Is the Carrera 4 much better than Carrera 2 in the winter ?
08-26-2013, 11:15 AM
#32
Drifting
Hard to say whether the type of tire is more important than the number of driven wheels. For sure, the most important factor is that the main drive wheels are under the heaviest end of the car. Front-engine, FWD cars perform well for the same reason, but a rear-engine RWD car should perform even better because of the rearward weight shift under acceleration.
I live in Denver, and for 2 years my '86 Carrera (RWD, no ABS) was the only car I had. With 4 winter tires (Dunlop Winter Sport), it pulled like a tractor on hard pack and icy roads. I recall driving across town in a Christmas blizzard a few years ago. There were SUVs and FWD cars stuck on roads with their wheels spinning as I slowly drove right by them.
Not only did the car perform amazingly well on snow, it was an absolute blast to drive in those conditions! All you guys who store your cars for the winter don't realize what you're missing out on...I'll never forget how much fun I discovered doing slow speed drifts around corners. On a dry road, you'd have to be going fast enough to land in jail to do that, but on snow, you can do it under 20 mph. An AWD 911 would no doubt have a bit more traction and be safer, but probably not be as much fun.
I say get the C2 or C2S for maximum fun on both dry and snowy roads. Just plan on a second set of wheels with winter tires mounted.
I live in Denver, and for 2 years my '86 Carrera (RWD, no ABS) was the only car I had. With 4 winter tires (Dunlop Winter Sport), it pulled like a tractor on hard pack and icy roads. I recall driving across town in a Christmas blizzard a few years ago. There were SUVs and FWD cars stuck on roads with their wheels spinning as I slowly drove right by them.
Not only did the car perform amazingly well on snow, it was an absolute blast to drive in those conditions! All you guys who store your cars for the winter don't realize what you're missing out on...I'll never forget how much fun I discovered doing slow speed drifts around corners. On a dry road, you'd have to be going fast enough to land in jail to do that, but on snow, you can do it under 20 mph. An AWD 911 would no doubt have a bit more traction and be safer, but probably not be as much fun.
I say get the C2 or C2S for maximum fun on both dry and snowy roads. Just plan on a second set of wheels with winter tires mounted.
That's why most of us keep our "precious" 911's garaged at those times.
08-26-2013, 11:19 AM
#33
Drifting
08-26-2013, 12:03 PM
#34
Drifting
I have new to me 997 S2. I may mothball it for the winter, or sell it. I may drive it with the snow tires I just bought. My issue will be, it is lowered. Though I just bought some used stock ride height springs.
For the above 4S vs 2S debate. If equipped with four new snow tires, the 4S will out accelerate the 2wd drive car. In braking, both cars are the same. I would suspect the traction control will take over in the corners ???
This car was driven on sunny winter days by the previous owner. Parked when the roads were white.
For the above 4S vs 2S debate. If equipped with four new snow tires, the 4S will out accelerate the 2wd drive car. In braking, both cars are the same. I would suspect the traction control will take over in the corners ???
This car was driven on sunny winter days by the previous owner. Parked when the roads were white.
Last edited by BIG smoke; 12-16-2013 at 04:48 PM.
08-26-2013, 12:22 PM
#35
08-26-2013, 03:01 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
But as I mentioned, I drove that car through two winters and luck had nothing to do with anything.
08-26-2013, 03:04 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Lots of posts repeating this mantra...I strongly disagree. All season tires are neither great nor bad in any season. They are a compromise that work pretty well in all conditions, and a very practical choice.
08-26-2013, 04:03 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Not sure why this is even discussed over and over again! Here is a quick summary:
- C4 > C2 in snow acceleration
- C4 > C2 in snow cornering (can power your way out)
- C4 = C2 in snow Braking if using the same tires
- BOTH will fail WITHOUT Winter tires
- BOTH have issues with ground clearance if roads are not plowed
- BOTH could do ok with winter tires if driven right
- 911 > other RWD in winter with rear bias weight
- Overall --> C4 > C2 in Winter/snow
Now, pick your poison!
- C4 > C2 in snow acceleration
- C4 > C2 in snow cornering (can power your way out)
- C4 = C2 in snow Braking if using the same tires
- BOTH will fail WITHOUT Winter tires
- BOTH have issues with ground clearance if roads are not plowed
- BOTH could do ok with winter tires if driven right
- 911 > other RWD in winter with rear bias weight
- Overall --> C4 > C2 in Winter/snow
Now, pick your poison!
08-26-2013, 05:08 PM
#40
Pro
Thread Starter
If you had some excellent all season tires on a C2 ... it snowed ... you have 10 cm of fresh snow on the road. You only have 1 choice of upgrade: C4 or winter tires. Which would you choose for the ride home (and why ?).
Seems like some would pick AWD (C4) and
others would pick Winter tires.
Seems like some would pick AWD (C4) and
others would pick Winter tires.
08-26-2013, 05:40 PM
#41
If you had some excellent all season tires on a C2 ... it snowed ... you have 10 cm of fresh snow on the road. You only have 1 choice of upgrade: C4 or winter tires. Which would you choose for the ride home (and why ?).
Seems like some would pick AWD (C4) and
others would pick Winter tires.
Seems like some would pick AWD (C4) and
others would pick Winter tires.
It is my belief that - it is the cold temperatures of the surface and the environment that are deleterious to the grip of the tires not necessarily the snow itself building up in the tread.
Therefore, I'd choose winter tires in the winter for the maximum cold temperature grip delivered by their special rubber compound on the tread surface.
Most especially if driving a fine automobile where even a low speed loss of tire grip slide into any solid object would be an expensive and heartbreaking yet completely avoidable event.
08-26-2013, 06:53 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
AS tires are designed to keep their grip down to cold temperatures, just not as well as dedicated winter tires. They also don't have the grippy tread pattern of winter tires. If at all possible, have two sets of wheels/tires so you'll have the optimum setup for dry or snowy roads.
I had AS tires on my 928 and they were excellent in the cold, although I didn't have an occasion to use them on snow. For you 911searcher, you could probably get by with the AS tires on a C4, but again you'd be better off if you can manage an extra set of wheels/tires for winter in the Great White North.
I had AS tires on my 928 and they were excellent in the cold, although I didn't have an occasion to use them on snow. For you 911searcher, you could probably get by with the AS tires on a C4, but again you'd be better off if you can manage an extra set of wheels/tires for winter in the Great White North.
08-26-2013, 08:42 PM
#43
Just bought a C4S as my daily driver with the intention to put winter tires on it and drive all winter long here in CO.
Just seemed to make a lot a sense to me and I've driven RWD, FWD and AWD in snowy states all my life. Tires do matter, but AWD is really great when matched with the right tires.
I'll post an informed opinion on how well I think the C4S drives in the snow next spring.
Just seemed to make a lot a sense to me and I've driven RWD, FWD and AWD in snowy states all my life. Tires do matter, but AWD is really great when matched with the right tires.
I'll post an informed opinion on how well I think the C4S drives in the snow next spring.
08-26-2013, 09:43 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
winter tires are a MUST on rwd cars in snowy canada.
my small lexus does "ok" with snow tires in the winter, but like my c2s its low to the ground + rear wheel drive.... on those terrible snow days a few times a year, any car low to the ground, rwd even with snow tires will still have trouble.
my small lexus does "ok" with snow tires in the winter, but like my c2s its low to the ground + rear wheel drive.... on those terrible snow days a few times a year, any car low to the ground, rwd even with snow tires will still have trouble.
08-26-2013, 09:46 PM
#45
Nordschleife Master
amen!
Not sure why this is even discussed over and over again! Here is a quick summary:
- C4 > C2 in snow acceleration
- C4 > C2 in snow cornering (can power your way out)
- C4 = C2 in snow Braking if using the same tires
- BOTH will fail WITHOUT Winter tires
- BOTH have issues with ground clearance if roads are not plowed
- BOTH could do ok with winter tires if driven right
- 911 > other RWD in winter with rear bias weight
- Overall --> C4 > C2 in Winter/snow
Now, pick your poison!
- C4 > C2 in snow acceleration
- C4 > C2 in snow cornering (can power your way out)
- C4 = C2 in snow Braking if using the same tires
- BOTH will fail WITHOUT Winter tires
- BOTH have issues with ground clearance if roads are not plowed
- BOTH could do ok with winter tires if driven right
- 911 > other RWD in winter with rear bias weight
- Overall --> C4 > C2 in Winter/snow
Now, pick your poison!