This is why I don't believe in both feet in!
05-06-2014 | 09:24 AM
#47
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Two feet in does not mean you go to a full stop all the time. The idea is that the car will continue on its original trajectory - even while spinning as opposed to hooking up and launching itself into a barrier of some sort. So releasing the clutch and brakes as shown in the original video was smart driving. By locking up all wheels, he stayed on the track - thus allowing the save.
05-06-2014 | 11:00 AM
#48
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From: Finland
Two feet in does not mean you go to a full stop all the time. The idea is that the car will continue on its original trajectory - even while spinning as opposed to hooking up and launching itself into a barrier of some sort. So releasing the clutch and brakes as shown in the original video was smart driving. By locking up all wheels, he stayed on the track - thus allowing the save.
05-06-2014 | 11:46 AM
#49
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Gents,
We find ourselves in a wrestling match in a sty. To quote the great George Bernard Shaw, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
Let's adjourn, wash up and grab a few cold ones. Further wrestling here is pointless. We can leave the pig alone.
We find ourselves in a wrestling match in a sty. To quote the great George Bernard Shaw, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
Let's adjourn, wash up and grab a few cold ones. Further wrestling here is pointless. We can leave the pig alone.
05-06-2014 | 03:27 PM
#50
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[The idea is that the car will continue on its original trajectory - even while spinning as opposed to hooking up and launching itself into a barrier of some sort.
Le même concept d'arme a feu , la balle, c'est la voiture .. oui?
Le même concept d'arme a feu , la balle, c'est la voiture .. oui?
05-06-2014 | 06:00 PM
#51
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Two feet in does not mean you go to a full stop all the time. The idea is that the car will continue on its original trajectory - even while spinning as opposed to hooking up and launching itself into a barrier of some sort. So releasing the clutch and brakes as shown in the original video was smart driving. By locking up all wheels, he stayed on the track - thus allowing the save.
"For those of you who have ignored all the previous information and find yourself violently spinning, the only recourse is to lock up all the wheels with the brakes and depress the clutch. “If you spin, both feet in!”. Do not try to save it with the steering; just hold what you have until you come to a complete stop."
http://suncoastpca.org/events/driver...-driving-tips/
I'm willing to bet the rule came about from beginner drivers trying to recover from spins, but not knowing how to and typically making things worse. Considering this, it is okay to tell beginners to just put "both feet in," since the car will stop eventually and they don't want random people driving wildly out of control. For event safety it makes sense to come up with a blanket rule like this. But once you become more proficient in driving, you will realize that there are conditions that will allow you to recover from a spin without having to stop. Which was the point of the original post.
There are conditions to every situation whether you are sliding or not - surface, speed, angle, track position, etc. Sometimes it is better to keep the wheels locked and let the sideways action scrub the speed off. Sometimes you have to keep the brake down because you can feel it will snap if grip catches again. Sometimes you kick the throttle to complete the rotation. Sometimes you use throttle to take load off the front wheels to regain front grip...and so on. Pretty much all of this was demonstrated by the spin in the original post.
Reversing fixation, looking ahead, spin recovery, etc. all revolve around using information obtained from conscious situational awareness to place your car where you want it to be. The problem with "both feet in" is that is starts and stops as a textbook regurgitation. It teaches the driver to forgo everything leading up to that moment and insert a one-size-fits-all solution. This is why I don't agree with the concept. It is through active/conscious control that drivers learn the cues that tell them precisely when and why to input "both feet in"; drivers who religiously practice "both feet in" may blind themselves to cues that indicate safer or faster options and their corresponding inputs.
http://suncoastpca.org/events/driver...-driving-tips/
I'm willing to bet the rule came about from beginner drivers trying to recover from spins, but not knowing how to and typically making things worse. Considering this, it is okay to tell beginners to just put "both feet in," since the car will stop eventually and they don't want random people driving wildly out of control. For event safety it makes sense to come up with a blanket rule like this. But once you become more proficient in driving, you will realize that there are conditions that will allow you to recover from a spin without having to stop. Which was the point of the original post.
There are conditions to every situation whether you are sliding or not - surface, speed, angle, track position, etc. Sometimes it is better to keep the wheels locked and let the sideways action scrub the speed off. Sometimes you have to keep the brake down because you can feel it will snap if grip catches again. Sometimes you kick the throttle to complete the rotation. Sometimes you use throttle to take load off the front wheels to regain front grip...and so on. Pretty much all of this was demonstrated by the spin in the original post.
Reversing fixation, looking ahead, spin recovery, etc. all revolve around using information obtained from conscious situational awareness to place your car where you want it to be. The problem with "both feet in" is that is starts and stops as a textbook regurgitation. It teaches the driver to forgo everything leading up to that moment and insert a one-size-fits-all solution. This is why I don't agree with the concept. It is through active/conscious control that drivers learn the cues that tell them precisely when and why to input "both feet in"; drivers who religiously practice "both feet in" may blind themselves to cues that indicate safer or faster options and their corresponding inputs.
05-07-2014 | 12:43 AM
#52
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From: Coachella Valley
Yes I've reiterated these exact points. Pay attention to the fact that releasing the pedals at the proper time is not considered "both feet in," both literally and by definition. Any attempt to recover before the car comes to a complete stop and you are not "both feet in:"
05-07-2014 | 12:45 AM
#53
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From: Louisville KY
Somebody, anybody, please put this pig to bed! Some good discussion and Youtube videos, but mostly just a "one upmanship" and an ego beyond comprehension. Where is the Rennlist Ombudsman when you need him/her?
05-07-2014 | 01:46 PM
#56
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The driver who crashed at Barça's front straight wasn't going to be able to save it anyway. He ran over a patch of coolant right before the braking zone.
Man that's some jittery "drifting". If you're going to drift, use the throttle, not the steering wheel.
Man that's some jittery "drifting". If you're going to drift, use the throttle, not the steering wheel.
05-11-2014 | 04:30 PM
#57
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From: Finland
Both feet in worked for me yesterday...
I was hooting around in my 997 with some very greasy and old Michelin PS2's.
So it was a lot of sliding, which I am quite used to but there is one MAJOR issue with my 997; It has an open differential!
I'm used to trailbraking and steering the car with throttle and if I mess up and slide the car, I keep my foot on the gas and just counter steer it back.
Well, it doesn't work like that with the open diff...the one wheel that is loose regains traction without any notice and off we are to the direction of the last steering input...
So I got on the gas too heavy in this corner and the tail broke loose, countersteered and kept my foot on the throttle, just as I do with my 993.
Then suddenly the inside tire regains traction and off we go... Tried to save it but soon realized my hands were not gonna keep up with this tank splapper so both feet in for a short moment and got the car straightened, then quickly back on the throttle and on my merry way.
Now shopping for a locking differential...
I was hooting around in my 997 with some very greasy and old Michelin PS2's.
So it was a lot of sliding, which I am quite used to but there is one MAJOR issue with my 997; It has an open differential!
I'm used to trailbraking and steering the car with throttle and if I mess up and slide the car, I keep my foot on the gas and just counter steer it back.
Well, it doesn't work like that with the open diff...the one wheel that is loose regains traction without any notice and off we are to the direction of the last steering input...
So I got on the gas too heavy in this corner and the tail broke loose, countersteered and kept my foot on the throttle, just as I do with my 993.
Then suddenly the inside tire regains traction and off we go... Tried to save it but soon realized my hands were not gonna keep up with this tank splapper so both feet in for a short moment and got the car straightened, then quickly back on the throttle and on my merry way.
Now shopping for a locking differential...
05-11-2014 | 11:04 PM
#58
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So I got on the gas too heavy in this corner and the tail broke loose, countersteered and kept my foot on the throttle, just as I do with my 993.
Then suddenly the inside tire regains traction and off we go... Tried to save it but soon realized my hands were not gonna keep up with this tank splapper so both feet in for a short moment and got the car straightened, then quickly back on the throttle and on my merry way.
Now shopping for a locking differential...
Then suddenly the inside tire regains traction and off we go... Tried to save it but soon realized my hands were not gonna keep up with this tank splapper so both feet in for a short moment and got the car straightened, then quickly back on the throttle and on my merry way.
Now shopping for a locking differential...
05-12-2014 | 01:28 AM
#59
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From: Finland
The car handles extremely well and is very fast even without the LSD, it's just that when you want to go really fast, you'd be better off with a locking differential.
Also, there is a very easy cure for the quickly wearing LSD plates; Replace them with CUP friction plates. Works on the 993 and there is no reason it wouldn't work on the 997.
05-12-2014 | 03:41 PM
#60
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From: Hortonville, Wi
I spun out this past friday and did both feet in and as soon as I stopped went on my merry way.
PHO,
I know you mean well but your "driving" and "drifting" are really sketchy as evidenced in your earlier threads this year. Also, nothing personal but what I am not doing is taking track advice from a guy that goes two feet in in his Automatic equipped 997. The plastic dead pedal on your car must look like crap
BTW, Drifting is done with power, once you break her loose you just hammer down the throttle. Very little steering input once the right angle is achieved.
PHO,
I know you mean well but your "driving" and "drifting" are really sketchy as evidenced in your earlier threads this year. Also, nothing personal but what I am not doing is taking track advice from a guy that goes two feet in in his Automatic equipped 997. The plastic dead pedal on your car must look like crap
BTW, Drifting is done with power, once you break her loose you just hammer down the throttle. Very little steering input once the right angle is achieved.
Last edited by Little Green; 05-13-2014 at 09:35 AM.