SToronto

I'm not sure I would say the 991 is for posers....and the 997 was not?

You'll have posers buying any prestige sports car brand along with enthusiasts.

Difference being 991 is catering to a wider market to increase sales and profits. That wider market is not made up of enthusiasts but rather people who might be posers or appreciate a well engineered GT car and yeah those folks may not know the heritage of the 911 or appreciate it.

Anyway I'm not snobbish to the 991 owner.

Would I buy one? Not unless it's GT3 or Turbo.

alexb76

That is exactly the point, right there... the Carrera base/S models are now marketed down, while have done up in price significantly, so enthusiasts could only think of GT3/Turbo models as the only viable options.

utkinpol

Porsche pushes 991 into price segment of gallardo and comparable gt class exotics. I personally do not care about those cars at all but i am sure there are plenty of ppl who do. Nothing is wrong with that.

991 street car is junk. I would be interested to see a 991 chassis with a 500-650 hp engine, flat 6 or v8. But instead they decided to experiment with suspension and steering makng it overall less sporty and more tied to additional controllers. To each his own, i guess.

utkinpol

I am not snobbish, not at all. I just do not like what 991 is. 997.2 gt3 rs is a fine car. Lotuses are great. New stingray after some work is good, if you got a well built one. 991 development went in a different direction. It is not a car that lets good driver drive faster, it is a car built to let bad driver feel it goes faster. Obviously it is where profits are, but all that so called racing legacy of porsche goes down the drain. It simply turns into same crap vw and audi makes.

Gonzo911

I think it all depends on what you want from your driving experience. I recently purchased a MY2012,997.2 after having a 996.2 for 3 years. What I gained in looks (the car and cabin are a huge improvement) I lost in feel. It's hard to explain but I felt like I "drove" the 996. With the 997, I am just along for the ride. I test drove a 991 and it just didn't feel like a Porsche anymore. It was too "electronic" and the cabin was too busy.

I do not plan to track the car, and I have no reason to go 180+MPH, nor will the vast majority of Pcar owners. For me, the 997.2 is the perfect 911.

clembo

It is really funny to read many of these comments. I had a 997, I traded it for a 991, I must now be a "poser"

By the way, the 997 is slower than a 991, apples to apples. It doesn't matter if you are a good driver or bad driver - your 997 is slower.

Philster

Umm... clembo, I'd wager a fantastic driver in a 997 would humble you a bit.

The 991 has more potential. It does come down to the driver, and no one here said a 991 was slower. They question was, "Is it worth it?"

You are not in a position to answer that. Each individual determines the value of the extra little bits of potential speed a pro (or experienced racer) can extract.

Got that? Whose claim are you refuting? Seriously. Who said a 991 was slower? Please advise.

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Quadcammer

faster how?

A good driver in a 997 will be faster on a technical course than a 991 in a bad driver.

Hell, a good driver in a 996 might be faster than a 991 with a bad driver.

911s haven't been sports cars for years, they are GT cars. They get more refined each time. just pick whichever one meets your refinement needs.

9114Scab

I think the 991 is a great car, no matter what your perception of "driving experience" is, Porsche did a beautiful job with that car.

clembo

If you read my post, I never said "I" was faster, slower, or would be humbled by a fantastic driver, no doubt that could happen.

A post above yours mentioned that the 991 "is not a car that lets good driver drive faster, it is a car built to let bad driver feel it goes faster". My simple post mentioned 997 being slower "apples to apples" - same model car, same driver. I think every test performed for the past few years has confirmed that, many show that lower levels of 991 family are faster than some higher levels of 997. Evolution.

I had a 997.2s I now have a 991S, both stick shifts. I have driven both on street, AX Courses, and Tracks. The 991 outperforms the 997, okay already fact. I also find the 991 to be more enjoyable on the street, where many people who have posted in this thread may disagree.

I also agree with Quadcammer that 911's are really GT cars, the 991 didn't create that, it has been that way for a while.

I am not bashing the 997, as I said, I had one. I may even buy another for a different reason which is why I still read this Forum, I am watching the market. I just think that many of the statements that have been made here are silly.

Bruce In Philly

Interesting..... just like when I was as a teenager reading the 0-60 stats in the back of a big-sales car mag. Mine is better than yours......

Well that is the whole point of here isn't it. Do want to drive something that a magazine or on-line vid says is faster adn feel good, or do you want to take your car to track, take lessons, and experience a near-track car as a daily driver (a real sports car).

That appears to be the dividing line among Porsche owners........ newer ones buying the high-dollar cars like the "knowledge" that theirs is better than yours.... others desire the driving experience of a sports car (track-orientation). Porsche knows where the big money is... can you guess who they are building their 911 for?

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Philster

Bolding mine. Get over yourself. The discussion had a great component to it and you took a crap on it.

We were discussing the value of the incremental performance upgrades of a 991 and the very, very high cost associated with it.

The 997 is a fantastic value and we acknowledge that posers are everywhere. La tee freakin' dah.

Philster

Indeed.

Porsche is a business and we almost lost them when they were building air-cooled 911's and not much else. Seems selling to a small enthusiast niche is risky business and doesn't get you through lean times... such as when the enthusiasts nurse their older rides along and hedge their investments.

Seems like ~100% of 911 owners wave to me. Some Boxster/Cayman owners will. The rest of the 4-door owners look like I have three heads.

But it's the non-waving Porsche owner who I can thank for the chance to still drive a 911. My next-door neighbor drives a brand new 911 Turbo Cab and didn't know it was all-wheel drive. So be it. His 991 is way faster than mine. Cheers!



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Ezkill

Some really interesting discussion in this thread. My take on it...The 991 is better the the 997 on paper much like the PDK is far superior to the manual. Problem is they may be superior in every single way except the one that matters the most: My personal enjoyment. My decision was not a monetary decision. It was a decision based on the fact that I preferred the feel of the 997.2. To each their own.

yemenmocha

Beautiful example. And those examples are all too common.