Robocop305

I think is more of a software update than mechanical.

JeanLouis33

Maybe, I am no mechanic... but I found the 997 more jerky, and also (relatively of course) slower. And the 991 has these little blips of gas when you downshift (Ferrari-style) which the 997 definitely doesn't. They serve no purpose other than the feel-good factor but when you buy that sort of car... it matters.

Robocop305

Does the blips feel like the ones on the Audi DSG?

JeanLouis33

Sorry, never driven an Audi. I have not driven a F430 either but I have been alongside one on a track day, and it sounded exactly the same.

But I do remember how I grinned from ear to ear, every time I hit the left paddle, to get this little "wow" of gas that sounds brilliant. It does not exist with the 997 PDK, in any mode.

Cut a long story short, I brought the 997/2 PDK back slightly disappointed, yesterday. 20mn were enough to ascertain that PDK1 does not behave as enjoyably as PDK2.

Abby Normal

Improvements to software and clutches made a big difference in transitional smoothness and driveability..

JeanLouis33

Thanks, guys. Ouch! That leaves me with an impossible choice: get a 991S and lose 80bhp // get the 997TT 3.8L with the "old" PDK // wait 2 or 3 years for the 991 Turbo to be in my budget.

Ah, we don't have an easy life...

mattyf

lol FWP

Robocop305

I will get the 997TT. I couldn't wait 2 to 3 years without a P-car.

JeanLouis33

One small detail I did not know about.... in France, we now have a 6000 Euros eco-tax for that car. Even if you buy second hand... when you register it !!!
I am stunned.
I think I might move to plan B > take my car (997 Turbo 3.6L, 2007) to techart in Germany and get stage 1 or even stage 2... just over 600hp !!! for the price of the Eco-tax (stuff the Greens!!)
<< http://www.techart.de/en/techart-sho...09/engine.html >>

1analguy

For a company that markets itself based on "excellence", I would think that Porsche would want to keep the software in PDKs that are already out in the field updated to the latest and greatest whenever possible...but apparently their business model (wringing every last possible dollar/pound/euro/etc. out of their customers) just doesn't allow them to do that.

What I'm getting from this thread, as someone who's shopping 997.2s right now, is that the PDK has additional hidden maintenance costs/procedures (periodic "calibration") that you have to allow for when purchasing a car...in addition to those that are declared in the maintenance schedule. I think I'll be looking at manual-equipped cars only from now on. All I'll have to worry about is whether or not the previous owner abused the clutch, and I can get a round-about indication of that from the DME over-rev report and a test drive...and I'll be able to do all the maintenance (fluid changes) myself.

JeanLouis33

I read you loud and clear ! Problem is that the manual gearbox is, apparently, dead as a dodo. I am (probably "was") looking for a 997TT 3.8L to replace my 997TT 3.6L, and I realise that there is not one car to be found without PDK. And this is only the 997 range.

In 991, it gets much worse... the first 991S are arriving on the used car market here, in France, and the (extremely) few manual gearbox cars are clearly offered for less money, they are the difficult-to-get-rid-off models.

Add to this the fact that the 991 GT3 is sold ONLY in .pdk (albeit a much improved PDK!!) ... and you've got the trend... get a manual, quick, before it becomes extinct.

rodsky

This is way overblown. I have a 997.2 PDK and its great. Owned it from brand new for 4 years. There are no hidden charges/maintenance. I haven't spent a dime. Buy what you prefer to drive. My past 3 911's were manual and I was always concerned that valet parkers (in LA this is a necessity unless you leave the 911 at home) would ruin my clutch - sure enough one did. One side benefit w PDK - tough to do that

Is the 991 PDK better - a little (maybe). But its not like a huge difference IMO. Granted I haven't owned one for years. But I'm v happy with my PDK. One data point for you.

JeanLouis33

I get your point, Rosky. It would just be interesting for you to drive a PDK2 (aka 991) for a few days, and I'd love to have your reactions... see if I got the wrong impression...
Just got my 997TT manual back after service... boy, don't think I'm ready to change...

1analguy

Due to money constraints, I'm looking at 997.2 2S and GTS only, so no problem with finding a manual transmission...at least, not here in the U.S. It seems like roughly one third of the cars here are so equipped, and there doesn't seem to be any difference in price that I can tell, either. I am a firm manual guy myself...I figure if I'm buying a sports car purely for its on-road driving enjoyment (I don't track my cars anymore), why would I buy a car with an automatic transmission...particularly a car known far and wide specifically for its driver involvement (Porsche 911)? I derive great pleasure from shifting for myself; it keeps me more involved with the car. It doesn't matter to me that a PDK shifts faster than I do because I'm never in so much of a hurry that a few tenths of a second will mean anything. Obviously, this is just me, and I understand completely how someone else might prefer a PDK to a manual transmission. I can tell you this, though: if I had no money constraints on me, I'd still buy the nicest 991 available with a manual transmission. I think Porsche is uncharacteristically leaving money on the table by not offering one on the faster 991s. JMO...

And, by the way, your car is definitely a "keeper". It's really beautiful in white...I hope I can find the car that I want in white, as well.

JeanLouis33

Thanks for the nice words! Yes, I love that car to bits!!!! I was just thinking of upgrading to the same, only in 3.8L. and less mileage. However this has now changed... as the difference the Bordeaux Porsche Centre are asking me for the swap is astronomical. And I have more sense than money.
So I'm keeping it. I had it fully tested (compressions, over-revving computer checks... -not sure how you say this in English- the lot) and it is good as new.
So, as I have had it 4 years, and I am itching for some change, I am going to go to Techart in Stuttgart Germany, and for a fraction of the cost of a change of car, get an extra 70bhp 550hp will be in 991 Turbo territory Totally childish, of course... but what the heck, life is short. I'll visit the Porsche Museum there , at the same time... always wanted to see it.

Re. PDK, I share your views entirely... or perhaps I should say "shared", until I had a 991S for three days, last spring. Now, THAT PDK impressed me, a lot. Which is why I started this conversation, by the way. Never say never, my friend... I was the fiercest opponent of the "automatic", exactly the same arguments as yours (and valid they are) but after three days, I took it back thinking "yes, I could get used to this one". It is blindingly fast, and the little exhaust "yaps" in between gears (both upshifting and down shifting) do make your hairs stand on end... trust me.

The 997S is a beauty of a car. I had two in succession. If you can find it in Carrara White (nothing to do with Carrera of course), then go for it. The only "fault" of that generation is a non existant sound. All it needs is a valves exhaust, CarGraphic for example (no shortage of Tuners in your part of the world) and you will have one dream of a car.

Keep in touch and let us know how you get on.
Do you know if I can post photos here, or do I have to be a fully paid member (I just arrived last week...)