kosmo

ive looked at the R8 also. the lack of data on this model is frustrating. I guess theres still a supply/demand imbalance. It will be a interesting to see what happens to 2ndary prices when the refresh comes out. Another car thats holding (even rising) is the F458.
On P cars, I think the curves are especially steep due to the over priced options which inflate the MSRP.

MJBird993

You haven't lost your shirt yet because you haven't sold the car. If you remember the 993, the prices on those cars actually went up and then held steady for quite a while.

But by my math, you've lost about 10K/year so far, which is on the high side but then it is a turbo and was very expensive to start. Personally, I budget around 7K a year for depreciation (BMW, 911, etc.) when I work on my budget for a car. I just recently bought a new Pano S, my first new Porsche (the first three were used) because my analysis of Porsche prices is in line with what "sjfehr" posted above. And with the Pano being new in 2010, I wasn't excited about buying a first year car, used. So I bought new, albeit a 2012 when the 2013 were starting to come out, so I got a decent discount.

So... to answer your question, no, I don't have a formula. But from what you're saying about the Audi, I think you could easily justify buying one new since there are so few available used, and of those, they are sold by dealers with substantial mark-ups. So where's the savings?

Regards

fast1

I think you have a very prudent approach, and I tried to follow it a few months ago but I'm not willing to "settle" at this point. I never purchased a used car, so I'm not accustomed to buying a car in either an interior or exterior color that is not appealing to me or having a tranny that I don't want.

BTW I got an email from my Dealer last night which referenced Porsche leasing specials. The link below lists one of these specials:
http://www.porscheofdelaware.com/por...sid-28615.html

$799 a month for 48 months with a $9K deposit

bdiamond001

I have used a very simplistic strategy for buying my past 2 911s. Buy a 3-4 year old 911. This time I bought an 06 C2S. Spend around 50k and sell it around 25k four years later. It works out to be a little over $500 a month. There is no car out there that I would rather drive. The price is reasonable and when I hear what lease prices are for lesser vehichles, I am shocked that others don't use this simple rationalization. Yes I know the leases are for new cars, but $500 amonth to drive a Porsche.

Suns_PSD

It's a 6 year old car that has maintained 58% of it's value. What do you expect?
Honestly the stated depreciation is more agreeable than a Honda Accord. I bought a Saturn for $18K in '08 and sold it 18 months later for 50% of it's new value. That means a little economy car cost $500/ month in depreciation. Your Turbo is closer to $763/ month depreciation. But it was 7x the cost new!

You also need to consider that all higher end cars have resale problems. I was offered a $110K Jag, that had 7K miles, for $6,500 recently. That's freakin' depreciation. But that's all the Jag dealer was offering her.

The fact is that guys that can afford to buy $100K cars have a lot of disposable income and have less interest in buying used cars in general lowering the value of most luxury brands.

P cars are a little different in that it's such an enthusiast car that I think more people of average means express interest in owning them, like me for example. I definitely can't drop $130K on a car, but I'll stretch and spend $75K for my dream car.

sjfehr

I don't think most people "get" that the only real sunk cost in a car is the depreciation. It's not a $50k car, it's a $25k car with a $25k security deposit.

kosmo

um, no. Run the #s on a Accord or Camry. way less depreciaton.

fast1

Honestly the stated depreciation is more agreeable than a Honda Accord. I bought a Saturn for $18K in '08 and sold it 18 months later for 50% of it's new value. That means a little economy car cost $500/ month in depreciation. Your Turbo is closer to $763/ month depreciation. But it was 7x the cost new!

To be fair I expect that you wholesaled the Saturn, and a six year old turbo would retail for around $75K. I have three sons and my graduation present to each one of them was a Honda Civic which I leased for 3 years, 15K miles a year. My out of pocket for each lease, excluding taxes and tags, was a little less than 9K or tad less than $250 a month. You can now lease a moderately equipped 991 for $800 a month for 48 months, 5K miles a year, with a $9K deposit.

Porsches are great cars, but to suggest that their depreciation is comparable to that of an economy car is a stretch.

Spyerx

Actually, the color, tranny, interior are the easy specs to get unless you want paint to sample. It just takes patience. With Porsche, its all the little over-priced add-ons that kick up the MSRP way beyond normal. So I always look for the color and model I want first (and with my sports cars, manuals), then I look for a few key options, which for me must be performance oriented. I prefer stripped or lower option spec cars. Less to break. Less weight.

That's 800/month + 187/month (for deposit, not including cost of $) + tax (in CA) is nearly 1100/month. $53k

Buy a lightly used model for $60k, keep it for 4 years, sell it for 30k. That 30k, $625/mo. Assuming you pay cash. About 1/2 the price. And you can keep it, forever. Keep the lease? That'll cost you the residual buy-out + tax. And often the residuals are pumped up on special leases so the buy-out isn't worth it. (this depends)

Remember with a least you pay for depreciation + money factor. The MF will kill you unless it's very, very close to 0. (sub 1% interest equiv).

Anyway, that's my take on it. And with today's crappy financial market I can't think of a better way to spend $60k :-)

Spyerx

I just ran numbers on a Honda lease special for kicks:
22k cap cost, 26k list, 14.5k buy out at end of lease, 36mo, 219/mo, $0 due at sign
This = approx: 56% residual and .25% finance fee.
So cost of depreciation = 7875, rent fee is 133(almost 0, its subsidized to move cars)

So basically, the Honda with 12k miles per year, loses 44% of it's value over 3 years.

On Porsche:
Porsche Financial Services' August buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 991 S Coupe with 10,000 miles per year are .00200 and 57%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

What does this mean? a 2 year lease on porsche is 43% lost value and almost 5% interest.

fast1

I agree. Leasing is a good option for those who can write off their leasing payments on their tax forms. The only risk that your method presents is the cost of a catastrophic repair. When I buy my Porsches I negotiate hard for the lowest price, typically order my car during the winter months, and keep the car for 7-8 years. That's 3 - 4 years without warranty, but I mitigate the risk by adherring to Porsche's maintenance schedule, except for oil changes which I do yearly even though I put less than 3K miles on the car each year.

Tcc1999

Now that's a rationalization I can get behind! (Of course the fact that a simple S and P index fund is returning about 13 percent YTD is irrelevant because you can't drive, or in any other way, have an iota of fun with it!).

GregGH

Depreciation Curves ... when you use Kelly Blue Book or Edmunds ...and look up resale prices ... do they factor the 'yearly' depreciation once ( when ? ) or do they chop into monthly amounts ... ?

Anyone played with the comparison ...tried a could of samples and seems KBB is higher for low milage cars ( looking at 2009 range )

Also compared a 'bunch' of ads on auto trader.com to KBB and saw everything - from a low ball turbo to a lot at 10-13% over KBB ?? kept data on excel and will see how prices change.

Greg

Edgy01

Since the US Dollar will soon be virtually worthless, keeping your wealth in tangible assets seems more prudent. Owning a couple of Porsches gives you enjoyment--which is a value that varies for everyone, and is hard to nail down.

GregGH

Hi Edgy01 ...Is that 400 oz silver bar I see in the passenger seat ? ...:-)

Greg