Gliding_Serpent

Hello all,

I am new here, so this is a bit of an introductory thread. I am a long time Porsche fan, not yet owner. To confirm my pedigree/sickness, I attached artwork I made about 25 years ago at age 6 or so (I was obviously raised well, because I had great taste back then). I am currently planning to buy a used Porsche in the next few years. I suppose I COULD buy one now, but I am financially conservative (Yes, I did just manage to write that with a straight face as I discuss buying a Porsche.).

Although I have browsed these forums on occasion in the past, I joined up recently to be a bit more active in my searches. At the moment I am at the fun stage of "what do I want?" which seems to change on a weekly basis (translation: "everything!")

What I do know is that I want:
A) RWD
B) manual
C) coupe
D) engine in the boot
E) round headlights (sorry 996)
F) natural aspiration

The above things I will not compromise on (yup... even the rwd).

I am debating the following:
1) air cooled 70's Porsche 911S (possibly modded to be RS like) if the right one came along
2) the 964 vs 993 c2 (RS if the right one came along)
and after the 991's come out...
3) a 997 c2 or c2s (possibly with aerocup kit)
4) a 997.1 GT3 or RS (probably not practical... but I probably could not resist)
7) I still like duck-tails, and the Sport Classic look is to die for.

Right now my brain says 993 c2 vs 997 c2s, but there is always a place in my heart for the classic 911. If only I had the money, time, and garage space, I would get all.

I would very much appreciate advice on good books/websites/forum discussions on the 997 (or models listed above if you are familiar), or advice on buying/owning one (the kind of stuff they don't tell you in books). I have some great primer resources already including Jackel's racetrack (a great 993 DIY blog... P.S. the DIY sections here are great!), and the GT Porsche Mag buyers guides. I figured I would start here, but I will migrate to the air-cooled sections of the Forum in time.

Ownership costs are always of interest to me, and something that I suspect is like sex: we are never truly honest about it when discussing it in a public forum. I am also from Canada, so experiences with car importation would be appreciated.

Overall, I look forward to just chatting, contributing now and then, and eventually becoming an "official" member.

Edgy01

As a long time Porsche owner (my Porsche attraction started when I was about 18--and bought my first at 19), I think that you're going to get a lot more Porsche for the money with a 997, than a 993. Here's the facts--993s are artificially higher due to some notion that the 993 is more of a 'collector' car due to less of them being made. However, one reality of a Porsche that must be faced straight on is maintenance costs.

Porsches are today, much less expensive to maintain than ever before. The service intervals are longer, and less things require service. The 993 is, frankly, a 13-14 year old car, at best. That's usually the place where the expensive stuff starts to break on a car. As such, you must budget accordingly, if buying a 993. However, many sellers of 993s will not factor in your expenses of about $5000 to get it up to speed. They will demand every cent they can extract from you.

On the other hand, there are many slightly used 997s out there that are much less of a maintenance chore.

I've had my share of air-cooled, oil-cooled, and coolant-cooled Porsches over the decades. I don't know where you live, but between you and I, if I am traveling across the USA in a Porsche and want to turn the air conditioning on, I want cold air to make the trip more comfortable. The older air-coolded cars are not truly ducted for such air movement nor is the air going to be cold enough by modern standards. Sure, they're going to tell you that a true sports car doesn't need a/c. However, when you're in stop and go traffic on the Eden's Expressway in late August, let's talk about that again!

Please go visit the 911, 964, and 993 forums and lurk there, and ask a similar question--just to get a fair and balanced answer.

Best of luck, John.

Gliding_Serpent

thanks for the reply. The 997 has been on the top of my list for some of the reasons you mention (mainly maintenance costs at the onset, but power to weight ratio and looks help too). That being said, any 997 will need the same work as a 993 eventually... the 993 just has less value depreciation in it's future for the same reasons that it's price has held so well. But then this matters little to me, as I don't plan on selling once I buy.

One of the appeals of the older 60-70's Porsche models is their simplicity and ease of fixing. That being said, I am sure old parts are not getting any more common or cheap, and the 993 is hardly old, or "simple" in my books.

Part of me wants a classic 70's porsche and a 997. The other part says I should split the difference and just focus on one 993 (a balance of both worlds).

I think some test drives will be key, as "better" is often in how a car makes you feel.

p.s. I am in the east coast of Canada, so good AC is nice, but only needed 2-3 months a year (less this year it seems). The downside is that local pickings are slim for my tastes.

RazrPorsche

Hi John. I really like the artwork! We're the same age, so I can fully understand what it's like to be afflicted with the Porsche bug at a young age. I had all the P-car Hotwheels & Matchbox cars, Testors plastic model kits, posters on my wall, etc. Nobody in my family had a Porsche, but when I first saw one and got to ride in one as a kid (my dad's boss had a 928), that was it....Porsche forever.

I've had a 944 for awhile because that was always my favorite '80's Porsche as a kid. But throughout the years, I always had a goal to get a 911 and use it as a daily driver. 13 years of school and delaying gratification, I finally made my dream a reality. I will say it's incredible and I wouldn't let another day pass without doing it.

I, too, like 911's of all ages and styles. Late 80's 3.2's, 964's, 993's, 997's (and I have to admit I like the 996 C4S). When it came to picking one, I had to go with a 997 C2S. It's the best of all worlds, looks good w/ classic headlight shape, interior is excellent, more comfortable, more recent technology & amenities. It will last me a long time. It's also powerful & efficient. I also don't have to worry as much about it breaking down or things going wrong because it's not greater than 10 years old, or even 5 for that matter.

I can't always say that about my 944 simply because it's 25 years old, things are old & worn. The AC works, but nothing like a newer car....and the old 911's AC's, forget it!

My advice would be to go for a 997. It will be a great first 911 and will be new enough with all the technology to keep you happy for 5+ years or more. We're young, there will always be time to get a "classic" 911 from way back in the 1990's. Haha....

Good Luck!

okbarnett

I agree with the advancements in technology and usability . I wouldnt want to drive around in a 10yr or older car, it just wouldnt be as enjoyable as it could be

Gliding_Serpent

Driving around in my old man's 73 BMW 2002Tii sold me on the charms of an older car. You don't need to go fast to have tons of fun. I like raw and involved driving (though not spine rattling). The reality is that most power of a modern (or 90's 911) will be lost in North America (though I am within 2 hrs of a track). I do 100% agree that a 997 would be a much easier car to live with day to day.

Now if I could only get him to sell me the 73, a new Porsche would be a much easier decision to make.

Gliding_Serpent

We are not so different indeed... including the extra years of school (after high school that is... I joke that I was in school since age 5).

Your route, 944 aside, is the one I will probably plan to take (C2S than "classic" Porsche later). Still, I have been on a 993 kick of late... the nostalgia part of me yearns for air cooled, even if the 997 is mechanically and technologically superior.

You know the years of hard work are paying off when your hardest decision is 993 vs 997.

p.s. nice C2S... your color/interior combo is what I am ideally looking for (or meteor grey for my less extroverted days)

RazrPorsche

My comments about newer technology & amenities has nothing to do with speed or "needing to go fast". I think you misinterpreted that (maybe?). If so, that's not what I meant, so sorry if it came off that way. I have lots of fun driving a 25 year old 944 and I drive my 911 UNDER the speed limit. I will also never drive on a track.

As okbarnett said, it may not be as enjoyable day-in and day-out driving an old car when you could have something newer and more reliable for daily driving. Then, perhaps pick up a nice older one for fun a bit later while still having your more useable car for daily use. I have 2 Porsches in the garage, one old & one newer so I understand your feelings....

I guess it depends on what you want to use it for and yes, the test drive will certainly tell you a lot by how you feel inside while driving it....my heart raced when I drove my '07 C2S and I was just going 25mph. Haha.

Again, best of luck with the decision! It's one of the best parts of the process.

RazrPorsche

I use that same joke all the time...because it's true! Although really I'll be a life-long learner in my profession....so everyday is a school day, as they say.

I think you edited your posts the same time I was writing my last one, so I'll say thanks for the compliments on my car! I like a brown interior. I was actually looking for Meteor Gray only, but when I saw and drove the Guards Red, it was over. There's something special about it to me that you feel but can't explain. If you would have asked me 6 months ago about buying a red car, I would have said 100% no way that's going to happen!

I would love to own a 993 and a 3.2 someday too...aircooled is special. There is something unique & charming about driving an older car. I feel like I'm "taking care of" my 25 y.o. 944 and that's fun. But I'll always have a newer version for everyday driving.

yemenmocha

+1 to Dan's comments above.

Also, because it comes up so often in threads with people who are about to afford or almost can afford buying a Porsche, keep in mind the costs of ownership - rear tires are $400 each, and you'll need them every 5-10k miles, for example. OEM windshield replacement is almost $1k, etc.

Edgy01

One issue that I failed to mention is a self-evaluation of your mechanical skills.

If you're reasonably handy, and have the tools (not that many are truly needed for a 911) then you can certainly take on the ownership of a 1980s era 911. Those are fine automobiles, quite easy to maintain, and now that I know you're in Canada, you're never going to have to work about coolant! I owned a couple of 911s in the 1970s and 1980s and found then to be some of the nicest cars around. Many find the 1984-1989 3.2 liter 911 Carreras to be ideal. They are quite simple to work on.

Hella-Buggin'

I love the old Air-Cooled 911's. I grew up driving hopped up VW's so it's a logical leap. I was looking at getting a 993 but when all was said and done... expected maintenance costs coupled with modern comforts & safety features brought me to the 997 with 2 years of CPO warranty. Now, I would still love to have an Air-Cooled 911, but not as my only 911.

Gliding_Serpent

I think we swore a similar oath.

Like you my brain says Meteor grey, my heart says guards red.

Gliding_Serpent

One goal is to get a better idea of the cost of ownership... but I think it is something that is under-reported in public. I caught wind of a $20,000 scheduled major checkup for the GT3 RS.

Other than some occasional price hints here and there, I find only the DIY'ers communicate their costs (because they are much lower). My black box of cost is the service fees. Do Porsche owners really get taken to the bank every time someone opens the hood?

I always just assumed worse case scenario with costs... "If you have to ask..."

Gliding_Serpent

I am handy with fixing things with my hands and solving problems, but my car experience is limited. My goal however is to learn... part of the fun of the hobby for me. Play with the old Porsche, pay someone to keep the new one a daily user.