PCC

I'm slightly confused. I have a 2009 C2S Cab. However, in 1986 I bought a new 994 Turbo. I was my first Porsche and it was a DD. I was young and beat the hell out of that car. 90k miles when I got rid of it. Never any problems.

I guess my question is .. are the 996 engines that delicate? These cars are made to be driven aren't they?

stab1991

Buy it, drive it, enjoy it. Some cars have problems with their engines especially some early boxsters and 996s.

jhbrennan

I thought your 2009 has the DFI engine - very different than the 996/997 variant.

yemenmocha

996 is ugly, and objectively so. Just ask around...

mjbrox

he got a 2005 C2S with 25k miles. With a CPO warranty

I think i need to go visit him now

gonz911

I have a very bad opinion of the 996 - I had one and the engine went kaput with 38k miles; the interior was cheap and there always seemed to be something going wrong with it.

dan212

humph!

Its a matter of taste. I have had a 997 and a 996. I think the 996 form factor and styling is more attractive.

simsgw

No, the 996 engines are not delicate, but...

Aside from questions of taste, and those are eternal, Porsche went through a phase where the company changed design direction through top-level decisions about the market that turned out to be --- well, if it not wrong, at least unprofitable. The company damn near tanked in other words. A new top boss saved the company and the 996 was the 911 model that came out under his direction. They aren't cheap cars, Porsches never are, but the truth is they had to put a lot of emphasis on reducing manufacturing cost and it shows up here and there. Or so I'm told. Never liked them well enough to be tempted into a test drive. I'm reporting the consensus of Porsche authors deemed expert in the subject.

One aspect of the engine in the 997 may have suffered from that cost and weight reduction campaign. Or it may be a simple engineering error on the production side. Hard to say, but the intermediate shaft bearing was originally made with a thin steel bearing case. In some cars, this corrodes and when it becomes porous the engine oil dilutes the permanent grease inside the bearing case. Eventually, the grease is dilute enough that the bearing fails.

The problem is anecdotally connected with cars not driven often or hard and that is consistent with the root cause being corrosion. Hard driving, at least hard enough to take the lubricants and especially the engine oil up to 200F or so is what drives off the moisture that collects in an engine as it sits. (Same problem in gas tanks of course. Hence the need for products like Stabil for winter storage.) If the water contaminating the oil is not driven off regularly, it forms acid compounds and those lead to corrosion in the engine. We used to take this for granted, but it has become an issue for modern engines that are not simply great lumps of cold iron but alloy confections.

I've never investigated the question thoroughly because I don't have a 997.1 engine (and neither do you), but the alloy and its thickness in that original bearing case seem to be especially sensitive to the corrosion that starts in cars not driven hard often enough. I say "seem to be" because none of us has access to Porsche's internal failure analysis and any of us who did would have signed a non-disclosure agreement first so we're not going to get that data.

Porsche changed that IMS bearing with the potentially porous case and retrofitted any that showed problems coming with various symptoms, but most easily by oil analysis. PCA experts say they've seen no problems with the improved bearings, but of course the internet buzz disagrees. Once a problem reaches legendary status, it gets the blame for all sorts of failures that may be unrelated, up to and including failures associated with high boost levels of aftermarket turbos on an engine designed for natural aspiration.

Basically, the IMS isn't a problem for you and me, and as an engineer it wouldn't worry me if I find a reason to buy a 997 with the earlier engine. I do oil analysis on all my engines any way. Another forum did an informal survey (it can hardly be anything else) and despite the circumstances inviting exaggerated reporting only six percent of respondents reported any sort of problem at all, including no-cost repairs by the factory or precautionary changes in the bearing. Something like 10,000 people had looked into that poll thread last time I checked it so obviously this bogey man is a popular nightmare.

Basically, it's boring advice but if the OP wants a 2005, just make sure to have a pre-purchase inspection by a Porsche expert and insist on a determination that the bearing was replaced with the improved version at some point. The rest of the inspection topics are routine.

They are great cars, just like the Porsches before and after. Just different things to check when you buy a used one.

Gary

rodsky

I have both. My 996 was the last year 40th anniversary. Its far from ugly IMO and its a good car. In terms of performance, it has the X51 package and is as fast as a 997.1S (or so close you cant tell the difference). It has 345HP. My 997.2S is noticeable quicker.

I prefer the looks of the 997.1 and the 997.2 to the 996. I'm no engineer, but from what they tell me, the 996 and the 2005 997.1 are not that different. Have similar RMS/IMS issues (although they arent big issues - read Gary's post above).

I'd stay away from 2005's but would buy 2006+. Or get a 2005 with an upgraded IMS if possible.

utkinpol

I think part of a puzzle here is that 06+ 997 cars start somewhat from 46k price point while 996 cars may get as low as 22-24k.
Should one gamble with '99 or '01 car? I do not know. Some of them do run around still, with no issues. If it gets LN eng. IMS upgrade, chain does not rattle, leak test shows all cylynders in same range, there are no signs of wet fresh bark black oily soot in exhaust - then may be that car will live long enough with no issues.

pissedpuppy

mine wasn't...but then again, I think cabriolets are ugly. any variant.

totally subjective

soverystout

Gary,

You are actually combining 2 issues with the 996 engine. The IMS bearings don't suffer from porosity or corrosion issues.

The bearing is a sealed bearing with permanent grease for the ball bearings. Since the IMS tube shaft was supposed to be an oil free environment, there didn't seem to be an issue. Unfortunately, the shaft seals leak allowing hot oil into the shaft. The seal on the IMS bearing "ain't the best" and the permanent lube can be washed out of the bearing, creating a recipe for dissaster.

No lubrication (or old trapped oil) for a steal bearing causes the ***** to pit and the race to be damaged, and the ball carriers to fail, which can all lead to the IMS bearing failure.

The porosity issue you speak of had to do with early (97-99) engine block castings and nothing to do with the IMS bearing.

Fin Fever

997 compels me, It was love at first sight, and I will never leave her. I could not be happy with a 996, they don't ignite my interest. Mechanically, the cars are very similar. This is a matter of taste, some guys love the 996. If your friend doesn't know what he wants, he should wait until he does. To rush into it would be akin to getting married to just any girl; it is worth waiting for "the one".

DreamCarrera

Ugly!?!? WOW, this is the dumbest thing I have read on RL in a while, and that is saying something.

If you said the GT-R is ugly that’s one thing, but for a 997 owner, let alone a Porsche enthusiast, to say the 996 is “ugly” is ridiculous. You certainly may prefer the 997 over the 996 but they are far too similar to say that one is ugly and the other a gem.

Considering most people(general public) could not tell the difference between a 996 and 997 parked next to each other, what does your comment say about your 997?

utkinpol

i`ve heard once a comment that any 911 car resembles an ugly toad.