997.1 Carrera 4S Blown to pieces
07-30-2013, 08:51 AM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
997.1 Carrera 4S Blown to pieces
Back in May 2012 I purchased a 997.1 Tiptronic Cabriolet Carrrera 4s
I purchased it from what I thought was a reputable dealer. The car was serviced by Porsche Reading and delivered to me May 29th. The dealer neglected to fix many things agreed upon and I had to pressure the finance company under their "dual liability" clause into carrying out work such as new brakes, fixing faulty A/C and replacing worn tires.
The service book was never produced despite being sold with a FSH. Since June 2012 I have been trying to get my hands on the service book. A few months ago I asked the Finance company to refund under the "misdescription of goods act". This case is in the final stages with the Financial Ombudsmen.
Last month whilst driving home from work, something went boom and I had to pull the car over. It was leaking all over the road and steaming away. I had the car transported to Porsche Reading and 3 weeks later and £1600 of exploratory work, this is their email along with an estimated £20k Bill.
"Good afternoon Mr ***
I have been talking through your case with ***** at Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited.
We have advised that there is no goodwill contribution from Porsche. Due to the short period of time you have owned the vehicle, Porsche recommends you refer back to your contractual partner, under the sales of goods act for the cost of the repair.
As you have no contract with Porsche, I am sure your legal representative has advised you, any action which you propose to take would need to be directed to your contractual partner and not Porsche.
The technical information supplied by our workshop is as follows:
Car recovered in for non start, on initial investigation found the vehicle would not turn over. The battery seemed to have charge as everything electrical operates correctly and the water pump does not seem to have failed.
On further investigation and removal of the engine coolant has been found to be leaking from bank 1 cylinder head gasket and also cylinder bores found to be full of water, no water found to be present in reservoir.
Metal parts from engine found in engine bay, on engine removal found to have a large hole in top of engine, also split crankcases, scored crankshaft and broken pistons.
Recommend engine replacement."
The car's dealer's warranty had expired during the months I had been trying to return it. The dealer is dust in the wind may I add.
I enclose some pictures below of the engine. This post is purely informative. I also want Porsche owners to know what it feels like to have a car blow up on them out of Warranty
I purchased it from what I thought was a reputable dealer. The car was serviced by Porsche Reading and delivered to me May 29th. The dealer neglected to fix many things agreed upon and I had to pressure the finance company under their "dual liability" clause into carrying out work such as new brakes, fixing faulty A/C and replacing worn tires.
The service book was never produced despite being sold with a FSH. Since June 2012 I have been trying to get my hands on the service book. A few months ago I asked the Finance company to refund under the "misdescription of goods act". This case is in the final stages with the Financial Ombudsmen.
Last month whilst driving home from work, something went boom and I had to pull the car over. It was leaking all over the road and steaming away. I had the car transported to Porsche Reading and 3 weeks later and £1600 of exploratory work, this is their email along with an estimated £20k Bill.
"Good afternoon Mr ***
I have been talking through your case with ***** at Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited.
We have advised that there is no goodwill contribution from Porsche. Due to the short period of time you have owned the vehicle, Porsche recommends you refer back to your contractual partner, under the sales of goods act for the cost of the repair.
As you have no contract with Porsche, I am sure your legal representative has advised you, any action which you propose to take would need to be directed to your contractual partner and not Porsche.
The technical information supplied by our workshop is as follows:
Car recovered in for non start, on initial investigation found the vehicle would not turn over. The battery seemed to have charge as everything electrical operates correctly and the water pump does not seem to have failed.
On further investigation and removal of the engine coolant has been found to be leaking from bank 1 cylinder head gasket and also cylinder bores found to be full of water, no water found to be present in reservoir.
Metal parts from engine found in engine bay, on engine removal found to have a large hole in top of engine, also split crankcases, scored crankshaft and broken pistons.
Recommend engine replacement."
The car's dealer's warranty had expired during the months I had been trying to return it. The dealer is dust in the wind may I add.
I enclose some pictures below of the engine. This post is purely informative. I also want Porsche owners to know what it feels like to have a car blow up on them out of Warranty
07-30-2013, 09:24 AM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Really sorry to hear about this!
It looks pretty bad,I'd be curious to learn more about what happened. Did it give you any signs it was overheating before this happened?
It's crazy that a failed head gasket would cause this! It must have been more : IMS maybe...
It looks pretty bad,I'd be curious to learn more about what happened. Did it give you any signs it was overheating before this happened?
It's crazy that a failed head gasket would cause this! It must have been more : IMS maybe...
07-30-2013, 11:01 AM
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
No lights, no warnings, no sounds.. I am not very technical and my knowledge is limited. But something about "con rods" and pistons breaking loose - tearing through the engine at speed...
They want £17k for the engine and £3k for a torque converter...I'm in for £1620 already for the previous information listed - surpised they didn;t wave this fee seeing as they have offered NO goodwill at all
They want £17k for the engine and £3k for a torque converter...I'm in for £1620 already for the previous information listed - surpised they didn;t wave this fee seeing as they have offered NO goodwill at all
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07-30-2013, 11:55 AM
#8
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Frankly, from your comment that the selling dealership "neglected to fix many things agreed upon" makes one wonder why you would be driving it, vice having it sitting at the dealership's service department getting things fixed up.
One always takes a risk when purchasing a used Porsche. You can't be sure that the previous owner was abusive to the engine/car or not, and there may be hidden damage that is simply waiting to let go on a new unsuspecting owner. I understand why Porsche AG draws the line at "goodwill" repairs when there is no real 'cause and effect' attributable to them.
For one's defense (or defence, in your case) one would first start off by obtaining a PPI on the vehicle, to include a full disclosure of the on board diagnostics numbers--the over revs (if any) and such, which report on such things which are recorded by engine time (hours since when the engine was placed into service). Generally, we assume less abuse with a Tiptronic or PDK (arriving later) car but anything can happen when it comes to a high performance car and an abusive driver.
Being that the engine failed so violently so shortly after your purchase, can we assume that all requisite fluids were up to capacities? What did the PPI show? Have you been able to find the service records yet? As I understand it, if the vehicle was serviced by a certified Porsche dealer, that data should be in their global database, and is readily available to the service personnel when they are servicing your automobile. It should therefore be available to you, as a routine service.
Best of luck as you sort out the cause of this catastrophic failure. Please keep the Rennlist forum appraised on your progress in getting to the bottom of this, toward resolution.
One always takes a risk when purchasing a used Porsche. You can't be sure that the previous owner was abusive to the engine/car or not, and there may be hidden damage that is simply waiting to let go on a new unsuspecting owner. I understand why Porsche AG draws the line at "goodwill" repairs when there is no real 'cause and effect' attributable to them.
For one's defense (or defence, in your case) one would first start off by obtaining a PPI on the vehicle, to include a full disclosure of the on board diagnostics numbers--the over revs (if any) and such, which report on such things which are recorded by engine time (hours since when the engine was placed into service). Generally, we assume less abuse with a Tiptronic or PDK (arriving later) car but anything can happen when it comes to a high performance car and an abusive driver.
Being that the engine failed so violently so shortly after your purchase, can we assume that all requisite fluids were up to capacities? What did the PPI show? Have you been able to find the service records yet? As I understand it, if the vehicle was serviced by a certified Porsche dealer, that data should be in their global database, and is readily available to the service personnel when they are servicing your automobile. It should therefore be available to you, as a routine service.
Best of luck as you sort out the cause of this catastrophic failure. Please keep the Rennlist forum appraised on your progress in getting to the bottom of this, toward resolution.
07-30-2013, 12:10 PM
#9
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Frankly, from your comment that the selling dealership "neglected to fix many things agreed upon" makes one wonder why you would be driving it, vice having it sitting at the dealership's service department getting things fixed up.
One always takes a risk when purchasing a used Porsche. You can't be sure that the previous owner was abusive to the engine/car or not, and there may be hidden damage that is simply waiting to let go on a new unsuspecting owner. I understand why Porsche AG draws the line at "goodwill" repairs when there is no real 'cause and effect' attributable to them.
For one's defense (or defence, in your case) one would first start off by obtaining a PPI on the vehicle, to include a full disclosure of the on board diagnostics numbers--the over revs (if any) and such, which report on such things which are recorded by engine time (hours since when the engine was placed into service). Generally, we assume less abuse with a Tiptronic or PDK (arriving later) car but anything can happen when it comes to a high performance car and an abusive driver.
Being that the engine failed so violently so shortly after your purchase, can we assume that all requisite fluids were up to capacities? What did the PPI show? Have you been able to find the service records yet? As I understand it, if the vehicle was serviced by a certified Porsche dealer, that data should be in their global database, and is readily available to the service personnel when they are servicing your automobile. It should therefore be available to you, as a routine service.
Best of luck as you sort out the cause of this catastrophic failure. Please keep the Rennlist forum appraised on your progress in getting to the bottom of this, toward resolution.
One always takes a risk when purchasing a used Porsche. You can't be sure that the previous owner was abusive to the engine/car or not, and there may be hidden damage that is simply waiting to let go on a new unsuspecting owner. I understand why Porsche AG draws the line at "goodwill" repairs when there is no real 'cause and effect' attributable to them.
For one's defense (or defence, in your case) one would first start off by obtaining a PPI on the vehicle, to include a full disclosure of the on board diagnostics numbers--the over revs (if any) and such, which report on such things which are recorded by engine time (hours since when the engine was placed into service). Generally, we assume less abuse with a Tiptronic or PDK (arriving later) car but anything can happen when it comes to a high performance car and an abusive driver.
Being that the engine failed so violently so shortly after your purchase, can we assume that all requisite fluids were up to capacities? What did the PPI show? Have you been able to find the service records yet? As I understand it, if the vehicle was serviced by a certified Porsche dealer, that data should be in their global database, and is readily available to the service personnel when they are servicing your automobile. It should therefore be available to you, as a routine service.
Best of luck as you sort out the cause of this catastrophic failure. Please keep the Rennlist forum appraised on your progress in getting to the bottom of this, toward resolution.
Have just had this exchange with Porsche:
Porsche:Good afternoon
Thank you for your email.
Unfortunately due to the vehicle not having full Porsche service history we are unable to comment on the integrity of the engine maintenance or indeed if this incidence could have been avoidable.
Whilst we have carried out investigation work up to this point as authorised by yourself we now await your further instructions. At this time we have an outstanding amount of £1620.00 inc which will need to be settled forthwith.
Please be aware we are unable to store your car here indefinitely, however I am happy for us to continue to look after your car until close of business on Friday 9th August, If you are unable to advise of any authorisation to continue the repair by this date we would request the car is collected and that your invoice is settled, however If you would like to leave your car with us we do offer storage arrangements for customers at a total of £75 per week.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Me: I am still awaiting the tech report..
Is this coming? I presumed the previous email was a summation?
Kind regards
Porsche: Good afternoon,
The information supplied in the earlier email is from the technician's report along with the photographs taken by the technician during and after the engine removal. There is no further information that I am able to supply.
Kind regards,
Can't help but feel I'm not getting much for my £1620
07-30-2013, 12:20 PM
#10
Race Director
I am not a lawyer but I'd say the car was misrepresented to you and had you known the FSH was a lie you would not have bought the car for the fear of what in fact did happen would happen.
07-30-2013, 12:26 PM
#11
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Hi Macster - I have had this ongoing situation for over a year now - the financial omdudsmen are due to make their ruling, after months of deliberation, in the next 48 hours.
Unfortunately, as the damage happened after my original claim, I will have to file a seperate claim for compensation with the FO if I am not awarded a full refund. Very complicated and stressful issue.
The only light is that I had finance on the car which gives me consumer representation for free.
Unfortunately, as the damage happened after my original claim, I will have to file a seperate claim for compensation with the FO if I am not awarded a full refund. Very complicated and stressful issue.
The only light is that I had finance on the car which gives me consumer representation for free.
07-30-2013, 12:32 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
What is the build date for your car? If it's 2005, maybe you quality for IMS lawsuit (although I think it's only applicable to US).
Beside, it may not look like IMS failure... good luck!
Beside, it may not look like IMS failure... good luck!
07-30-2013, 01:18 PM
#14
Drifting
I believe this is the worst case of "d-chunk" we've seen documented on the forum. Best of luck with the FO ruling. Sadly this case and "my poor car's" situation further reinforces the fact that dealers should never be trusted and that the buyer should always secure a PPI prior to purchase. And service records have to be provided/secured upfront prior to purchase. We all hope for the best outcome and please keep us posted. GL
