I am a new member. I have an 06 c2 tiptronic cabriolet 997, and have had it over 2 years.

Recently at aDE event, my brakes failed. I was on my 5th braking run and went 100 yards past the stopping point. No trouble lights. Could feel ABS on the pedal. No error codes and fluid levels fine, and dry.
Conditions were cool and damp. I had noticed the braking deteriorating in previous runs but nothing like the final run.

Any one else experience this? Ideas? Definitely a confidence shaker.

 

Did the pedal go soft, or was it rock hard. Sounds like "ice pedal." Here's a link to a discussion of it.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...ly-got-me.html

 

How many miles do you have on the car? It may be time to swap out your brake lines. The Carrera comes stock with rubber brake lines which you'll want to check for aging. I went with SS braided lines recently which will help somewhat with this issue. Also depends on how you ride the brakes and which pads you use... those members who track will likely chime in as well re how they remedied this type of issue. BTW, I'll be posting a DIY re the SS braid line shortly if you want to DIY that project.

 

i agree with either ice mode (has only happened to me once, that i recall, at VIR) if the pedal went hard...or if pedal soft, maybe you simply cooked the fluid? are you still using OEM fluid and driving at intermediate level or above? or was the fluid old?

 

Cousteau, you'll have to answer some of the above questions for us to help. Cool day? Maybe you did not cook the brake fluid but it is easy to do if you haven't replaced your fluid a number of years. Were the braking sessions close together I.e. within 4-5 mins of each other? Did the pedal go to the floor?
Damp day and you felt the ABS? Yep, you can miss your braking point by a hundred yards under those situation. How about the other participants? Don't compare with a regular hatchback, though. They might not have reached the same speed as your P-car.
I don't have enough experience with ice mode as I have only encountered it a couple of times in the track. Still can't explain why it happened!

 

What do you mean by "brake failure"? You need to explain this in more details to diagnose the issue.

What did the visual inspection show? Was the pad intact? Was there any other issues?

I just think that you might have over-heated your pads, as I cannot see any other issue. Did you have any issues post track-day? Like could you drive home safe?

 

Does the Carrera S come with stock rubber brake lines as well as the Carrera?

 

Yes, but frankly, the SS lines do not make any difference at all. I've had them one on my previous cars and maybe it helped firm up pedal, but on the Carrera it's definitely not needed.

 

Pad fade or Ice Mode. Your brakes did not fail. You need to brake a little earlier. Late late late braking is not the key to go fast on the track.

Carrera brake lines are fine...don;t waste your money of stainless lines. The brake lines already are reinforced.

 

+1... very informative read. Re the OP's braking issues, as I've mentioned, I have to defer to those who have experience re track related brake issues here.

 

Thanks all for the great feedback and comments

For all those that posted questions - the fluid was new with only a few thousand kms on it. Brakes were all checked out and fine before and after, all parts are stock.

But the description of ice pedal is EXACTLY what I experienced. Firm brake after flooring it on a straight away, but only 25% or less braking power- it does feel exactly like being on ice (which I have lots of experience with). I did also feel the ABS during the whole procedure.

As for the fellow who asked if it drove ok after - don't know as I hit the wall.

Have the car back now - call me concerned and nervous.

 

Ice pedal and oil starvation are two possible catastrophic consequences of tracking a regular (not a Cup Car) 997. A friend who built a 997 H car to run this season has suffered from both.

 

it's definitely something to be concerned about but braking/driving style may help to mitigate: instead of "stomping" the pedal (as we novices are prone to do at the end of a high speed straight with the wall approaching!) try "smoothly transitioning" to a firm brake. this may require you braking a bit earlier but not only might it help with the ice pedal, it is also a smoother way around the track.

yep, i know him too. but of course his was heavily modified for racing. we also know another guy with a cayman who went back to stock rotors/pads (from giro disc/pagids) and that significantly cut down his ice pedal.

 

Oh no! I didn't realize you actually crashed... truly sorry!

Regardless, I would inspect the brakes thoroughly but it looks like you were having the ice mode, or some other failure.

 

well, only good thing about ice mode is that it affects all 'streetable' cars factory makes. only cup car has ABS ECU that is not doing it.

why and how it happens is quite black magic, overall simplified concept is that if you slam hard on brakes while front axle is slightly lifted or track is bumpy - you (may) get into such mode.

so the way to work brakes on those cars is to gently step on a pedal preloading front then quickly increase pressure like squeezing an insect all the way to the floor, so you still do it fast but you do not 'kick' the pedal.

if you get into ice mode - you step off pedal, then retry, then step off and retry - stupid morons who did this program have some 'delay' there so you need to give it some time to 'reset', if you retry too fast it does not do sh$t. if you still stand on the pedal - it also does not do sh$t, it remains in the 'ice mode' never mind if traction conditions changed.

sorry to hear you had to meet the wall because of this, but, well, it happens.

I now always extend my braking zones to make sure I have a chance to slow down a bit to steer away at least. some track may not have such things in some corners, so, be your own judge. you are not in the race at DE and your primary objective in my opinion to be able to drive your car back home.