PushingMyLuck

I personally am on these forums to research buying a 1980s SC/Carerra 3.2,
but my friend would be someone who feels more comfortable with a modern car.
In fact, the newer, the better, for the typical consumer.

964: 1989-1994
993: 1993-1998
996: 1998-2005
997: 2004-2012

964, 993, 996.....They all seem to be within the same ballpark price, for various reasons.
For a non-purist/non-DIY guy, which model is the best bet?
I think my friend can find a car like the 996 for $30,000.

Is there an article or link that compares these 4 models? Pros and cons?
For example, the 996 gets a scathingly negative overall review here:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e-911-996-3-4/

Or an article with common failures, like this one:
• Rear main oil seals: Just like the Boxster, the 996 suffers from leaky rear main oil-seals. And, just like the Boxster, it’s a £20 replacement part with £500 labour, due to accessibility issues. It can make sense to swap the clutch at the same time.
• Intermediate shafts: Another niggle shared with the Boxster is intermediate-shaft bearing failure. The bearing goes and the shaft can wobble. When it does that, the pistons and valves have a punch-up. It’s a £7-8k fix.
• Radiators:The radiators in the nose are made from very thin aluminium, which can corrode and is susceptible to stone chips, with consequences for both the engine’s coolant supply and the air-con.
• Sat-nav: Don’t pay extra for a car with the optional sat-nav – it’s so dated these days that it’s nicer to have a car without it. Don’t you have the app on your iPhone 5?
Used cars: how to buy a second-hand Porsche 996 | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online


Lastly, thanks for all the helful responses. I am just making a VERY rough calculation. I didn't include costs like maintenance. I was not implying owning a sports car is cheap, just that it may be more affordable than people assume, in light of a few factors (Buy used, buy outright, own the car for a long period of time, realize a significant resale value) instead of assuming you need to pay $1200/mo to lease to get into one of these.

Mumbles

[QUOTE=PushingMyLuck;10700643]A friend wants to buy a new Porsche as a weekend car, but he was having a hard time justifying the $800/mo lease for a car that might get driven 3000 miles a year. Of course, I advised him to just buy the car outright and keep it for 20 years. Isn't that how people do it? That got me to thinking about total cost of ownership of an exotic. I was thinking more about people who lease exotics (rappers) vs. enthusiasts who buy/own the car for many years. What is the best way to calculate this?

How about an example? 1993 Porsche 911 MSRP was $55k. 20 years later, trade in value today is about $20k. Netting out the sale price, you’re out $35k to own the car for 20 years. That’s about $100/month. Is that right?

Today, a late model Porsche 911 with 20k miles can be had for $50k. Basically a new car. Assuming you have the money, what is the cost of owning this car for 20 years? $50k "self-financed” over 20 years comes out to $275/mo. But, you’d still have a residual value of $15k-$20k.

Numbers might be off, but can you net that residual right off the top? So, you only take a $30k loan for 20 years at 3% = $166/mo. (The main flaw here is that I am ignoring the time value of money)

The general premise holds, regardless. Owning an exotic for 20 years is a fraction of the cost of leasing a new $800 exotic every few years.... The key to this analysis is that the 3rd weekend car barely gets driven. Many people own these cars for 20 years, since they are often the 3rd car, and see little use. Most 20 year old 911’s are lucky to have 100k miles on them.

If the desire is to enjoy a true driver’s car, it appear that it can be done very affordably. But, if the goal is conspicuous consumption to impress others with the latest/greatest, then this analysis doesn't apply.

Anyone done this type of analysis and have anything to add?





Better of buying a Miata, no one can justify expenses paid by someone else.
Mere fabrication posting ?

Marine Blue

For most of us the third "fun" car is a hobby and not a means of transportation. Like playing golf, skiing, boating, sailing etc. You need to decide how much you are willing to spend on your hobby on a yearly basis and then buy within that spending budget. Cars are rarely a good investment unless your buying an F40 or some other rare up and coming collectable.

At least that's how I justify it in my mind.

Perk10

This was my exact response. Thanks for taking care of it for me

Fred R. C4S

I've been a Porsche owner and member of the PCA since the mid '70s. I've have had the pleasure and the privilege to own the cars listed in my signature and drive quite a few others. Over this period, with all the Porsche folks I've met, I don't know more than possibly one who has kept the same car for 20 years. That's a helluva long time. A lot of folks can't keep a spouse for 20 years.

If you have to keep the car for 20 years to make the numbers work financially, you might find yourself stretched 15 years from now when you try to find the ECU that no one makes any more. I'd suggest taking a shorter, perhaps more realistic few of 10 years or less. Then find a car you can afford and drive it as much as you can. Who knows where any of us will be in 10 or 20 years. We might not even be walking the earth anymore.

Good luck with your search.

PushingMyLuck

I'd think keeping a car 20 years is much more tolerable than keeping a spouse for 20 years. But yes, 10 years is probably a lot more realistic.

chris.hanle

I look at car ownership like food. I love cars and I love food. Neither are investments. Both allow me to live and live happily. Could I drive around in a cheap basic transportation/eat basic barely edible foods yes, but neither makes me happy. Ever go to a nice restaurant? Investment? You could fill up on much cheaper food and still live. But not as happily. Same goes for pcars.

Bruce In Philly

I don't get the idea of a "fun" car as a sometimes driver. Why not drive it all of the time? Why not have fun all of the time? And, keep the car until the wheels fly off.

I don't have the numbers, but buying a low mileage, newer car (say 1 to 2 years old), and one that has a great service history (the model/brand not that particular car) is the "cheapest" way to go. I have personal experience with this. Anyone who has owned a car for a long time knows this, you don't need a spreadsheet doing NPV etc.

My two Porsches were/are everyday drivers including snow. I would still be driving my 2000 Boxster S if the second engine didn't blow. I had 197K miles on it. While I did have a few high repair bills, overall, it was a generally inexpensive car to own when compared to other luxury brands such as Mercedes. So now I purchased a low mileage 2009 C2S and am planning to drive it for the next 12-15 years. If this engine is better than the last one, I fully expect this to come true.

I think the concept of a weekend car to be silly and massive waste of money. But that is my value system and real experiences. Oh, and more thing about a Porsche as a weekend car: How the heck will you ever learn to drive it and therefore appreciate it? When I hear someone with a weekend Porsche or Ferrari say "handles fantastic"... I think they are shallow posers. How the heck do they know how the car handles when they don't drive it nor even know how to?

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Quadcammer

well thats interesting...and by interesting, I mean asinine.

Most people's commutes have very few twisty roads. Most leave their suburb, jump on the highway, take a few surface streets, and arrive at their office. What driving skill is gained from that, I'm not sure.

I don't drive my car daily. It would be a .8 mile trip to the train station and back on literally one road. On the other hand, when I take it out on the weekends, I seek out twisty roads and drive it hard. I find plenty of occasions to practice trail braking, rev matching, smooth inputs, balancing the car with the throttle, etc.

chris.hanle

You do have to drive them to be able to tell. Either weekend or daily, and I do mean DRIVE them. But there are some who casually drive them even on the weekends, those are the posers. I do agree, most daily drives are limited to spirited on ramp bursts, but there are those who commute on roads like the "tail of the dragon", just not me.

Marine Blue

My Spyder is my weekend car and I prefer it that way. Dealing with a manual roof and one additional seat would not work as a DD for me, especially in the winters. Don't assume your way is the right way, world would be pretty boring if we all thought the same way.

MessyMarvin

If I were you in the $30K range I would buy a very well sorted 87-89 G50 Carerra, you can get one for mid to high 20's and have some money on the side for a few mods or maintenance. I prefer these over the 964. They are bullet proof, known to go 300K miles plus.

Ben Z

I bought my 997 4 years old and have now driven it daily for 4 1/2 years. I could sell it today for $10 grand less than I paid. In terms of depreciation that works out to $185/mo which is about the going lease rate (with zero down, to make a proper comparison) for an Asian econobox sedan. I did have the clutch and IMS done, but it was my choice, not a necessity. I also did buy an extended B2B warranty, but it has almost paid for itself (and still has 4+ years left to run). And I put on one set of tires (all seasons, $1100 for all 4) and did front and rear brakes (another $1000). But all in all thus far my Porsche has been the cheapest car to own I have ever had. I'll certainly keep it till the warranty runs out (2017) when it will be 12 years old. Then I'll decide whether to keep it or not, because even the little repairs on these cars and even by an indie are very costly. A lot depends on the market. If enough people look back nostalgically on the 997 as the "last Porsche before they went GT cruiser" and prices start to climb as they have done with the air-cooleds (not holding my breath ), then that would make repairs more worthwhile.


Just wanted to respond to that, I agree with your points and love those years, but those cars have weak A/C and no power steering and (I don't think) power adjustable seats or T/T steering wheel. So for example someone like me who lives in a hot year-round climate and has a bad shoulder and back, I prefer the creature-comforts of the later cars.

Edgy01

On the other hand, with the beating the US dollar is taking (and will be taking soon) you may be far better off with your dollars in tangible assets and not stuffed in a bank somewhere. Tell him to buy it and not think about the costs. After all, do you really worry about the price of gas when you fill the tank and there is a windy road with no traffic in front of you?

PushingMyLuck

What "beating" are you referring to?
YTD, the USD is flat against EUR.