mopar bob

This is a second posting as the autox is slow. I just got back from the dealer getting a 4 wheel alignment on my 997.1 for DD and Solo. And the service manager a good guy in my car club. was telling me that all you could get out of a stock car was about -.30 camber and that is what I got with -1.40 in the back. I would have liked -1.5 in the front but I think my tires will wear better on the street. The car feels so much better as the alignment was bad to start with. The toe was + on one side and - on the together in front and the same out back. Maybe this is there performance tune for none track cars. We will see how the car does next Sunday at the next Solo in Denver.

mdrums

WRONG... On the toe....really wrong to have positive on one side and negative on the other. You want zero toe to slightly toe out on the front....no more than .5mm toe out but I use zero toe myself. For the rear you absolutely want toe inward....no more than 2mm toe in per side. I use exactly 2mm toe in per side.

On a stock Carrera you can get right at -1 degree per side usually but definitely a lot more negative camber than -.30.

mopar bob

The positive toe on one side was on the car when I bought the car. The toe is at 0 now in the front. As for the camber is see a note on my paper work that .30 was the limit to stay in spec. I may have to go to a indy if I want more neg. camber. I should have had the car puck on the rack and checked out as soon as I brought it home and not drive it for a few months. I sometimes find it hard to get 1 - 1.5 neg. camber put in by a shop. On my S2 I had to sign a statement that my tire wear my be higher. This has not been true as the car is on it's 3rd summer of DD on the same RE11's, pure street first 2 summers. The car should play a little better next Sunday now if we can only tuneup the driver.

mdrums

You don't want to stay "in spec"...you want max camber in front...which on you car will be close to but not more than -1. ....and that will be perfectly fine on the street for tire wear.

I never use a Porsche dealer for alignment or performance mods...at least the 3 local dealers in my area.

mopar bob

Yep just found that out. There is a shop in town that I have been to before that I will take it in next time after this next race. My time is tight now , but there is a month off the SoloII calender for Pikes Peak hill climb. This brings out every one from the stock car guy, road racers, rally cars plus motorcycles. Indy is the only older race and it's very cool.
That is a very good looking car that you have. I may look at a GTS next time.

sjfehr

-0.3 is not enough front camber; it's frustrating that Porsche would cripple so much of their car's performance with lousy OEM performance specs. 2nding that you'll need to take your car to a race shop or indie for a true performance alignment; dealers and chain stores have policies about staying within manufacturer spec and will invariably give you a crappy street alignment with nice safe boring slow understeer. If you take it to a good shop that does porsche race alignments, just tell them your priorities and they'll set up a good alignment for you. Expect to pay $100-150 for a race alignment, but it'll be worth it.

If you're curious, you can look at the top of your front struts and see how much adjustment room in the slot is left. In fact, you could easily DIY it by loosening the bolts, sliding it as far inboard as you can get, and tightening it back down; no need for measurements, you want as much as you can get! Be warned that due to the geometry, this will give you a little extra toe out as well. The camber is fine for the street with neutral toe, but camber + toe out will eat tires.

floatingkiwi

Plus camber with toe out will try to fire you off the road on a bad surface...

alexb76

On the same topic. BUT with GT3 CLA... what do you guys recommend for alignment numbers for street/track combo, being a light track guy (3-4 a session) who runs street tires?

I am doing an alignment done next week, so like to know what's a good compromise. I guess something close to GT3 setting should be fine.

mdrums

Alex alignment really depends on the tires, track, your driving.

With most R- Comp tires like Nitto NT01, Toyo R888, Michelin Sport Cup (not a great tire compared to Nitto) and the Toyo RA1 we all use to run the basic rule for very fast drivers in 997 cars with over 1g in the corners was:

FRONT
-2.5 camber per side
zero toe or .5mm toe out per side

REAR
-2 rear camber
2mm toe in per side

I set up like this then took tire temps and read the tread and ended up with:

FRONT
-2.6 front camber per side
zero toe

REAR
-2.2 rear camber per side
2mm toe in per side

2 years ago in my 2009 C2S with stock suspension on R888 I ran
FRONT
-2.3 camber per side
zero toe

REAR
-1.9 camber per side
1.7mm toe in per side

Another rule is to keep no more than .5 degree of camber between front and rear. However it's up to you and the tires you pick. So for example if you decided to run Pirelli Trofeo 19"....those need lots of camber...-3 is starting point. Hoosier R6 same deal.

Street tires usually have a softer side wall "usually" so they will need some camber as to not roll over. You can play with tire pressure too but most all tires I've ran I have learned than anything on 38 psi get greasy fast...36psi gets greasy too. Most street extreme summer tires and r-comp tires like around 32-34 hot tire pressure.

utkinpol

Toe out in front and 0 toe in rear works great. To drive like that for street only car probably has no sense, car is quite nervous like that but it is very responsive. I have now -2.7 front and -2.3 rear, for street it works better that -3.5 front and -3 rear.

For stock cars, again, you will be limited with - 1 degree of camber in front, so, best you can do is -1 front and -1.5 rear. In my opinion best w to spend money on Porsche chassis is to get front LCAs - gt3 or RSS tarmac and rear axle adjustable toe links to get any adjustment you want. Car truly transforms when you bring alignment closer to what cup car was designed for. All 997 series chassis is about is a cup car. Look up its specs, its parts, use it and build it to what engineers created it to be. Street car is just an ugly duckling, a bad design derived from what cup car is. As you'll start to try to bridge that gap results will really amuse you.

utkinpol

As you run c4 car try to set same camber for rear and front, for street tires set it to - 2.5 or -2.7 deg, then for next DE try to add 0.3 neg camber in front and compare. Again, in 997 platform most intermediate drivers suffer from lack of technique to execute trailbraking to preload front to make car turn in and that dictates desire to increase front camber but more camber in front reduces contact patch for straight line braking and that in reality slows you down more. So it is always a compromise. It also depends a lot of tires you run on.

Arominus

The car was way out of wack, i saw the before and after sheet. The car was purchased used and had a dangerous alignment IMO. So, although the car doesn't have nearly enough camber, it at least drives straight now. Porsches max camber settings "allowable" are a joke, -.3 is all they would give the car. I rode along for one of Bob's autocross runs last event and the grip, even with a jacked up alignment, was eye opening compared to the 944S2 i drive considering we are on the same tires.

We will get the car setup with maximum stock camber soon, but this is a good start.

mdrums

Zero toe in rear will make it very wiggly...very lose under both threshold braking and corners. 1mm toe in on the rear at minim but that would more like a street setting for the best tire wear. 2mm toe in is great on the track and street for more of a performance street car set up. Cup cars can go even higher but for a street car it would wear through tires like crazy.

slicky rick

Mike, paul, bros, would the suggestions here not equate to shorter tire life? With all these discussions i think im going to get an alignment. Mine is right now spec to row performance spec. But spec nontheless. From our experienced drivers, with a mainly street driven car, and a concern for tire life, we are saying i should max out my camber for the front with 0 toe and a .5 less camber for the rear with around 1mm toe in. This will give best conpromise on tire life and wonderful handling our cars were made for? With all the posts im getting confused.