cars to have mileage in the high teens to low 20K's. If the low mileage thing bothers you, look for a daily driver with good service history, but expect some more wear and tear in the cosmetics department.
When I was shopping for my 997, I wanted a car that had an extensive maintenance history with good mileage for a weekend driver. I ended up getting an '06 C4S with 17K miles, and that was 6 months ago. So far, it's on its 8th oil change, second drive belt and spark plugs, 3rd brake flush . . . you get the idea. Is this car any better/worse than one with 80K miles? To me it was an easy decision, but that's just me.
Oh, and someone mis-posted about the revised IMS bearings. The 997.1s produced in the mid-to-late part of the 2005 model year came with the updated bearing.
Sean
08-03-2014 | 02:38 PM
#9
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From: Santa Venetia, CA
Yeah I wouldn't be too bummed on the mileage. As one guy said a post or two back, if the car is right, you'll "know" it. That's profoundly true.
When I bought mine I knew it was coming home with me before the key even reached the ignition.
I think the car looks great, the price isn't terrible but it's always great to get a better deal if you can. Looking at it as a resale investment, I would say you've gotta beat 'em up on the price a little, but I bought mine (06 c2s cab) last year with 54k it was in the low 40's, so a couple grand to shave 20k miles off and update the stereo & wheels, plus have the adaptive seats really doesn't seem too bad for the Bay Area. I'm at 72k this morning and she's running tip top.
^^ Poster above: 8 oil changes in 6 months? That sounds like a very lucky motor! That's awesome - is your frequency based on mileage or just lots of high temp driving? Are you running 0-40?
OP: good luck it looks like you've got a winner. Let us know how it goes!
When I bought mine I knew it was coming home with me before the key even reached the ignition.
I think the car looks great, the price isn't terrible but it's always great to get a better deal if you can. Looking at it as a resale investment, I would say you've gotta beat 'em up on the price a little, but I bought mine (06 c2s cab) last year with 54k it was in the low 40's, so a couple grand to shave 20k miles off and update the stereo & wheels, plus have the adaptive seats really doesn't seem too bad for the Bay Area. I'm at 72k this morning and she's running tip top.
^^ Poster above: 8 oil changes in 6 months? That sounds like a very lucky motor! That's awesome - is your frequency based on mileage or just lots of high temp driving? Are you running 0-40?
OP: good luck it looks like you've got a winner. Let us know how it goes!
08-03-2014 | 06:54 PM
#11
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,408
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From: richmond hill
+911
well said!
well said!
I bought my '06 with a little over 26K on the odometer, my experience is that many of these cars are weekend warriors so it's not abnormal. A good PPI (with a bore scope,) is necessary IMO along with good maintenance records; those things line up buy with confidence.
As for OEM stereos, true it does take a bit of value away but only if you car about that; use it as a bargaining chip. Personally the PCM system sucks, stuff like BT/iPhone/iPhone/streaming is all aftermarket add-on possible but the PCM interface is just flat out kludgy. Alpine head-units are the best option but as one poster said the quality of the install is very important; if it's a Bose equipped car either the previous owner used a MOST adaptor, direct wired the speakers or went with an aftermarket amp in addition. If the install was quality, you'll have a far superior audio setup that might include better speakers. My bet is the previous owner just used a NAV-TV MOST adaptor and replaced the head unit. If that's the case, switching back to a PCM 2.1 (if you wanted to,) is plug and play.
If the car is the 'right' one you'll know it...
ETA....after reading the ad let me add a few things, my $0.02 of course so take it or leave it.
1: Sounds like a full audio upgrade, see if you can find out what shop did it. A bad install with good parts is sill bad.
2: The price is high, I paid less for my '06 cab with full leather at a Porsche dealer. Keep in mind CA is no doubt a higher market and that car has 5,500 miles less miles but I still think it's high.
3: Ad states there's some cosmetic blemishes, again refer to my point on price. My car was cosmetically flawless inside and out; if nothing else this can be a bargaining chip.
As for OEM stereos, true it does take a bit of value away but only if you car about that; use it as a bargaining chip. Personally the PCM system sucks, stuff like BT/iPhone/iPhone/streaming is all aftermarket add-on possible but the PCM interface is just flat out kludgy. Alpine head-units are the best option but as one poster said the quality of the install is very important; if it's a Bose equipped car either the previous owner used a MOST adaptor, direct wired the speakers or went with an aftermarket amp in addition. If the install was quality, you'll have a far superior audio setup that might include better speakers. My bet is the previous owner just used a NAV-TV MOST adaptor and replaced the head unit. If that's the case, switching back to a PCM 2.1 (if you wanted to,) is plug and play.
If the car is the 'right' one you'll know it...
ETA....after reading the ad let me add a few things, my $0.02 of course so take it or leave it.
1: Sounds like a full audio upgrade, see if you can find out what shop did it. A bad install with good parts is sill bad.
2: The price is high, I paid less for my '06 cab with full leather at a Porsche dealer. Keep in mind CA is no doubt a higher market and that car has 5,500 miles less miles but I still think it's high.
3: Ad states there's some cosmetic blemishes, again refer to my point on price. My car was cosmetically flawless inside and out; if nothing else this can be a bargaining chip.
08-03-2014 | 07:12 PM
#12
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 274
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From: Washington, DC
Since you asked, I run 5W50 (Mobil 1).
08-04-2014 | 12:42 AM
#14
AutoX
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Bend, OR
BTW - SF63, check the age of the tires. The manual clearly spells out that you should NOT run on tires older than six (6) years! If they're original, that could be an additional point of negotiation.
Last edited by Boy Howdy; 08-04-2014 at 12:45 AM. Reason: added another item
08-04-2014 | 03:10 PM
#15
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From: San Francisco
For those following along...
Checked out the car yesterday, and it's in GOOD condition, but not PERFECT. It has the wear of a car that's 8 years old:
- AC switches have paint flaking - I see this a lot.
- driver's seat has a bit of wear on the side bolsters - I expected this
- some small scuffs on the doors - seal gray color helps to hide these and not make them obvious. The car has a clear bra on the front and mirrors which is nice
- mismatched floor mats - weird, but $100 gets me a new set of matching mats
Some options it doesn't have:
- no PSE - Gundo hack?
- manual seats
- no leather dash - tough to find
I was happy to see that the car DOES have the short-throw shifter.
The factory headunit was replaced with an Alpine INA-W900 headunit along with an Alpine amp and the speakers were replaced. Seller claims it's a $6k upgrade, not that i'm skeptical, but I requested receipts just so I know exactly what was done and where. I guess I'll enjoy the new features on the headunit vs. the stock one, although I think it's an older nav unit and I may entertain upgrading it to a newer model with BT streaming. I'm hoping it would be a plug and play effort and I can do it myself assuming I can use the existing wiring harness.
Overall the car is in GOOD condition, but not PERFECT. The BBS rims and aftermarket stereo are a personal plus for me, and the seller's current offer is $45k
Car is at a dependable Porsche mechanic as we speak and I'm awaiting results from the PPI.
Checked out the car yesterday, and it's in GOOD condition, but not PERFECT. It has the wear of a car that's 8 years old:
- AC switches have paint flaking - I see this a lot.
- driver's seat has a bit of wear on the side bolsters - I expected this
- some small scuffs on the doors - seal gray color helps to hide these and not make them obvious. The car has a clear bra on the front and mirrors which is nice
- mismatched floor mats - weird, but $100 gets me a new set of matching mats
Some options it doesn't have:
- no PSE - Gundo hack?
- manual seats
- no leather dash - tough to find
I was happy to see that the car DOES have the short-throw shifter.
The factory headunit was replaced with an Alpine INA-W900 headunit along with an Alpine amp and the speakers were replaced. Seller claims it's a $6k upgrade, not that i'm skeptical, but I requested receipts just so I know exactly what was done and where. I guess I'll enjoy the new features on the headunit vs. the stock one, although I think it's an older nav unit and I may entertain upgrading it to a newer model with BT streaming. I'm hoping it would be a plug and play effort and I can do it myself assuming I can use the existing wiring harness.
Overall the car is in GOOD condition, but not PERFECT. The BBS rims and aftermarket stereo are a personal plus for me, and the seller's current offer is $45k
Car is at a dependable Porsche mechanic as we speak and I'm awaiting results from the PPI.