alexb76

Any late build 2006... some might be MY 2006, some MY 2007. Ensure you check the build date when you look at a car.

MikeJim

Last August, I had to replace my engine in a 2006 997S with 57,824 miles. IMS failure was to blame.

Porsche North America required installation by a Porsche dealer. Jim Ellis Porsche in Atlanta did the work. It took two days. Labor & Parts: $35,589.69 -Less core return (-$17,445.33) = Actual cost $18,144.36

Came with a two-year warranty.

utkinpol

I would agree. Gt3 cars are fine, street cars are not so much.
DFI cars did not seem to have scored cylinders reported and overall new 9a1 engine seems to be OK.

Suns_PSD

So is the GT3 engine a completely different design? I just assumed it was the same block in a higher state of tune?

Does the GTS have the same engine as the GT3 but w/ amenities in the cab?

What is an IMS failure?

utkinpol

no. GTS has DFI 9a1 engine.

GT3 has same old design that is used in turbo cars and was in 993 cars - so called GT block. same engine is used in race cup cars. 996 and 997.1 cars had M96 and M97 engines which proved to be crap.
they run until they run, then they may blow if you are not so lucky. people who get those engines rebild may have better chances, but it seems this may get quite expensive if Porsche will persist with they strategy on parts market.

X51

Suns_PSD,
To further utkinpol's points above, the GT3 block is the "safe" one as compared to the standard M96 996 and M97 997 blocks.
The GTS uses the 2009 and newer Direct Fuel Injection motor, so far known to be "safe".
IMS = Intermediate Shaft Failure, which simply is when the IMS bearing wears out, shaft gets out of balance and KABOOM, the engine is shelled. I"m oversimplifying of course, but that's the result.

Fred R. C4S

I'd like to pose a question the OP, if you were Porsche, what price would you put on an engine core and how would you arrive at that?

I've read the story of your sudden catastrophic engine failure and I do understand your loss and frustration. However there a couple of points that haven't been shared. What does the DME report on your engine regarding engine over revs?

You mention "cast" rod bolts. Where did you learn that the rod bolts were cast? As a retired engineer, at one time a bolted joint designer, I've never heard of anyone even suggest such a material for a bolted joint. Perhaps you gotten things mixed up with the rod material itself.

Also, a common practice for highly loaded bolts is a tightening method where to bolts are actually torqued to their yield point at assembly. In such applications, the bolts are only used once and are replaced on any subsequent reassembly of the parts.

Just asking......

Alan C.

If you consider the number of cars on the road with torqued to yield rod bolts there aren't that many failures.

utkinpol

google is your friend. porsche did a lot of 'cost reduction' initiatives with those M96 engines when they came out with 996 car. search is your friend. you`ll be amazed.
i knew nothing of all that when i bought my 2006 C2. i would never do that if I knew all i know today, but, it is too late by now and heck with it.

Fred R. C4S

I'm sorry, but try as I might, I can't find anything through Google regarding cast con rod bolts.

Suns_PSD

The GT3 sounds amazing. Is there a model that has the same drivetrain but w/ amenties in the cab, particularly a back seat?

So DFI 9a1 block is also the same product used in the 997.2?

The GT3/ Turbos have clearly a much stronger block design, correct?

I'd be furious if my $100K car had a $20K failure w/ 50K on the clock, that was known to be common to the model and Porsche didn't policy it.

Are there any other options for this repair? Like some race shop builder that can build a much better engine for the same or even less money?

My wife's '06 Murano, bought well used and out of warranty lost a CVT some time back and I ran it up to the local Nissan dealer. They came back and told me that since that year Murano saw a few transmission failures from time to time, Nissan warranties all of them for 9 years, 120K miles, to any owner. The wife will be getting a brand new Murano soon as a result of that sort of support.

Suns_PSD

Engine manufacturers often charge huge cores to prevent the aftermarket from getting in the engine replacement business.

As far as what Porsche should charge for a known poor design that leads to a significant number of failures, the cost should be $0 to the owner of the car.

Farside

Hi guys I am new to this so please bear with me if this question has already been asked but, considering the above issue I was wondering what the likelihood is that my porsche extended guarantee covers an IMS failure. I don't think it specifically states that it does/doesn't.
Thanks
G

Fred R. C4S

I'm sorry but I don't follow your line of thinking on this. Let's say it costs $100 to manufacture a new engine. Regardless of who rebuilds or remanufactures (and there is a significant difference in the two processes) a failed or worn out engine, the cost is very dependent on how much of the failed engine is reusable or salvageable. The most critical items in the process are the integrity of the block crank and heads. These have the highest value or cost. Let's say they represent 30% of the cost of the engine. If the block has a hole in it, it's worthless, and we need to start our rebuild with a new block with solid integrity. If the crank broke, it has probably rendered the block undalvage able. Cranks that are merely worn can be remanufactures at a reasonable cost. Depending upon the damage to the heads, they can be rebuilt, but if not, new heads will be needed.

This type of analysis of what can be reused "as is" as well as a cost analysis of repair vs replacement cost has to be performed on virtually beery part of the engine. A manufacturer who offers a remanufactures engine with a two year warranty probably has tighter criteria for reuse that a rebuilder who does not have to match the warranty.

There simply is a point where a financial decision can be made of what solid, reusable or rebuild able parts are required in a core to make the final cost of the reman engine viable. I cannot see any circumstances where a block with a hole in it could be accepted.

When you purchase the reman engine from the supplier, do you want an engine with suspect, damaged parts that were reused just to lower the core charge or the rebuild cost?

The core value is as high as it is because that's the value of the returned parts necessary to remanufactures the engine and offer it at as a reasonable alternative to a $100 new engine. If the engine cost less to start with, the core charge would be less. But a 911 engine is a very expensive piece of kit.

How does a high core charge keep the aftermarket out of the business?

RollingArt

I'll take a stab at trying to answer that one.

If Porsche were to only charge say $100 dollars for a core, or you could sell your core to a Porsche engine rebuilder for $1000, who are you going to give your reusable engine core to?

If useable cores were cheap the after market suppliers could be very competitive with Porsche for reman. engines.