alexb76

and I assume you kept your 997, right?

alexb76

I like to add that the same applies to 997.2. While I didn't like the engine sound/exhaust on 997.2, it does have the same dynamics and it definitely improves on the weak gadgets of 997.1 like Nav, BT, iPod, etc... (really the only thing that is lacking).

997.2 to 991 is absolutely a waste of money! Specially if you wanted PDK and you have 997.2 PDK. As I said laws of diminishing returns are in play now and this will continue.

sameerg

Abso - friggin - lutely !!!!!!

I realized it's value in my life only after i had a serious buyer for it. Turned him down!!!

sameerg

For me personally.... I do not care about any gadgetry in my car at all. I have maybe used the radio 6 times since i've had this car. It is only the steering, suspension, clutch and gears and the glorious wail of the flat -6 that does it for me.

For gadgetry i have my other car loaded to the brim with all goodies.

pissedpuppy

997.1 - last of the true water cooled 911s

McCrazy

I just traded in my 996 C2 for a 997 C2S and I love the new car (hated the interior more than anything on the 996). In the past I have tended to cycle through vehicles rather quickly but I am planning to keep this 997 a long time.

The gadgets may be lacking on the .1 (no Bluetooth but can be added, and the navigation is a little weak) but it is a CPO with only 23,000 miles, Sport Chrono, memory seats, PSE, PASM, navigation, sport shifter (I think), heated seats, and is in a whole other league compared to my trusty 996.

I looked at the 991 and while it looks very nice inside it is way out of my price range and doesn't offer anything substantial to me over my .1 other than some nicer gadgets and interior and a little better fuel economy.

John in Bismarck

Great writeup. Our 06 makes me smile every time I drive it. I've wanted a 911 for a long time, and we are blessed that we could afford to buy this car last year. It was the best 911 we could afford, and at our age, with retirement coming in a year, I don't see us buying anything more expensive. It ran flawlessly to Traverse City and back in June for the Parade (over 2500 miles round trip). To me the styling is superb, the ergonomics are perfect, and the performance is more than enough for us. We're delighted to own and drive this fine automobile.

KeninBlaine

Don't know how I missed this thread till now, but very well done Alex. I love my car and enjoy every drive in it, other than sitting in Vancouver traffic jams periodically. Thanks for the great analysis.

vjd3

We all have our own opinions and conclusions to make ... I went through this recently with my 2006 C2 cab. The car was CPO, but after seeing an almost identical 06 C2 cab in for a new engine due to the IMS (at 26k miles) at my dealer, and talking to a couple of people who are very knowledgeable about 911 engines, I was not comfortable owning a 997.1 without a warranty. It may be a low percentage chance that you will lose an engine, but if your number comes up it's a staggering bill to pay. I have been driving 911s daily since 1990, and owned several 911SCs, 3.2 Carreras, 993s, 996s and even an 87 930 before getting my 997. I'm familiar with all the foibles and potential problems with each series -- broken head studs on the SC, premature valve guide wear on the 3.2 Carrera, SAI on the 993 -- but it's the IMS issue that's disquieting to me, because there's no warning and it can just let go with disastrous consequences.

So, for me, it came down to either purchasing an extended aftermarket warranty, as many have done, or moving up to a DFI engined car. The 09 and up cars are not inexpensive, particularly if they are CPO at a Porsche dealer. Ultimately I was down to deciding between a "new" 2012 997 C4S PDK cab and a preowned 2012 991 C2 PDK cab.

Driving the 991 convinced me. I am an old-school 911 guy, I drove a 993 for years and years, and have had six of them. The 996s left me flat, but the 997 was the closest "modern" car that retained enough of the old 993 character, but with more power, great handling and safety features. I loved that car. The 991 is a completely different car ... but it is a marvelous car. The 2nd generation PDK is a significant improvement over the first generation, as well, although the first is very good.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, at least not on this forum, but to me, the 991 was well worth the price of admission. The cost of a new car is very, very high, but the one I bought was somewhere near $25k below its original not-too-outrageous sticker (PDK, full leather, sport chrono) with only 4k miles on it, so I am a happy guy.

My advice to anyone with a 2006-2008 997 would be to research and get yourself a warranty. Chances are you will have a small problem or two that will largely pay for the cost over time. The recent thread about the gentleman whose 997.1 apparently lost its headgasket and imploded is a reminder of how expensive these cars can be if the worst happens.

Neither car is a bad choice -- I loved my 997 -- but sometimes insurance is a good thing to have.

Chris Stewart

The IMS issue you highlight is the reason why when my warranty comes close to finishing in 3 years time I will be looking to upgrade. I love my car its amazing but cant even begin to explain how crap it would be to have the engine explode and be left with a huge bill that would be considerably higher than the price difference between 997.1 and .2 and possibly in 3 years time between the 997.1 and an early 991 as well.

utkinpol

that is not an accurate statement.

go to a dealer with 997.1 car, 2006 or 2007 and they will offer low $30k for a trade-in. private market sale will be low $40k may be.
997.2 GTS cars still sit in the $80k area quite firmly.

no way how you look at the engine replacement it will not cost you $50k. and what you get for $50k going from 997.1 into 997.2? almost nothing.

new 991 car is $20K above GTS. an average engine rebuild costs $12k, an absolute awesome engine rebuild costs $24k. what makes more sense to do? 997.1 chassis is just fine with me.

sixgun95

I thought the IMS was "not" an issue beginning in 06 and for later models? Why are you saying it still is an isue for 06-08 models?

vjd3

There's a lot of discussion on that topic ... they improved the bearing on the 06-08 cars, but they can still have problems. The IMS settlement covers only the 05 997, which has the earlier bearing shared with the 996. The 06-08 engine with the larger bearing should have a lower likelihood of failure, but it can fail. They abandoned it altogether in the 09 and onward 911s, and never used it at all in the Turbo or the GT-3.

Replacing the engine with a "new" one, as they would do under the CPO warranty, will run you $25k. You can rebuild for less, but what would bother me is either way you still have that bearing in there, and Porsche doesn't warrant the new engine past the original car's warranty so at that point, you are flying solo on it. Presumably, they would be generous with their goodwill in such a scenario. I don't think any of the engineered solutions for the earlier bearing apply to the newer bearing but I could be mistaken.

To me, it's money well spent to have the warranty, just make sure the warranty is going to cover the IMS, get it in writing, as many others have done with the Fidelity warranty. Another reason I did not go that route is my servicing dealer wanted to sell me their own warranty instead, and I was not comfortable with that as at least there are some instances of folks on here with the Fidelity warranty having the repair covered.

There are plenty of 996s, Boxsters, early 997s running around merrily with that original bearing, and they are just fine. In all likelihood, you won't have a problem. I prefer to have my bases covered, which is why I bought a CPO car in the first place. It used to be that you could get a crate 996 engine for $12k, but those days appear to be over. It's gotten very expensive now that they've moved on from those motors. A crate engine on a 993 was $35k last time I checked and I don't even think you can get one anymore.

From what I saw recently looking at low mileage CPO cabs at Porsche dealers, asking prices on 06 cars were in the mid-high 40s, 09 was a pretty good jump to the 60s, and 2012 cars were almost as expensive as the preowned 2012 991s.

alexb76

Your analysis and data is incorrect, and are worrying for stuff that really does not ever happen, statistically speaking. Even 05 and earlier failure rate is below 3%, so this is non-sense all around. Also, you know that an 05 build car could be insured as '06, right? So, that car could have had the old bearing anyways.

Now, if you personally do not feel comfortable with the less than 0.1% failure rate of a car and need to shell out 30-40K to sleep easily at night, go for it! For me, it doesn't make any sense at all. A 3yr bumper-to-bumer warranty costs $3K, now that's a better ROI IMO.

PS. I did significant research on 06+ engine cars, from various Porsche dealers and head mechanics, to Porsche corp itself who is my company's partner (head of Porsche Club of all Germany, and head of Cup Racing in Germany). The 06 IMS design has worked, and there is really no statistically relevant failure data (vs. standard deviation) on these engines, end of the story!

Chris Stewart

I took the warranty option. That's why I was happy to go with an 07. The IMS issue is less than an early 05 I agree. However it can still happen.

I know people say it is only a 3% chance but I have personally seen the IMS issue happen to owners 4 times. Two of the cases were covered under warranty by Porsche. 1 was covered by Porsche with a very low participation fee as he always serviced his car with them and the last guy got a bill for 30k CHF. I just don't want to be the unlucky guy, so in 2 and a bit years I will start looking around to see what my options are. In terms of the prices of a 997.1 utkinpol your price ranges seem to be for higher mileage base Carrera's rather than lower mileage S.

Look there are other solutions I could just pay to get the IMS solution installed or I could take out another warranty although the older the car the more expensive they get or I could for about 10 to 15 upgrade to a slightly newer model. Each solution has it merits.