IMS failure for your 997 car, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1, .2, m96, m97, failure mode)
 

Many have been asking to understand how many of the 997 cars have had IMS (intermediate shaft) failures. Although the people on this board are not necessarilly a random sampling of 997 owners I would like to see a poll to get a better sense of it.

• Please vote only once for each 997 you own (yes or no).. you can post multiple times but only vote once
• Please include details of your car and engine if it failed via IMS (m96 or M97) and when.
• Please let us know if there were any mitigating factors (low oil, overheat, etc) that might've led to the failure
• Please post only about IMS failures, this is not about RMS failures
• Please post only for your car, no heresay or posting for a friend who doesn't frequent the board
• Please post what was done to rectify the failure if your car failed (CPO engine, engine out of pocket, used engine, sold, insurance fire, pushed it into a river etc)

Hopefully this will help owners and soon-to-be owners get a sense of how frequently this occurs.

*Thanks*

2009 - 997.2 C2S - NO failure

2006 - 997.1 C4S - NO failure

2008 C2S - No failure

2007 C2 43K miles and No failure.

05 C2 30k miles...no failure...so far

08 997 C2S 12K miles - no issues

06 C2S, m97 motor, no problemo!

Great idea for a thread rich! If unscientific, still quite interesting and will give some idea of the range of this problem.





Phil

05 C2S Cab, 56k miles. No issues

05 C2 So far so good, 10K miles, uses no oil.

-06 C4S, 43,000 miles, no issues.

negative. 36k so far, plenty of track too.

2007 C4S - 12K miles - No IMS Failure.

'05 C2S, 26kmi no IMS failure

2006 Carrera S, 14k, no issues.

'05 C2, 32K miles, no IMS failure. Had to have the clutch done at 30K (previous owner must have really abused it...I bought it with 21K and the pedal was always much too stiff, mechanic said it had much too much wear for the mileage) so I had them put in the LN retrofit. Mechanic showed me the original bearing and said it was perfect, took the seal off and showed me the grease was intact and clean.

2006 C2S 13k miles, no problems

btw guys, this is a 997.1 issue you 997.2 guys are in the clear

dr

2006 C2, 20K miles no problems.

2006 C2, 35k miles no problems (touch wood)

2006 C2S, previously owned....33k miles no problems but the current owner is having "issues".... :(

2006 C2S 42K miles - No issues

2005 C2, 78,000 miles, only a water pump to date.

2008 C2S, no problems.

'06 C2S 42K miles. No problem so far. Knock on wood!

Bought 2005 C2 CPO'ed in 09..with 36K miles...IMS went 300 miles into ownership.

New engine installed by dealer.

Good for you..... especially since you don't have an Internediate Shaft (IMS) in your car.

35,000 miles number 6 cylinder bore failure.

2005 C2 with 40,000 miles.

Replaced the IMS bearing with an LN Engineering retrofit last week. The original bearing was in fine condition.

2007 C2S Cab 16k no issues. Formerly owned 06 C2 cab 43k no issues.

2006 Cayman S, IMS failure at 46K miles, fixed via CPO, then I sold it.

oops, wrong forum. :)

So what's the gist of what LN Engineering's retrofit does?

57,000 miles and so far so good. This pool, however, doesn't account for the driving style of the various owners. It would be very difficult to quantify that stuff to reach any reasonable conclusions.

08 997.1 C2S 46K miles - no IMS but RMS replaced @ 45K miles.

It's a more robust version of the factory part - uses special hardened bearings manufactured with a process that was not available back in the day. Also beefed up nuts, bolts , etc.

05 C2S. No IMS failure.
Thrust washer failed at 36,000.
Destroyed engine.
Porsche replaced engine under CPO.

So, the poll on htis site so far is about 7% failure. I'm sure Porsche has data as to what the risk of failure is for a car with a given build date. Lemme guess - not published?

I think we probably need more data points... there are a lot more cars on the board than this. Also I suspect that 7% (or whatever number this settles to) is really just a starting point. As Edgy says above, driving style and other mitigating circumstances could drive the failure rate up or down. Also I'm sure some cars are more prone to failure. All these factors mean that this is far from a scientific test.

I have noticed that everyone who wrote in with a failure has yet to write in the details of the car and the circumstances etc. I'd love to see that information to come in so we can get a sense of how these failures actually happen.

Any idea what sort of driving style would push those engines with a higher chance of failure over the cliff?

garage queens that are driven 5 miles a week at 1500 rpm around town on sundays for starters.

As someone who does a lot of statistics for a living, I would very much dissuade you from making sweeping generalizations from this data. Your sampling is very skewed towards people with the problem (more likely to answer) as well as not having accountability (only 1 real person who had the IMS fail has posted).
Also, you have a tiny dataset without any ability to get decent margin of error.

My personal estimate is that it is well below 1%, even for 2005 owners and is highly correlated to driving style and frequency like Edgy mentioned.

2009 997.2 C4S - No failure

2007 997.1 C4S w/ 33K Miles - No Failure

You don't work for Paul Ryan then! ;)

of the 5 users that reported failures:

1 was not a 997- shouldn't count
2 users have been on the board for a long time (years) and they do own 997s
2 users have been on the board a long time (years) and no notes on thier profile as to which car they own

I think for the time being we can assume that there are at least 4 legit failures on this board since there is no compelling reason to lie for those long time members.

again, this isn't a very scientific survey of course (I also conduct consumer research as part of my job and this test would never fly as anything but anecdotal). I'm interested to hear even anecdotal evidence.

`06 C2S w/27k miles and no issues.


Update: 09/05 build; 30,257 miles

997 2005 C2, 45K miles, no IMS problem, no other engine issues

2007 C2, 17,000, no ims failure to date

Who said yes?

Also, I'd prefer to see a poll for only 2006-2008 owners. And of course it is super non-scientific sampling blah blah etc.

if you click on the numbers in the poll (currently 5) you can see thier profiles and the cars they drive (and the year if they entered it).

2005 C2 with 37k, daily driver. No issues at all.

No one else? 5 legit 997s with IMS so far.

Okay, but none of them have actually posted in this thread, and I don't recall seeing them post about it before. Seems odd, if you were a long-time rennlist poster and your IMS blew wouldn't you post about it?

Hey guys who said "yes" , are you out there? What happened?

wrong and wrong...

I've sure I posted about it...here and in 6speed....

Rich-thanks for doing this. I always wanted to see some data around the failure rate. I'll take 94%. It proves how great these cars are.

Clicking on names in result table I'm not seeing any info on their profiles? Am I doing s.t. wrong? Looking for prod yr/milage. Tx

here's the info on the failures available so far:

2005 997 Carrera S
997 year?
2006 C2S
997 year?
Carrera cab year?

it would be great to hear any detailed info from anyone who's had an IMS failure (year, car, circumstances).

Thanks

05 C2S. 16.1K miles. Always a slight concern but no issues yet.
Jim

Ah okay, glad you clarified. I found one of your threads :

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ne-coming.html

Who had a failure in a 06?






Phil

It was a member called "Charlie C". But I also noticed that he owns an '04 Boxster. I'd like to hear from Charlie to confirm if it was indeed his '06 997 or his '04 Boxster.

There was another member who reported on his Cayman's IMS failure in this poll. While the poll implies 997, the questions asks "IMS failure on your car?" - which some may interpret as any car, as did the Cayman owner.

That 2006 C2S should be stricken from the list. After doing a search, I found that "Charlie C", the owner in the poll who indicated an IMS faliure, was reporting on his '04 Boxster it seems, not his '06 C2S.

See this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...e-failure.html
And this one:
https://rennlist.com/forums/8452153-post29.html

So there are at least 2 ims failures reported that shouldn't be there. That would put us at under 4% failure rate, and I don't think we have any post 05 failures.

This is good news for 06-08 owners. Not to shabby for 05 owners either.





Phil

OK, so four confirmed failures on 997s so far. I'd love to know the years and details on these if anyone voted yes.

-2005 997 Carrera S
-997 year?
-997 year?
-997 cab year?

Anyone else has experienced a first-hand IMS failure in a 997? please participate and let us know your year and engine.

Thanks

05 C2, 70K miles, no issues, still under CPO though

2006 C2S, 22k, NO issues

06 ( early) C2S 25 K Ok

2007 C4 cab, 10,000 miles. No IMS problems, but RMS leak fixed under CPO at 4,000 miles.

I voted but it was for my previous car 2006 C2S

We currently own an '06 C2S and an '08 C4S. No IMS or RMS issue with either.

It's looking like IMS is a non-issue at this point. :corn:

2007 997 8000 miles
No failure.

Wish I could say that it was a non-issue...

38,000 miles and mine failed. I'm currently bickering with PCNA about covering the cost of the reman engine. They say "two years out of warranty--not our problem". I say, it's only 2k beyond the typical mileage warranty limit, and it's a known problem that an owner cannot prevent through good maintenance--PCNA should stand behind their product.

No early indications. I was using Mobile 1 and changing it at about 4k intervals. No extreme metal deposits in the filters and no visible plastic from the bearing seals.

I haven't tracked the car. A Duratec scan showed it had never been in rev ranges 5 or 6 and not much time in "4". I typically "cruised" in the2-3k RPM range, so I wasn't exactly "idling" around in it.

As it began to fail, it sounded like a random "click". I rushed home (it wasn't far, luckily) and as it grew worse I found that if I kept the revsup, the clatter would stop altogether. I shut it off in my garage and it suddenly dumped 6 quarts of Mobile 1 on my floor (hadn't dripped up my driveway at all). After I took oft the dealer, they started it. It started and ran fine, and then they told me that it became "obvious".

I love the car. It's my third Porsche. But I'm disgusted with PCNA.

Slideshow- thanks for chiming in. what year was the car? Also.. are you absolutely certain that you need a new engine? Or can they just replace the IMS? do you have any pics?

Hope it works out for you. What year is your car?

dr

sorry to read, that really sux.
____________________________________________________


2006 4S, no issues

Please keep us posted on how it turns out.

Hasn't this issue been eliminated w/ the latest gen (997.2) model?

My father's friend had an IMS failure. It was an 03' turbo, w/ only 28k on the clock! Owned it since new. It happened during the 6th year of ownership. He actually wrote Porsche (in German) hoping they would cover the repair costs and they instead offered him $15k off his next purchase. He told them to shove it! lol

'05, 58K miles, no problems

No IMS issues _ 2005 Boxster with 52K miles and 2006 997 with 20K miles on the clock

2005,IMS failed @ 40,000. Purchased @ 28,000 miles. Started car and heard the death rattle. Local indie repaired engine with new L&N for $ 7500 Car runs great but now having problem with mis-fires @ low rpm. Fuel injectors due to ethanol ? This is my 1st 911.Blast to drive but not impressed with quality.

05 C2S with 51,000 on the clock. No problems.

Pulled the motor last year (about 48,000 miles) to do the LN Engineering upgrade as a preventative measure, but discovered that mine was a late enough model in 05 to have the upgraded IMS from the factory. Replaced the RMS due to a bit of a weep at the time. Clutch was A-OK.

Sorry all, my car is a 2005 (fairly early production... I'll revisit the production month and update this). The dealership replaced the engine already. Whether or not PCNA was going to be responsible, it had to be fixed, so I had it done.

I'm currently moving from Georgia to SoCal, so things are a bit chaotic, but I plan to readdress this with PCNA. If anyone has any advice for dealing with them, it'd be greatly appreciated.

I'd be most interested to hear from anyone who was out of their basic warranty period and still had PCNA provide a replacement engine free of charge. I'm under the impression that there are a few of you here and from RennTech.

2007 C2. No IMS failure.

Bump. I believe we've got about 7 IMS failures on record as some of the "yesses" are from other models etc.

2007 C2, 50,000 miles, NO IMS failure. (was inspected a few weeks ago and found to be in perfect shape)

Many blown engines here, there´s a dedicate blog to it.

http://www.total911.com/news/466/

J.Seven

Reiterating the orgininal intent of this post so newcomers see the purpose of the poll without going to page 1

________________________________________________________________


Many have been asking to understand how many of the 997 cars have had IMS (intermediate shaft) failures. Although the people on this board are not necessarilly a random sampling of 997 owners I would like to see a poll to get a better sense of it.

• Please vote only once for each 997 you own (yes or no).. you can post multiple times but only vote once
• Please include details of your car and engine if it failed via IMS (m96 or M97) and when.
• Please let us know if there were any mitigating factors (low oil, overheat, etc) that might've led to the failure
• Please post only about IMS failures, this is not about RMS failures etc.
• Please post only for your car, no heresay or posting for a friend who doesn't frequent the board
• Please post what was done to rectify the failure if your car failed (CPO engine, engineout of pocket, used engine, sold, insurance fire, pushed it into a river etc)

Hopefully this will help owners and soon-to-be owners get a sense of how frequently this occurs.

Extrapolating fail vs non fail numbers from the poll taken in response to this Renn thread it would seem that a blog dedicated to those engines that did not blow would be much much longer. I did look at the Total thing a while back. It seems to reflect a trend in the early 05 motors that is troublesome. If I had such a motor I would be looking for an opportunity to replace the bearing for the sake of my peace of mind. While the percentage of failures is low it must be a devastating experience. Fwiw I did own an E46 M3 during the time of the main bearing replacement/recall. I never learned what the failure rate was but it was a class act on BMW's part.

76k miles on my 2007 997.1 C2S and still no problems with IMS or RMS. Still uses only about 1 quart of oil between oil changes (5k miles). Still drives like a dream. Still love it. Know I should sell it, but can't quite bring myself to list it anywhere. Mine seems to be bulletproof.

Why should you sell it?

2006 c2, m96 engine, 53K miles, so far no issues.

2006 997 Carrera S. No problems. Joy to own so far............. 53K

2006 C2s, nothing yet @ 35K

2005 C2S 34k miles, no issues

2007 C2 with 15k miles. No issues of any kind.

2007 C2, 22,000 miles, no problems

2005 997S @ 23K miles - No IMS problems :thumbup:

Bump

Many have been asking to understand how many of the 997 cars have had IMS (intermediate shaft) failures. Although the people on this board are not necessarilly a random sampling of 997 owners I would like to see a poll to get a better sense of it.

• Please vote only once for each 997 you own (yes or no).. you can post multiple times but only vote once
• Please include details of your car and engine if it failed via IMS (m96 or M97) and when.
• Please let us know if there were any mitigating factors (low oil, overheat, etc) , car sat for months, high revs, low revs, that might've led to the failure
• Please post only about IMS failures, this is not about RMS failures
• Please post only for your car, no heresay or posting for a friend who doesn't frequent the board
• Please post what was done to rectify the failure if your car failed (CPO engine, engine out of pocket, used engine, sold, insurance fire, pushed it into a river etc

)

Hopefully this will help owners and soon-to-be owners get a sense of how frequently this occurs.

issue
 

IMS and RMS fixed under warranty/CPO at about 30K miles, later one less then 6 months later and 5K miles one failed again and out of warranty by a few months, dealer fixed issue again but had to get special approval.

2008 997.1 C2S, 13,500 miles, no failure.

Porsche needs a public class action suit.

2005 C2 tip 67K miles no issues.

Not to give this issue any less weight but it's common to find these issue really blowing up on message boards.

I also own a ducati which has a plastic tank (most modern bikes have plastic tanks) and the design of this is like a saddle over the motorycle frame. It turns out that for whatever reason (plastic changing over time, alcohol fuel) that many of the tanks are spreading and coming off the mounts on the frame. Here's a poll that shows that it's happening on 60% of ducatis:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport...ms-yes-no.html

there was a class action lawsuit for this which was "won" by the lawyers. Owners of these bikes get a mounting kit if they ask for it (shown to only be a temporary fix). The Lawyers get 850k. And the owners who submitted their bikes for inspection as a part of the suit get 2k apiece. There were very few of those.

You also find similar issues with BMWs on their message boards.

My point is that we probably shouldn't be holding our breath that a class action lawsuit will garner real results. I really believe that manufacturers should design products that work for a reasonable amount of time even when subjected to reasonable abuse. I don't think Porsche is fulfilling that commitment here. I also don't think that it's as bad an offense as you see in other cases. It's terrible if it happens to your car but in terms of percentage it's not as bad as other vehicles. That doesn't absolve porsche but I think that it makes it less likely that anything will come of a lawsuit etc.

2008 C2S - 22,000 miles -
Daily Driver for me
no issues of any kind

Previous owner(fellow rennlister) used at DD as well(would need confirmation)
Tracked a few times (previous owner)
no overrevs past range 1

2005 S. 90,000 daily driver miles. No problems.

Good luck with that.

05 c2 no issues at 21k
Also we have a 01 boxster no issues at 38k

I'm seriously thinking of Changing to the LN IMS in the 997 and selling the boxster before it self destructs.

2005 Boxster (987) - 45k miles - No IMS Issue (RMS leak fixed but no IMS). Knock wood.

06 C4 45k, no issues

07 997 C2S, daily driver, no track time, 1 quart oil per 3K miles, ~75,000 miles IMS failure, engine rattle prior to failure. Traded car in for 2010 997 GTS.

^^^^and here I thought that I was safe because of high(er) milage..........

06 997 S
33K Miles
No problems

These discussions and related articles in Excellence suggest to me that I need to enjoy my Porsche more often before the engine craters. They also have got me thinking about what I'm going to do when my extended warranty expires in 2013. While the odds of failure appear low, footing the bill for an engine replacement on what would then be a 7+ year old car would suck.

Never underestimate the power of denial.

Hmmm, this is the first time I've seen an '07 with an IMS failure documented. It's almost always been the '05, on rare occasions the '06, and now this '07.

2008 C2S w/ 6K miles as of Oct 2011 - NO IMS issues to date

Higher mileage poll needed
 

I've noticed that most of the cars in the poll stats have very little miles on them. Maybe we should have poll of over 60,000 miles to get a more accurate idea of failure rates? LN Engineering seems to recommend that their IMS replacement bearing needs to still be changed out ever 50,000 miles.

06 C2S with 38k miles, no IMS failure. I did have IMS leak that was fixed under warranty last year

09/05 C2S build. 25k miles. Had the RMS replaced and the IMS flange packed (=??). No problems. Runs like a dream. It's a beautiful machine.

2005 IMS failure in 2008 with 16,500 miles (first owner). Warranty replacement with 2008 rebuilt engine. Now 20000 miles. I am third owner.

early '05 c2s, 22k, no issues with car at all, maintenance has cost less than my f150 (except the cost of tires)

for what it is worth, local dealer has only replaced 1 engine since 2005 and that was questionable circumstance (abuse)

this particular car has special meaning for me (my wife bought it for me) though this does concern me enough to at least be thinking of trading (or is it rationalization?)

I have an '05 C2S Launch Edition with PCCBs, so this is an early release (9/04). I bought the car just over year ago with 41K miles, clean PPI with no warranty from a private party. If anything will go wrong with this 'year to avoid' model, then I suppose it will. However, it has been great with the exception of the battery cable, AC vents clip, exhaust tip and heater/fan knob which were addressed under warranty as expected - previous to my purchase. I purchased the car knowing of the potential 'IMS' issues. If the engine goes, it goes. I haven't pulled the trigger on an LNE IMS upgrade (assuming my engine qualifies for the upgrade). Even so, I'm not sure I would upgrade. If the engine goes, then I just replace it with a new one albeit with a few internal goodies - NA of course.

'06 Carrera S, some moderate tracking, 58K, has had zero mechanical issues along the way.

07 Carrera S 15K perfect

For the record
 

I have a 2005 C2S with VIN number WP0AB29925S742410

I am having my clutch replaced and had asked to install the LNE retrofit bearing. I was just told that my car has the 2006 style bearing and they recommend not splitting the case to do the bearing. Based on the lack of failures on 2006 and later I have to agree. It would be interesting if we could gather data and narrow down when the changeover happened.

On another note my clutch failed due to the pressure plate fingers on one side bent back causing the clutch to only engage one side of the flywheel.

I listed the issue in another thread too, but the '06 RMS & IMS both were found to be leaking during the annual service mid October at 24k miles.

Dealer replaced RMS and IMS seal cap and offered to split the cost with me. I thought it was fair.

This might be more meaningful if it isolated the reported 05 failures and computed reported failure rates separately for 05's and 06-08 cars. This would highlight what we already know: 05's have a significant issue. They also have for the most part a easily (relatively) replaceable bearing. Sorry to state the obvious but there have been a # of posts from 05 owners that don't seem too sure what to think about this.

the original post asks for which year you drive when you claim failure. Not everyone has been doing that but if you look back at all the people who claimed failure in this posting it's something like 65 or 70% 2005 failures. Surprisingly there ARE a few 06-on failures.

We can assume most 05s are m95 engines and most 06s are m97 engines but that's not always the case. A few late 05s got M97 engines and a few cars that are 06-on actually might be 05 cars that were sold for the first time to a customer in 06 getting 06 on the title.

Many have been asking to understand how many of the 997 cars have had IMS (intermediate shaft) failures. Please post only IMS failures (not IMS seal failures or RMS seal failures, these are not catastrophic). Although the people on this board are not necessarilly a random sampling of 997 owners I would like to see a poll to get a better sense of it.

Please vote only once for each 997 you own (yes or no).. you can post multiple times but only vote once
Please include details of your car and engine if it failed via IMS (m96 or M97) and when.
Please let us know if there were any mitigating factors (low oil, overheat, etc) that might've led to the failure
Please post only about IMS failures, this is not about RMS failures or IMS seal failures.
Please post only for your car, no heresay or posting for a friend who doesn't frequent the board
Please post what was done to rectify the failure if your car failed (CPO engine, engine out of pocket, used engine, sold, insurance fire, pushed it into a river etc)
Hopefully this will help owners and soon-to-be owners get a sense of how frequently this occurs.

*Thanks*

i just voted so i could see the results.

mod. please strike out my yes vote. 997 guys, please accept my appologies for voting.

1 vote removed

No problems of either sort. Or any other sort for that matter. 2009 C2S with 29,500 miles. I wasn't even tempted to violate that last stricture because the only acquaintance with a failure ascribed to IMS was running a 2005 with aftermarket forced induction. And from his stories at least, he liked to use all that extra power, so his experience would be what we call a "wild point" in formal statistics.

Gary

My CPOe:biggulp:d '07 S with 41K had weeping RMS replaced and they went ahead and replaced IMS as well under warranty. Stated IMS was fine, but dealer states they replace due to the easy access. No other issues but O2 sensor which failed 6 months ago. Dealer was happy to report 80% life left on clutch. Glad no abuse from previous owners, got her with 22K almost 2 years ago.
:biggulp:

Are you saying that you think a leftover 2005 that is sold in 2006 is sold as a 2006?

Ok. now, I don't get this. To replace the IMS in an 07 you have to split the engine cases. The bearing is larger than the hole in the case. Easy access this is not. A MAJOR undertaking not to be done just because you are fixing an rms leak. Either the dealer was blowing smoke up your a$$ or there is a misunderstanding. Either way enjoy your great car. '07's very rarely have ims problems. I would find a different dealer for service though unless you enjoy being lied to.

Don't think so. Late manufacture 05's can have the updated bearing. You really have to look to be sure.

I just took time to read the answers in detail and realize we owners of 997.2 models had been asked to not vote, since we don't have an intermediate shaft. Should have realized that for myself. Sorry, folks.

Speaking as a professional, I have to say first that I agree with the comments from WinkingChef back in April that our venue and the procedure both skew the poll heavily toward exaggerating the problem.

Since that is the case, the results say the notions about a class-action lawsuit are so much froth. Understandable froth, if it's forming around the mouth of an owner whose engine has failed, but still foam with no substance. With no statistical support for a negative result, we nevertheless have pretty good results in Porsche's favor. Consider:

1. The number of 997.2 owners who voted when they should not, like myself, looks pretty low. I don't feel like re-reading everything to do a tally, but it was surely less than thirty of us. That leaves about 200 owners of the 997.1 that have had no problem with their IMS.
   
2. The number of people who reported an actual failure within the poll's intent was quite low. Under ten it seemed, though the 'yes' tally is higher because of false reporting in the other direction. (That is, non-IMS failures.) Even using a method that skews the result badly, the problem is reported for less than five percent of cars we owners consider to be "at risk." Which suggests we're wrong, except in the rather useless sense that men are "at risk" of prostate cancer and women are not. Clearly, the IMS bearing cannot fail if you don't have an IMS, but we needed no poll to tell us that. You can avoid all risk of engine problems if you simply stick to a soapbox racer.
   
3. I didn't see my acquaintance's name here (he who blamed the IMS for a modified engine failing that already had lived a lot longer than would have been my personal expectation). But I did notice at least one that denied abuse in terms that actually admitted abuse. Like the case of an engine with aftermarket induction, Porsche would be justified in refusing any warranty claim for the direct power path of an engine with the DME print-out that particular yes-voting owner reported. (He said: "Nothing in ranges five or six, and not much in four" -- which is a self-admission of serious abuse. Revealing, though not to be confused with a serious admission of self-abuse.:biggulp:)
   
4. That case, and my acquaintance as well, were cars well past the time limits on the warranty in any case. As we'll see below, for technical reasons this problem is more likely in cars with more time and fewer miles, so this is relevant. For all owners with cars within warranty, as far as I noticed, they report having had the dealer replace the IMS bearing in early-manufacture cars. And all the cars in warranty that failed first had their engine replaced by Porsche.

Bearings fail. Since the invention of the engine, load-bearing surfaces have been a critical and difficult design issue. I'm an aerospace engineer, not automotive, so I don't have numbers at the top of my head for this, but one of the two biggest factors in picking a red line has got to be bearing stress. (Valves are the other of course.) So manufacturers are justified in declining warranty claims on engine regularly operated above redline or with aftermarket changes that intentionally raise the bearing pressures to the same level at slower rotation levels. (In case, it isn't obvious, the whole point of forced induction is to raise the pressures inside the cylinders. That's where the additional torque arises. And cylinder pressures translate to bearing pressures. That's one of many reasons you have to lower the effective redline if you add forced induction to an engine.)

For those reasons, I'd expect to see a group of avid enthusiasts like us report one or two instances of bearing failure somewhere in the engine out of every hundred owners. Now as for the bearings supporting the intermediate shaft, let's consider that further.

From the article in Excellence magazine, the problem with the '05's as shipped was traced to some of the suppliers... (Or possibly all? I don't remember offhand. I read the article out of vague interest since I don't own a dot one.) Anyway, whether briefly universal or affecting only part of the manufacturing line, the IMS bearings in those early 997.1 cars used a bearing shell that was too aggressively lightened. It was made from an alloy in a wall thickness that permitted corrosion to make the casing porous. That is, engine oil could seep into the bearing case which dilutes the permanent grease and eventually thins it to the point that bearing surfaces contact each other at high loads. That eventually leads a bearing to fail. In other words, it takes corrosive fluids in the oil to start the process of weakening the case, and then it takes high loads to complete it. In fact, the latter applies to almost any Porsche, so if the first arises, then the second is sure to follow. Perhaps a little delayed in a car driven 'gently' but still inevitable once the wall of the casing begins to allow engine oil to seep into the bearing volume.

That description is my memory of another man's writing and probably he got it from another source who actually examined examples of failed bearings, but what I read sounded well-considered and I think I've done it justice in the retelling. It certainly is consistent with the wide impression that this problem is most likely in lightly driven cars, and also that it deserves the title of "an issue" only in the first year cars, those manufactured in 2005. Case wall corrosion can occur with any ball bearing of course, but to be perceived as "an issue" we'd have to see it in cars within the normal range of ownership, and I think low mileage has to be considered one of the more common modes of Porsche usage, even if Porsche recommends against garage queens. (For those who may not know, corrosive fluids build up in engines that are not operated regularly at power levels high enough to reach full working temp for the oil and coolant. Running at those temps evaporates the worst acid compounds and is an essential part of good care, along with changing oil sooner if you don't use the car as a daily driver.)

Again, our results are consistent also. We have most of the failures in '05 cars, and of the others, at least a couple I remember were cars that might well have been built in '05 although they register as later models. So what we have is a design choice at Porsche themselves (if it was all suppliers) or at some of the suppliers who deviated without being caught immediately. Porsche has corrected it in cars affected, but some of the owners who have a prostate gla... uh, an IMS feel they should have their engine changed anyway for their peace of mind.

I can understand those owners. My own prostate gives me pause occasionally, though it hasn't failed, but the maker also has declined replacement. Nevertheless, ball bearings can't be viewed as irresponsible design choices or all us engineers would be jailed. Nor is that intermediate shaft so supported a reason to complain. The use of intermediate shafts is another routine design technique.

What really comes of all this, adding in the technical article in Excellence, is:

• Owners of cars manufactured in 2005 (and you can look at the plaque in the door jamb) should make sure their car had the IMS bearing replaced if it is one of those with thin walls. If not, Porsche is likely to honor a request to replace it now, even if the car is beyond warranty, but do the work in any case. This is the group of cars that really is in the "at risk" category. Dealers have specific VIN numbers I believe.
  
• If you have added forced induction to one of those early cars, don't expect Porsche to replace that engine if it fails, in warranty or out. As a matter of fact, I eagerly await counter-examples, but I don't know of any manufacturer who would replace an engine so modified. That's one of the hidden costs of significant aftermarket mods. That is, those that actually produce serious horsepower gains, not just improved acoustics or similar benefits.
  
• For peace of mind, and because you never know what corrosion has been going on that deep in the engine, an owner of a 997.1 might want to consider the IMS bearings to be a life-limited part. Like the rotor in a helicopter, that means you should replace the part routinely after so much time or so many hours of operation. This is personal choice of course, even after the warranty period. You won't fall out of the sky, but a failing bearing in the valve-train destroys any engine that lets the valves and the cylinders occupy the same space at different times in their cycle of operation. That's called an interference design, and again it's quite common, but it makes expensive noises if the method of timing those movements fails. The IMS is part of that control for a 997.1 engine. A bearing case of the thicker design isn't going to fail while we speak, but it is reasonable to replace it after the first 50k miles I think.
• Run oil analysis at each change, and if you're really paranoid about this, step away from the computer and go install that sensor described in Excellence that looks for metal particles in the oil in real time. Now. What are you waiting for? Why stay paranoid when someone offers a pi.. uh, a solution?

Personally, I find these reports reassuring, given the acknowledged tendency to skew the results in the frightening direction. I occasionally think it would be nice to have a roadster around for those beautiful days in Spring and Fall. From this poll, it sounds like I could buy a 986 in confidence, and at worst I would want to put in the LN bearing if I'm worried about the previous life of the engine. Considering that the prices of a used Boxster are seriously tempting for such casual use, I may well buy one.

Thanks for the reports, guys.

Gary

Most of the model run sold in a year is built in the preceding year. For reasons no easier to fathom than I expect, Marketing people sometimes describe the first cars off a line as being models of the year in which they are actually built. Other times, they decide to give them the model name of the next year. Sometimes they just wander around looking confused, but that's a risk of their trade and not to be given undue attention.

Dealers also make local choices about the registration forms based on state licensing considerations. All the engineers do is put the information about manufacturing date on the car itself and then back away from all those illogical questions. Just check your door jamb and don't worry what it says on the registration.

G

Gary- clarifiying. It's OK to vote if you have a 997.1 or 997.2, M96 or M97. Just please specify what you have in your post.

It looks like there are some m97 IMS failures (very few- I think one or two but I'm not reading through all the posts again) and the rest are M96 failures. And a few people misvoted over time- someone had a boxster etc.

As far as the percentage of failures for M96 or M97 engine.. that's harder to determine and the data here sucks. Best guess is ~<5% for M96 and ~<1% for M97 based on the data here so far. Again, the data in these polls can be notoriously bad and failures tend to be over-reported because people with failures tend to talk more than people who are ignorant of the problem. That's normal human nature- "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

The intent of this thread was just to give owners a sense of how big the problem is. I've heard some really baseless comments about the IMS over time from different people in the community (someone said "50% of m96s have/will fail due to IMS").

Most vehicles have a weak point (some weaker than others but something has got to fail first). This at least gives a larger pool of anecdotal information. Personally I'm more interested to hear how these failures occured- what it a car that barely sees 4000 RPM? Was it a track engine the gets bounded off redline? Did the car sit? etc.

Hopefully it helps the community get a better sense of the problem.

-Rich


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many have been asking to understand how many of the 997 cars have had IMS (intermediate shaft) failures. Please post only IMS failures (not IMS seal failures or RMS seal failures, these are not catastrophic). Although the people on this board are not necessarilly a random sampling of 997 owners I would like to see a poll to get a better sense of it.

Please vote only once for each 997 you own (yes or no).. you can post multiple times but only vote once
Please include details of your car and engine if it failed via IMS (m96 or M97) and when.
Please let us know if there were any mitigating factors (low oil, overheat, etc) that might've led to the failure
Please post only about IMS failures, this is not about RMS failures or IMS seal failures.
Please post only for your car, no heresay or posting for a friend who doesn't frequent the board
Please post what was done to rectify the failure if your car failed (CPO engine, engine out of pocket, used engine, sold, insurance fire, pushed it into a river etc)
Hopefully this will help owners and soon-to-be owners get a sense of how frequently this occurs.

*Thanks*

Rich,

Owners of 997.2 cars should not vote because their cars do not have an Intermediate Shaft.

Ah- I see. Of course. I guess we should limit to 997 cars with m96 and m97 engines. M97 has the IMS bearing that requires splitting the case halves to replace (I see only one or two of those failing by my count)

2006 S, 27,000 miles. No IMS or RMS issues. CPO'd till Halloween next year. Water pump, front strut, and Nav/audio system replaced under warranty. No other issues. Love it.

The M96/M97 engines belong to the 997.1.

The 997.2 engine series is called 9A1 and does NOT have an IMS. The 9A1 engine has 40% fewer rotating parts than the M96/M97.

I think it's a good poll for that purpose, Rich. It certainly gave me a better idea how limited the problem is. Most polls ask questions like "Do you leave the radio on at DE days?" but this one actually is useful for current owners and potential buyers.

Gary

Going by your VIN, your car is a MY05, sequence number 2,410. Unless your car received a new motor after the fact, the sequence number seems a little low to have the newer bearing type. What month in '05 was your car built? You can find it on your driver's side door jam.

2008 C2S, no issues so far.

No it isn't. It is in no way representative of the number of people who have had failures.

If you want a better idea of how many IMS failures have occurred in 997's, just google it. Some places to look are Total911 and Pistonheads. You can also consult the boxster and cayman boards which have their own failure threads and basically the same problem on the same engine.

I will look when I get my car back later this week. How many 911s do you think they built in 2005?

Actually, it's at least as valid as googling the issue and coming up with a number of complaints that has no real meaning unless you also know the total number of engines involved. Just as an example, you could read through 100 IMS failure posts, which would sound pretty bad, but if 10,000 engines were in the sample that's a problem rate of only 1%, which would be quite insignificant. Besides, Rich's stated intent with his poll was to get a sense of the scope of the IMS problem, not do a scientifically valid study, and Gary simply agreed that it gave him a better feeling for the limits of the issue. Reading through this multi page thread and finding just 2 people with IMS failures certainly does that.

+1

Thanks, Mike. Saved me trying to compose a polite reply.

Gary

2007 Carrera 4S, 20k, all OEM, no issues.

2006 C2S, 15K, all OEM, no issues (fingers crossed).

c4s, 29K no issues

Damn, that beer looks good, Norsk!

2006 C4S, 45K miles, no failure

I have no idea how many were built in '05 and many MY05 cars were also built in '04. I am also not sure if the VIN sequence number is relative to a given market (e.g. US) or is worldwide in sequence. Your sequence number would seem low if it's a WW count, but maybe not so low if it's for a given market.

LN Engineering states that later MY05s may have the upgraded bearing, but nobody knows the exact date the change was made or if it was even consistently installed on every '05 after a given date.

That's why I am curious as to what month your car was built, assuming its oriignal motor came with the upgraded bearing of the MY06+ cars.

2006 C2S, 68K miles, recently inspected, no problems/leaks, M97 early 2006 build.

2008 997.1 C2S - No failure (traded in @ 36,000 miles)
2011 997.2 C4S - No failure thus far (8,000 miles and growing)

2007 997.1 C2S - 30K mi. No failure.

You know that your will NEVER have an IMS failure in your 2011 C4S, right?

That is because it doesn't have an Intermediate Shart.

According to the door jamb, my 2006 Carrera S was built in September 2005. No problems as noted in previous post. In fact, the car has been totally trouble free.
Just wanted to post date of manufacture of "2006" model.

My car was built in April '05.

08 997 C2S 19K miles - no issues

2007 C2S 30K no issues. Oil Changes only.

I changed my clutch last week. I saw some oil at the bottom of the transmission right at the engine and a drop or two on the garage floor.. So I bought a RMS. RMS was fine but the IMS was seeping, maybe 4-5 oz total-- some old and some new oil. It made a mess in the bell housing and the back of the engine. LN engineering literature indicates I may be looking at a failure. It is a 2006 997s with 55000 miles, never abused by me but I am the third owner. The car was in New Mexico when I bought it, the owner said he put 12000 miles on the car. Stottard sold the car to the first owner so it was up north for awhile.
So no failure of the IMS yet but I am worried. I am looking at breaking down the engine before it fails and costs triple to fix. On the 2006 "M97" engine apparently you must break the engine down to replace the bearing because the bearing is larger than the hole for the IMS cap.

2006 C2 997 30,000 miles no IMS or RMS issues. :biggulp:

Yes. The engine cases must be split. Probably best not to wait. Post how you make out.

'05 C2 with no IMS problem so far at 71K. Daily driver. RMS replaced (at Porsche's expense) at 45K. No other engine issues.

Thanks, at least that gives a date as one data point. Your build date seems to lay some support to LN Engineering's statement that later MY05 cars may have the newer beefed up bearing of the MY06-MY08 997.1s. I believe the Porsche factory started building MY06 997s as early as July '05. (I know someone who has an MY06 with a 7/05 build date.) So April 05 would seem to be a later run MY05.

Did you analyse the oil / oil filter looking for metal fragments? Anything there?

MY 2006
~55,000 miles
No RMS Failures
No IMS Failures
No Oil Consumption

Matt

2006 997S - IMS failed at Road Atlanta in August with 55,000 miles.

2005 and no problems. 36K miles.

How do I change my vote from no problems to engine just grenaded at 75K miles? Less than one month after CPO expiry, no leaks of any kind till the big one! However, Porsche NA comes through and agrees to cover a new engine and labour for the engine swap.

Wow. After 75k miles they're swapping in a new engine. I'd say that's a decent attitude. Nice to know.

Gary

oh just great - no problems so far for me, BUT I have an 06S, I track it, and I have high(ish) miles...ohhhh fuuuuuuu... :\

that is awesome - well done porsche NA!

Ditto... kudos to Porsche :thumbup:

It's great to hear that Porsche covered you.

Sorry for not keeping up but is this the first 2006 with IMS failure recorded on this thread? I thought that I was safe buying a 2006 997.:crying:

There are others. It's definitely more rare than pre-2006, but still happens.

Baz and Jake have both suggested that many times (maybe even most of the time) the failure is actually something else that goes first, and the engine grenades, and because of the grenading the IMS also breaks and people incorrectly blame the IMS for the failure.

eg. on post-2005 models in particular other root failure modes may be more common.

Nope
 

MY 2006 C4S
+57,000 miles
No RMS Failures
No IMS Failures
Some Oil Consumption

Hmm, my 2006 997S just hit 55k...

yeah, but this doesn't make up for many 996 owners who got "the shaft"

I changed the oil in my 03 996 on Sunday. I cut open the filter to find small pieces of black plastic that look to be seal material. My car is at my indy as I type this for a LN IMS retrofit. Better to be safe than really sorry, and broke.

I don't think anyone is too concerned about the RMS but the IMS is a bigger deal.

Oh sheet, my bad.

I'll work on my reading comprehension.

Hopefully a moderator will be kind enough to remove my errant vote of 'YES'.

Removed.

:cheers:

'08 997 C4S 12K miles no IMS failure
'07 Boxster S 8K miles no IMS failure

It looks like you caught it just in time!

2005 C2 with 60k miles....No issues

2008 C2S, 45k miles, no IMS failure

2009 C4S 20k miles no failure

Has there been any real issue with the LN IMS replacement failing (after time) or is that pretty much considered a fix that will last the life of the engine? Or as mentioned previously, something that should be considered to replace every 50k miles?

I'm searching for a 06-08 S but the thought of a 20k engine repair (even at 1-5% odds) is frightening. I could foot the bill but I'd never hear the end of it from the wife. :eek:

Even if there was some standard that Porsche would pay for half, or whatever - at least something that could be planned for.

2006 C4S X51 now with 34,700 miles.
No IMS Failure
RMS leak at 26,000 miles noted at CPO check immediately prior to my purchase; Porsche repaired under warranty.

There was just a thread about some LN IMS failures in the 996 board. But realistically it's far more likely to have some other type of engine failure.

Maybe you know this, but to be clear, the LN fix does not apply to those years, they have a better OEM bearing and no LN upgrade is possible.

Regardless of IMS, there are various other failure modes of these engines. You need to either have the savings and be ready to "self insure" or just get an extended warranty for piece of mind. CPO is probably the best option if possible.

Yes, Porsche often picks up the majority of the bill; unfortunately they are very inconsistent about it.

LN has been backpedaling on the longevity claims of late, and now even admits to several failures of their single-race bearing. It's nothing against Charles, he's always been measured in his approach, at least by comparison with the other chap who tends rather more hyperbolic at times. From a legal standpoint, LN is wise to disclaimer conservatively.

That said, these are mechanical parts, and as such subject to outliers and defects. LN can't help it if these engines are designed such that failure of a single bearing is sufficient to cause sudden and catastrophic damage. They also can't be privy to every installation...whether an engine is already loaded with metallic debris from failing internals, that will find its way into the open LN bearing and chew it to pieces...or whether an installer follows meticulous protocol or mandhandles the job. All we can say is that at present, the LN bearing is surely the best best going.

And that said, the problem is that a directive to change the bearing every so-many miles is not an effecacious protocol, because these bearings (including the LN) seem to fail suddenly rather than wear-out gradually. Complicating the issue further is that their IMS Guardian recognises only ferrous debris, and the single-race LN bearing until recently had a plastic ball cage...which is what failed in the one case LN could determine the precise cause.

The labour to inspect and/or change the bearing is such that for those who are not DIY guys, it tends to get done in concert with a clutch overhaul. And for those of us who do not mistreat the clutch, that really isn't an every-50K-mile proposition...in fact, in all my years with so-called performance autos, I've never had to replace a clutch, even at upwards of 150K miles. "Thankfully" the previous owner of my 997 was murder on the clutch, so it was about 50% gone at 30K. My IMS bearing was fine, but I put in the LN replacement anyway. Now I'm thinking perhaps I jumped the gun...should've perhaps borne with the stiff clutch pedal a while longer, in time to get the revised LN bearing with the steel cage, and a Guardian.

Or perhaps I need to either sell the car or write myself a scrip for Prozac:thumbup:

2006 997s 61k no IMS failure.

What's your car's birth date?

Sounds like you've obsessed and been proactive enough. Time to go out and drive the pi$$ out of the dear. Life being short and all that . And it's good for your bearing. Have fun

2007 C2S; 42k; no IMS issues.

2008 C2S, 40k. So far, NO failure. *knocks wood* According to service records, RMS service was performed at around 33K miles to address a leak.

2006 C2; 24k miles, No failure. Previously: 2005 987 Boxster; 45k miles; No failure.

07 S 997 18,000 no problem

07 997 40,800 miles, just change the oil, no metal on the magnetic drain plug, No sign of metal on oil filter paper. No oil consumtion. No sign of leaks.

05 997.1 39,000 no IMS issues. It's a later build car with the updated bearing. I did have valve lifter issues that required all the lifters be replaced. No problems since (35,000) at all.

2006 C2S. No IMS issues until 110 000km. Then engine was rebuilt (not because it needed it, but supercharger install and bearing changed)

110Km? AWESOME! :rockon:

Yep, in fact no major issues at all since I bought it in 2008. Very happy with it :)
But I guess the engine won't handle another 110K with the charger

110k KM = ~ 68k miles. Not that unusual

2006 C4 29,000 no problem

[QUOTE=997C2S9ff;9572972]Yep, in fact no major issues at all since I bought it in 2008. Very happy with it :)
But I guess the engine won't handle another 110K with the charger[/QUOTE]

But I bet yer gonna try !

Several of us have more than 68 K on the 911. I have 75 K and I know others that have more miles.

Absolutely :)

Yes, I've also seen more. My friend's late 2004 C2 with around 145K km without IMS issues.

05' Carrera S - Just replaced the IMS at 61k miles with an upgrade LN Engineering version. Old bearing showed no signs of wear or seal failure.

'06 997.1 C4SCabrio, 20,400km - no issues.

05 997 no ims issues at 45k miles :)

2005 997
 

2005 997 C2 Cab - 60K miles - no IMS issues, but it has the newer larger bearing assembly.

on my car i just changed oil after whole winter of driving and 3 DE events this season - magnetic plug wa covered with metal 'powder' but neither magnet nor inside of a filter had any separate metal particles or pieces, so, i assume engine is doing fine so far. '06 car with 60k+ miles on it now, about of 25 DE events and driven hard.

3or so weeks so a friend of mine with a 07 Carrera S IMS failed and engine and block is beyond repair. He use to post on here sometimes but it's been awhile. He changed oil a lot, looked at filter for tell tail signs...nothing...then Boom one day.

2008 C2S 34k miles, no issues

2006 c2s aug pick up, 43k no issues.

2005 C2 Cab
 

2005 C2 Cab late fabrication in March 05, meaning newer bearing - 62,000 miles - no problems.

2005 997 S
74,000 miles as of August, 2012.
No IMS or RMS issues. I have the magnetic plug which is checked for signs but that is the only precaution.

I drive about 18,000 miles a year.
It does consumer oil though. I add about a quart every 1,000 miles and change oil every 5,000. I use 0W40.

-T

This scares me to death. Was he taking the car to the track a lot? DD? Garage queen? Any additional details on this?

2004 (996 recently sold) C4S Cab 70K miles, Did have RMS leak and checked IMS then with no issue.

997 4s 2006 : no failure (47000 kms)

2005 997.1 - 40,000 miles; No IMS issues; No sign of leaks...

Is there a documented failure of the late ims on late 2006 to 2008? I read an article in total 911 where well rept. UK company saying they have NEVER heard of a failure with the late IMS. Very interested to know. Thinking of getting a 997 4s. Im one of the 964 guys...

what is the exact month where the revised, larger bearing was put into use? anyone know?

I believe another thread identified a spring 2005 (Feb 05) manu date for the switchover for the 2005 3.8S models. Search for this thread - " Different! - 2005 S owners - what's your engine number and production date?"

None has been reported. Article is correct!

05 C2S 55K Miles, lots of track time, no issues.

125K kilometres - no issues. It has the big nut = late IMS bearing.

Mine Is actually a 2002 996 with 195K kilometers *BUT* it had a factory reman engine installed at 70K kilometres in 2005.

I replaced the clutch two months ago and noted the big nut so could not upgrade to the LNE bearing.

The flange and RMS were bone dry. I didn't do anything to either of them.

33500miles 2005C2 no IMS issue

2005 C2 56,000 miles, no IMS problems, just gas, tires, oil and a few filters.

Why is the 997.2 even listed??? The IMS was eliminated!

Think it worked out to be late in March of '05.

Yes there have been failures but very few.

Wrong answer.

See post #217 on the previous page of this thread.

And that is not the only one that has been reported right here in this forum.

Stil debating guys whether i should pursue purchasing a 2005 997 manual with less than 10,000 miles in the odometer ? Car appears well kept but the service records seems to be lost.
I'm a bit skeptical because of the possible IMS faitures. For now this is all what my budget would allow me to purchase. Ive also looked at a 2008 cayman s tiptronic but i would prefer manual tranny though.

Hoping to get some insights from this group. Thanks in advance.

Pick up the 05' and update the IMS and RMS. This should run you around $1.5K. That's what I did and haven't looked back. Since my car has higher miles I also updated the clutch.

+1

Better still, drive it until the cllutch fails, or is about to fail, and do the work then.

You may be pleasantly surprised and find a M97 bearing setup anyway.

There's more difference between the carrera and the cayman than just the trans. They are different cars, with the carrera being more of one.

Is the IMS and RMS done with LN engineering ? is there a link how this procedure is done ? does this mean engine have to be brought done ?
Yes, definitely leaning towards the 05 C2. Had more fun driving that than the Cayman S. Thanks guys!!!!!

IMS upgrades are available from LN engineering. I mentioned replacing the RMS since you may as well while you're in there. Updating the IMS only requires dropping the transmission and not the whole engine.

IMS is LNE. RMS is Porsche (it's a $50 part)

The subject is discussed ad nauseum on the 996 board.

2006 997 C4S No Failure

2007 997.1 GT3. Mezger engine. Not even the slightest probability of an IMS failure...

2005 997C2S - 45,500 miles IMS FAILURE!

Motor Shot! Just ordered "New Remanufactured motor" from Porsche

I called Porsche Dealer and attempted to do "Goodwill" new engine and I was declined.

Porsche should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, I am completely disgusted by the fact that they did not stand by their car on a problem that is obviously documented as a design flaw.

Planning on writing a letter to PORSCHE USA.

If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears.

Suggestions? One would be to not buy the replacement from Porsche (too late) but to spend the money instead on having an engine built to a higher standard by LNE, or Flat6.

Two questions on the failure...

1) Are you 100% absolutely sure it was the IMS bearing that caused the failure - even if the dealership said that was the case, this doesn't mean that is what happened. It could have been a broken chain or a cracked head...any number of things can cause these motors (or any motor) to fail. If it wasn't an IMS bearing failure, the engine may be salvageable....but Porsche won't tell you that. They would rather just sell you a new motor.

2) Was yours an M97 or an M96?...the crucial difference being the design of the intermediate shaft bearing. Early 997 cars still had the M96 engines installed. It wasn't until late 2005 that Porsche started installing the M97.

In either case, you need to inspect the engine once it is out of the car. Unless Porsche is paying you for the old one, then you own it and you should exercise that option. I'm sure there's a market for that motor no matter what shape it's in.

I'm interested in this because the M97 used a different IMS bearing design....one that I understand is *not* prone to failure...and that is what is installed in my 996. If you have a new style IMS bearing and it did indeed fail, then that would be an interesting case, and as I understand it a rather rare one at that..

So - pics? detailed inspection report? Don't trust the dealership to tell you the truth. Not because they don't want you to know, but because they don't know themselves.

2006 Carrera S 71k No problems

ims failure
 

One of my coworkers has a 2000 Boxter with 65k on board. 3 weeks ago she changed the oil and the shop said that the oil filter had metal shawings!! So I told her to take the car to a very respectable Pcar shop in central CT("hairy dog grrrage") and they replace the IMS bearing for her. A very close call but she was very lucky to catch it on time. She brought the old bearing to work and I took a couple of pictures that i'll try to upload.

I have been following the IMS failure via a number of forums and I have NOT seem actual evidences or pictures that the larger IMS bearing was the cockpit of blown engine. A blown engine occurs for many reasons and it might/might not be the IMS...
Here is my request:
If your blown engine is a M97 with the larger bearing (3605) please post the dealer's reports and PICTURES of the actual bearing showing the failed components.

Until now, I'll say zero failure for the M97 engine with the larger bearing (3605).

Have a friend with a 2000 Boxter too that had the same issue and installed the INS bearing... dodged a big bullet.

I wonder, there are the bit of the bearing, still inside the engine?

Holden-I'm pretty sure flat6 has posted a picture of a larger bearing failure on rennlist. You might be able to search around for the photo.

2005 (NOV 2004) first generation 997 20K no issues.....hope for none since this is my first Porsche :burnout:

I would change it to the LN, you are right in the wheel house of engines with the old barring. Cost me $21K to find out, do yourself a favor.

just read this on autoblog about the 2013 M5 M6 v8tt. recall.

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, "a manufacturing process error" could cause the oil pump's driveshaft to separate from its rotor, leading "to a sudden loss of oil pressure causing the possibility of complete engine failure, resulting in an engine stall-like condition, increasing the risk of a vehicle crash."

I wonder if if they will get around to Porsche.:)

Rob

2005 997 73,000 No Issues

2007 carrera s, 31k miles NO failure

2007 C2, 52k miles - No issue, however, a little over a year ago, (prior to my purchase of the car), the PO had the RMS replaced, and did the IMS "while they were in there".

Was the IMS replaced with OEM or LNE unit?

To the best of my knowledge, OEM.

no problems so far
 

no problems so far 20k just joy.

07 4S w/31k miles no issue.
I see it is recommended to start easy but once warm, keep RPM above 2500 for better lubrication. No problem here. May be more on an issue with the tiptronics and grandpa driving.
Question - can someone verify the IMS was removed for the 09 model w direct injection? One web page stated so?

I assume you meant IMS seal and not the IMS bearing. I believe for your car replacing the bearing would mean dismantling the engine.

You are correct... it was the seal and not the bearing. From what I have been reading though, by 2007 the bearing issue was addressed by Porsche.

That's my understanding as well.

close to 50k, LOTS of track miles, no problems

07 c2s btw

No issues on my '06 C2S but I have removed the seal from the IMS bearing. Lubrication now comes from splash oil in the crankcase...

I thought that the 997.2 Porsches eliminated the ims bearing?

07 targa 4S no issue

81k miles of happiness (plus a few track days) and no IMS issues whatsoever. My RMS was replaced under warranty at 45k. Dealer service tech said the few IMS failures he'd seen all occurred before 30k. I have an early 05 and drive it as much as I can without ever thinking of ... wait - what's this thread about?

Gene
_________________________________________________
05 911 C2S cab, arctic silver/black/full leather/chrono plus/nav/bose/tooki/sat/SRX
01 MB E320 4Matic wagon

2005 Carrera, YES. No extended warranty given on motor swap.

Not to divert the thread, but you may have been swindled. To the best of my knowledge there is no way to replace the larger IMS bearings on an '07 without tearing down the entire engine and busting the block open. EDIT: Oops, missed the previous comments, as Rosanna Rosanna Danna would say "Never mind!":banghead:

A. It wasn't my car when the work was done, so, no swindling occurred to me.
B. It was only the seal, not the bearing, as I acknowledged a couple of posts later.

Someone else was kind enough to point out the exact issue you did regarding the block needing to be opened up in order to replace the IMS on my car.

Nice catch!! lol

Bill, what wheel and tires are those? Look to me like HREs??

No sir... they are Victor Equipment, Innsbruck's. I still need to get some center caps. The wheels are designed for Porsche, and stock centers fit right in.

http://signatureperformancetirewheel.../F25855093.jpg

http://www.victorequipmentwheels.com/

Sounds like more than a close call. If metal bits are in the filter (cracked pepercorn size) the IMS is already compromised and detonation on the next ignition is a dice roll.
Whoever found the oil should have also advised her to tow the car to the Indy to avoid an unecessary gamble.

No IMS failure either 7.1 or 7.2
 

Previous WC 911 was 2008 C2S 6sp manual, ran up close to 50k miles, no issues, before trading in for 2012 C2GTS PDK, now 21k miles no issues.
Jonathan

2005 C2 - very low engine number, original date of purchase August 2004. 42,000 miles no problems

2008 C2 S, 60K no issues!

05 Carrera 36k no issues
 

So i bought this a few months ago and the IMS issue is terrifying me. Was told by an Indy not to worry and just drop in the new bearing/seal when I go for a clutch in a few years at 60k...said it would be like $3k for clutch and upgrades to seal and bearing. can anyone offer me some reassuring statistics or aid in determining what to do? Pretty nervous about this...

2006 C2S cab - 25000 miles no problems when sold
2006 C2S - 7000 miles tracked regularly - no problems

05 C2S. Early production car delivered in August 04. Found three pieces of metal in oil filter at 55K miles. Indie said "do not start it." Having LNG bearing installed in January and doing an LSD while they're in there. Maybe I'm being ripped off, maybe not, but why chance it.

2005 997 C2 Cab - March 2005 manufacture - No IMS Problem
 

2005 C2 Cab - with latest non-retrofittable IMS - 61K miles - no IMS problem. I use it to commute 100 highway miles round trip two times a week. I will not go over 3K RPM until the engine and transmission are warmed up and I warm it up the road and not at idle. I rarely use it to go short distances that will not allow the drive train to warm up. This 997-1 is a daily driver with constant use throughout the year.
Cicerosecundus (New York)

2005 Retro or not?
 

Can anyone provide information on how to determine if a 2005 is either retofittable with the IMS bearing upgrade or not? I have called 3 shops and only one has mentioned that my C2 is not retrofittable.

I have the exact model (silver) with the same miles and build date (09/04)...are you going to do anythign about the IMS issue? Why? THANKS

#364 2005 C2S. Delivered in October 2004. 63K miles and only standard maintenance required thus far. It is a daily driver and the sunroof is broken now. I'll fix the sunroof :D

very early 2005, just after launch cars, purchased new in september 2004, 30k ( used to live very close to work, now that I do not so it gets driven more) - I have oil analyzed each year with oil change, no issues

no failure yet but replace clutch
IMS cover seeping soooo?

That's correct. The ones with 997.2's who are posting are a little ignorant, but that's ok. :)

06 997S, VF-E s/c, 33000 miles. No IMS issues thus far. Had to replace RMS seal only.

2006 C2s 35,500 miles no ims failure just changed the alternator cable which cost me 950!

2006 C2S No failures

IMS
 

No IMS/bearing failure. In fact, no issues with engine/drive-train at all. C2 Cab 6-speed 42K

2005, 12/04 build S, 90k miles, tiptronic. No issues. I take Bruce Anderson's advice: each time I take it out, when the oil is warm I make sure I spend some time >6k rpm. We (the car and I) both enjoy that. I do the filter inspection on each oil change.

Has anyone looked to see what % ot total failures affected '05 model year. Seems to be the majority by far. I'd do the bearing if I had an early build. Or maintain a good warranty.

It is my understanding that the first 997 cars were equipped with M96 engines. It wasn't until later that they came with M97 engines. That makes them exactly as vulnerable as the 996 model cars.

I think the point of this thread/poll is to tease out how much more reliable the big bearing M97 was (so far it appears significantly). That should have been the question from the start.

From what I have read recently the M96 was the 3.6 engine slightly tweaked from 996 engine to deliver 5 bhp more and the M97 engine was the 3.8 used in the Carrera S. I originally thought like you the M96 and M97 depicted difference between small and large IMS bearing fitted cars.

2005 997.1 IMS failure. 60k miles and daily driving with oil changes every 3000 miles.

'05 C2S, 66+k miles, not babied and no issues (knock on wood).

Does your post mean you have an IMS failure?

This poll doesn't make sense. It says 5% of people have had IMS failures, but the thread responses seem to be way under this, probably <<1%.

What gives?

2007 Carrera S 997.1S - 40,300 miles - NO IMS or RMS problems.

2006 Carerra S. 43840 miles and no RMS/IMS issue. No engine issues of any kind so far.

Are there any 3.8 l engines that had the IMS problem? I don't see any in this thread.

This past Thanksgiving week my IMS bearing failed, resulting in a catastrophic engine failure. 2005 997S with 34,000 miles (garage queen, multiple PCA zone/region concours winner. Luckily, CPO still valid! Prime Porsche near Boston did the work. While driving it locally, I felt/heard two short rattles coming from the engine (death rattle?). The car drove fine the remaining 15 miles home. 15 minutes after parking in the driveway there was a 2-feet diameter oil pool under the car. After flat bedding it to the dealer, the tech drove it into the shop. He indicated that normally the engine will not run at this point. He found the oil filter full of metal shavings! PCNA approved the engine replacement on that basis.

Oops. Thanks for sharing. Good that Porsche picked up the tab.

Sorry to hear that David. But glad Porsche picked up the tab.

What is your engine number? I'm betting you had an early 05... before the switch to the larger bearings.

Let us know!

+1. That couldn't have worked out any better. An new engine on an '05 fantastic.

How do I know if my car has the new or the old ims bearing??
Its a M96/05 with enginenumber 69508109.
VIN= WP0ZZZ99Z5S704016

Should I be concerned?
 

14k C2, early 05, po have RMS replaced. Last night I changed the oil (9 mo and less than 3k since last) I noticed on my L&N magnetic drain plus some grayish grease... Is this normal? It wouldn't indicate a leaking IMS would it?

I've been using Motul 5-40w since ~9k. Extended warranty through Costco.

Thanks for any thoughts or input in advance.

Grey swerf (as it's called) is entirely normal. It's the chunks you're looking out for.

IMS stands for intermediate shaft - the shaft doesn't leak. It's a shaft.

IMSB stands for intermediate shaft bearing - they don't leak either - but they do fail catastrophically.

The IMS flange has been known to leak - but that's no big deal in and of itself.

Anyway - nothing you report is a concern.:thumbup:

I have one of the early build 05's (can't remember exactly, but August 04 build date I think?). I just had the RMS replaced due to a slow leak, so of course I did the L&N IMS bearing and clutch assy. The car has 56K miles. I looked at the old IMS bearing with the tech and it was completely intact, and rolled smooth as silk. The rubber seals were completely intact and unmarred. I feel good that I have the updated bearing now, but it's also nice to know that the old bearing was holding up well. BTW, the clutch disc probably had 25K miles left in it.

Is that Motul X-cess 8100? If so, that's Porsche approved and an awesome oil (on my turbo Audi anyway).

McCulla do you have an 05 S?

BED997--no my car is a base, non-S car.

2005 997 Cab, March 2005 build date
 

64,000 miles to date. No IMS issues - Porsche agency said that I have the new bearing assembly. Had to replace the key and steering lock assembly due to electrical failure of a tiny electrical board that controls the locking and unlocking of the car.

2009 - 997.2 C4S - NO failure

Maybe b/c your car doesn't have an IMS bearing?

Conceivable that no ims would yield no failure of ims. Lol

Survey
 

No failure @4700 miles

05 c2s no ims issue

how many miles? what's your production date?

05 C2 with failure at 10,000 miles in 2006. Replaced engine and 70,000 miles with no issues.

2005 c2 997 build date March 2005. 17k miles , original owner . Brought to Indy for oil change last week and noticed some weepage. Pulled apart and found IMS seepage and is the updated larger bearing-so not eaisly servicable. No metal found in the filter nor on magnetic drain plug and car runs great, so no actual failure at this point. Contemplating next move, bring to dealer to confirm/inspect in anticpation of piggybacking class action suit on MY 2001 thru Feb 2005 -probably many more 05-08's will begin to surface as time goes on. Still will be out big dollar labor to the Indy for inspection and potentialy labor at the dealer to document /bandaide (replace flange seal?) so that if the worse happens I may have luck with PCNA. Who needs or has time for this bull....

re: IMS failure?
 

2007 Carrera 4S. 6 spd. 54K daily driver. CPO purchase @ 44K. NO IMS issues to date. Thx God.

2005 CS Launch edition 31k miles CPO - No issues

2006 C2S. 50k miles. No IMS issues

Maybe this thread is losing steam but I just became a member in May '13 and read every single previous post, and very interesting. One guy even wrote a book, or part of one! I have had one M96 engine and 2 M97 engines, current '07 C4s included. The '09 TTI had for short time doesn't count as we all know how bullet proof the Metzger engine is. My previous '02 and '06 911s had 50k+ miles and had zero issues and leaked no oil. And of course this '07 X-51 w 12k miles is awesome too. So that is 3 votes for "no issues" though I only voted once:)

Previously responded 2005 997 C2, 37k, build date 09/04, no issues until small metal bits found in oil filter a month ago. Blackstone analysis, didn't point to anything and levels looked fine. Found weepage around RMS and after discussions with a tech, realized the rattling noise at start up may not be normal. Car is now at the shop for RMS,Clutch and LNE IMSB "upgrade". Enough of this nonsense.

2005 C2 cab, 03/05 build date. tiptronic, 80k mi, no IMSB issues. recently had the tip valve body replaced, had tech look to see which IMS bearing, while trans was out — was larger, newer one. i knew i was right on the cusp. i think i'm happy about that.? car runs beautifully.

2005, daily driver, 35K miles, annual service religiously, all records kept meticulously, first owner from dealer. Porsche paid for the parts $8K and I covered the labor, another $8K. Two months at the dealer and $16K later, I have my 997 back. Now looking for a 3.8 GT3 997. I'm sure I'll get bitten by the CL unless the recall is already done!

2005 Build Date and bearing
 

MCHANMD-- what was your build date and which bearing-the smaller or revised larger one? I believe the larger one was in March 2005 builds and on, but not necessarily absolute. If everyone listed this (for 2005 MY) then it would help discern older style bearing failure vs larger bearing failure rate with regard to 2005 997s.

IMS failed this week
 

2000 Boxster at shop now. Shop owner said my IMS bearing failed and now he valves are all bent. Needs a new motor. How much would the car be worth with a bum motor?

Do not ignore the warning signs: any metal in oil filter element, weeping from RMS (visible after removing rear belly pan) or any rattle at cold start. My 05 (build 9/04) C2 w/37k had all three (a handful of very miniscule metal pieces in filter) and despite a "normal" oil analysis the bearing was failing. I'm spinning it in my hand and it's noisy. This problem is frustrating, stressfull and real. Spend the $3k. You suck Porsche for not handling this better, but somehow I can't stay mad at you.

2005 997 series 1, C2. No IMS issues as of yet, 41K miles.

Have a '06 C2S with about 16,000 miles, no issues. But how do I tell if it has the problem. Build date was April, 2006. Presently trying to sell and one of the buyers asked about it. Thanks

Your's is a 2006, the build dates for the old bearings are supposedly late '04 and early '05. Scroll through these posts, I believe there are exact parameters listed or do an advanced search in title only for IMS in this forum. Look at post 317 for example, his build date was March '05 and he was told by Porsche that his has the new bearing.

The best thing for your buyer to do if there is concern is have a PPI done at a dealer and have them verify it for him.

Could anybody who had IMS failure and had aftermarket insurance to cover portion of the bill chime in on how difficult the process was and what kind of insurance it was? this topic raises up constantly but we do not have nearly enough information on this issue - what companies do pay OK and what companies only create problems.

What is your engine number for interests sake?

2006 Carrera 4, no IMS issue or replacement and currently at 31k miles. However the prior owner had RMS replaced by Jack Daniels Porsche.

From the class action suit: Model Year 2001-2005 Porsche Boxster or 911 vehicle

"Discovery and investigation establishes that Porsche adopted a single
row design for the IMS in 2001. The payment of warranty and goodwill claims of
owners of Porsche vehicles with this design of the IMS (all Class Vehicles) spiked
up to between 4% to 8% of all such Vehicles in the United States, and 4% to 10% of
all Class Vehicles in California. Warranty claims for Porsche Boxster and 911
vehicles relating to IMS issues, which had different versions of the IMS, have
uniformly involved claims of far less than 1% of such vehicles. Indeed, to date,
Porsche has spent over $20,000,000 reimbursing customers for the parts and labor
necessary to repair vehicles experiencing engine damage or failure as a result of the
defective IMS shaft. (This entails approximately 3,100 claims granted under
warranty or good will.)"

Just bought a 2006 C2S with 23,000 miles and CPO from the local Porsche dealership. Dealer said they just replaced the RMS just to be safe and made no mention of the car having prior IMS issues.

I believe they can't CPO a car if it has had major mechanical problems prior so I am fairly sure the car never had an IMS failure.

The Poll is very FLAWED!
 

Since the class action settlement has caused the IMS issue to make the headlines once again, I decided to check on the accuracy of the "YES" responses in this poll. I have pain stakingly checked on each rennlist poll participant who checked yes and the result is quite eye opening.

Many of the folks who voted "yes" don't even own a 997!!! :grr:

Of the 37 "yes" replies as of July 28, 2013, only about half are valid IMHO. I would break it down into the following groups:

Group 1 - Confirmed or probable 997 IMSB failure number: 18
- 16 of the 18 are MY05 997 cars, 1 MY06, and 1 MY07
- As this poll is really suppose to be about 997 failures, in my view, only the "yes" replies given from Group 1 are valid.

--
Group 2 - Confirmed or probable non-997 IMSB failure number: 7
- 5 996 owners, 1 Boxster, and 1 Cayman

Group 3 - Suspect, unconfirmed or second hand "yes": 4
- After exhaustive searching, I could find no evidence to indicate these folks really experienced an IMSB failure. One person seemed to be a Porsche indy and perhaps provided a second hand "yes". The rest I called "suspect" or "unconfirmed".

Group 4 - Mistaken "yes": 2
- Two people in the poll admitted to wrongly answering yes

Group 5 - Spoilers: 6
- These are folks who seem to have no record of ever owning a 997 (or 996 or Boxter or Cayman) and voted "yes" for the heck of it. Most are 993 owners.

Yes- M speedster, I've been occasionally doing the same calcs as you and contacting the people who have had failures.

For groups 2, 3, and 5 I've contacted a number of them and received a response that many of them own multiple cars or have since switched cars since the failure. So very difficult to get a truly accurate account.

This poll was never intended to be a truly scientific poll but when I started the poll, there were some people saying that 50% of 997s were failing or 1% were failing. Clearly, neither of those are the case. The poll is also biased because it's polling enthusiasts (people who are involved with a car enough to spend time on the computer talking about it). Those people MAY have use patterns that may cause more failures etc.

What can we scientifically conclude from the poll?: Not much. It's likely but not proven that the failures for 997s as a whole are less than 5-6% (probably more like 3-4% and there may be extenuating cirmcumstances that cause many of those). The m96 engined cars are more likely to fail than the m97 cars.

I'm pleased though that at least now we have some sense of what we can expect as 997 owners.

Just to clarify - the 997 engines with the smaller bearings, mainly early build 2005 997's are more prone to failure, whether an M96 or M97. My engine is an 2005MY M96 with the larger revised bearing -so the blanket statement of M96 vs m97 is more prone to failure is inaccurate in of itself; the frame of reference should be older style bearing vs revised bearing typically found in non late build 2005 997s. Furthermore, if one is to believe the discovery info as a result of the class action suit, those findings indicate less than 1% failure rate on the larger revised bearing vs 4- 8% for the smaller bearing. So non late build 2005 997s could be subject to 4-8% failure while the rest is less than 1% FWIW.

Third lin in previous post should read "bearing typically found in late build 2005 997's"

2006 C2 no ims issue yet.
 

Purchased used from Porsche dealer over a year ago. Today is around 50k, and engine missing with service light on about a week ago.

Replacing the original plugs coils....ugly coils btw.. Will reset with dura metric and see?

Just purchased from individual last week.

2005 C2 (M96/05) May build date. No failure. 35,000 miles.

2005 Carrera S Cabriolet
Failed at 57,196 miles as I pulled into my garage after driving 800 miles in one day (from VA to NH) Oil and filter were changed before my trip to VA from NH. I pulled into my garage and didn't hear any unusual noises or notice any problems. I shut down the engine as normal and went to bed. The next day I woke up to a pool of oil under the car. I knew immediately what had happened. Luckily, in 500k traveled in Porsches over 22 years, I have yet to be stranded away from home. :) After consultation with Jake Raby and finding out that his schedule was pretty packed and he wanted the entire car delivered to GA and I would potentially not get it back until next Spring if a rebuild was required. I searched for a local shop which was capable of doing the work. Daniel Jacobs, LLC a/k/a Hairy Dog Grrrage in Oxford, CT got the car via flatbed after I pulled the pan and filter to confirm it was an IMS failure. Lots of shiny metal in the pan and filter. Amazingly, Daniel Jacobs was able to save my engine. They dropped the pan and cleaned out the bottom of the engine, replaced the bearing with the LN retrofit kit and carefully flushed the engine several times with cheap oil. After the second change, no metal was found in the oil. On the 997, the oil goes from the sump to the pump then through the filter. If the filter isn't clogged or defective, metal should never get into the oil passages inside the engine. They changed it again for good measure. I just drove it home today - 250 miles. So far, so good. No odd sounds, temps and oil pressure were perfect too. I really dodged a bullet! The total cost including towing and tax was about $5k which is still cheaper than a new or used engine. I would say that for the $2000-3000 cost installed for the IMS retrofit, it is crazy to not do it if you have a single row bearing engine.

I need to talk to the local shop which changed the oil before I took it on the road to see what they used and I'll update this post. I always use Amsoil or Mobil1 when I change my own oil. This car was new to me and I had only owned it for 2 months. I put about 4500 miles on it in that time. It was CPO to the previous owner. I bought it in a private party sale.

Technical details:

2005 Carrera S Cabriolet (manufactured 01/2005)
Engine # M97/0168507440 (apparently 26 engine #s before the change to the bigger bearing)

Previous owner didn't drive it much. He put less than 10k miles on it in 3 years. I put 4500 miles on it in 2 months. He changed the oil just before I bought it. I changed it again after getting it home since I wasn't sure what oil he had used for his change. I'll post again in a couple of months when I have another 5k on the engine.

Nice save! please check in from time to time to confirm you're still in good shape. That bearing looks pretty rough- almost looks like that nut was over-torqed but it made it throught 57k miles so that's probably not the case.

Don't forget to put in your claim for the 'Class Action' rebate. I suspect your VIN falls in the number that the 'C.A' targeted. It won't be much but at least you'll recover a few bucks.

05 c2s
16xxx miles
3.8 M97 - build date for vin/engine number states it was made one month after the rollover to larger single row ims bearing (same as 06-08)

if the engine hasnt exploded on me in another 40k miles ill do the ims solution when swapping the clutch. *knock on wood*

I installed the LN full flow adapter, a NAPA 1042 filter with a filter magnet, and a magnetic drain plug then changed the oil again (Mobil 0W-40 European Car Formula). I found a few tiny bits of metal and rubber from the IMS bearing and seal in the OEM cartridge filter. It still sounds great and runs perfectly. No odd noises and there was nothing unusual in the oil other than those few minor pieces caught by the filter. The magnet and better filter should hopefully catch anything remaining in there. I'll post more updates as I add miles. I added 100 more today.

No probs with my '06 C2S with 47K miles. It was delivered to me in Augsut ' 2005.

This post would be more useful if you included mileage, year/month, and type of engine/car. :banghead:

I believe the seal is made of plastic rather than rubber. Are you sure about the source?

McCrazy, my post above was a follow up to post #350 which lists all of those details.
Fahrer, the material was the same as what remained on the seal part of the original IMS bearing.

Got it SeaCoast. Sorry to hear your IMS failed but it was the early design IMS. Looks like your car became one of the 4-8% from the Class Action suit. :eek:

I live in Sweden and I'm following this thread with interest. According to a 997 pre-owned user guide recently published in Swedens major motor magazine, the journalist states: "The bearing is somewhat undersized and have to work hard. The same design is used in the Boxster, 996 and 997, but for the 997 it has decreased in extent and is very uncommon. The problem disappeared until model year 2007, according to reports. The reason is that Porsche for 2007 has mounted others improved IMS-bearings and bearing holders." (perhaps translation isn't 100%...). He also states what this thread concludes, that early 2005's are most likely to fail. Has anyone read about this improvement in the bearing construction for later 997.1 Carrera models? It doesn't say what "report" he is referring to.

I've also done a short re-search and among 196 pre-owned 997 carreras coupés currently on sale in Sweden, 2 has stated the car has a new engine, both are early 2005's. Engine was replaced at around 30000 miles i both cases, however, it does not state whether IMS-failure was the cause.

Please help me out guys, I am looking at an Australian delivered 997, and it's VIN is: WP0ZZZ99Z5S701374

I put that into the IMS porsche settlement website: http://www.imsporsch...om/porsche-vin/

and I get:

Summary:Model: Porsche 911 (997)
Manufacture Year: 2005
Assembly Plant: Stuggart
Last Five Digits: 01374
Conclusion:This is not a Class Vehicle.

Does this mean this 997 has the larger updated IMS bearing? i.e. the class action is for the smaller IMS bearing that fails?

Does the fact that it's an Australian car effect the VIN number?

thanks.

New member, potential 997 and very confused
 

Since I've started looking into buying a pre-owned 911 I've of course stumbled onto this topic from multiple sources. Right now I just flat out confused and a bit gun-shy on the whole brand due to this. I see the true published numbers which are low but really would like to get a firmer handle on this issue before plunging into buying one.

I just started casually looking and educating myself on the platform so excuse my novice questions. So somewhere in '05 Porsche went to a revised IMS to supposedly solve the problem but not completely? The new revised IMS is not compatible with LN' 'fix' and you still have the sidewall problem in the block? So for someone in the market I have three options...

1: Buy a M96 997 or late 996 with the IMS 'fix' installed.
2: Buy a M97 997 and be super-diligent with maintenance?
3: Don't buy a Porsche.

Am I missing something here other than buying a '09 or later model which is not really in my budget?

Welcome to Rennlist, ATLDiver!

You're not missing much, however:

a) The number of IMS issues on post-mid-2005-manufactured cars approaches zero. So far we only have anecdotal or 2nd hand evidence of failures on the bigger, upgraded bearings.

b) Your terminology is a bit flawed. The M96 and M97 engines were not sequential in their production timeframes. They were produced in parallel. The M96 is in all the 3.6L (i.e. non-S) engines; the M97 is in all the 3.8L (S) engines throughout the 997.1 production years (2005-2008). M97 engines don't, by definition, have the upgraded bearings. Both engines received the bearing update as a running change sometime in 2005.

Thanks mgordon, I'm trying to be as logical as possible without emotions locking me in. Also, thanks for the correction on the m96/m97 differences but its still a bit confusing. Is there a code I can look for in the VIN that would be a clear indicator; likely I'll be looking for a non-S but I won't rule it out. So in the 997.1 engines there really no 'fix' but little evidence of there being the same IMS problem. Do I have that right?

"997.1" refers to ALL 997s produced between 2005 and 2008. "997.2" cars start with the minor styling update in 2009 (which also included the completely new engine with the IMS engineered out altogether). The 997.1 cars include M96 engines on the Carrera and M97 engines on the Carrera S. The larger bearings started appearing in both M96 and M97 engines in early 2005.

The older bearings have a higher rate of failure but can be preemptively "fixed" with the LN solution. The newer bearings are, for all intents and purposes, unserviceable, but have a much lower rate of failure (as I mentioned above, the failure rate approaches zero).

You can look at engine numbers (NOT the VIN) to help determine whether or not the car you're looking at has the new bearings or the old. You can search this forum to find the engine number break point. The easiest way to tell, though, is to look at the manufacture date, found on a sticker on side of the driver's side door, toward the bottom. Cars manufactured before February of 2005 probably have the old bearings. Cars manufactured after March 2005 probably have the new bearings. Feb/Mar cars are a toss up, as no one is 100% sure when the switchover took place.

BTW, there's also some argument as to what's a better strategy: fix an old bearing set, or bet on a new bearing set. That's up to you to decide.

Ok, that all makes sense. What about cars with replaced engines, are this post new IMS?

How about the engine number 69502654, is this with the small single bearing?

Thanks.

Many people ask about what bearing they have so I made up a quick graphic to help. This chart is for 997 only, not 996 etc. Can the group please check for accuracy. I believe I have it right at this point.

^ Nice chart. It looks accurate to me.

Thanks Rich, that's a good visual. So what it comes down to is the actual numbers of failures of the larger, non-replacible unit. From what I've read online the rate of failures after this 'fix' are almost non-existent, do I have this correct?

Seems to me it's almost better to have the smaller unit that you can install the fix in. From what I've read, this is even more robust than the revised unit post early '05. Again, do I. Have anything wrong here?

Looks very nice, thank you. Assuming those engine numbers are as accurate as possible that means the car I am looking at has the smaller bearing.

That's my understanding as well.

Thank you all for the great work.

I am new to the Porsche world, is this IMS problem also an issue on the 997.1 Turbos with the Mezger engine?

from what I have read... NO. The turbo engines are based on the oil cooled 964 engines and do not have the IMS bearing issue.

I too am thinking about buying a 997 06-08. Do we have any confirmed failures for 997's 06-08 ? I tried reading the entire thread but started getting headaches from my concussion..long story for another thread.

As a person looking in the same range as you, my research shows there are some confirmed failures reported here and other boards but the numbers are very small compared to the smaller units. What's not conclusive is if this was the result of other issues resulting in the IMS failing, i.e. RMS leaking and owners not keeping up on maintenance.

The post early '05's still have the this cylinder wall issue that has caused problems hence why you still see LN Enginnering 'Nickels' talked about. In full disclosure, I'm not 100% positive on all this either just what I've pieced together from here and other sites. I talked to a good friend of mine that's owned two Boxsters, a '02 and a '07 and never had heard of these issues; nor had he had any problems. Take that for what's it worth.

The take away I have is that the IMS is an issue that plagues roughly 7% of 99-early '05's but I don't believe it's a big of an issue as some report. Some post '05's have had failures but its unclear as to what, if any, contributing factors were present.

Confused? Yep, so am I.

As far as I know there is no known direct cause to it. In other words no matter how you drive your p car no one really knows how an IMS "breakdown" can occur. I have had shops here in Austin say that people have had it happen that pamper their cars and other people have had it happen that drive the car hard.( I had an 03 996 so did my research then)

There is no set mileage that IMS can occur.

So question still remains, how many 997's has it happened to in the 06-08 range? (trying to stay on subject of my question - too many people will start to speculate on triggers of IMS issues)

Very helpful. Thank you

I am surprised to see that there have been reported IMS failures in the revised bearings. On 6speed, the OP went back to each that had claimed this. There were maybe three or four listed and he could not confirm a single one. I also believe the 7% number is arbitrarily much, much higher than reality. Where does that number come from?

I do not believe there have been any confirmed failures of the larger replacement bearings. Since everyone who has posted on this thread will likely receive an update, can I ask the following:

If your 997 had the larger, non replaceable factory IMS bearings that Porsche installed in all post early 2005 997s and your car had an IMS failure, can you please respond? A VIN number would be helpful, if you can dig one up from your old paperwork (if you cannot locate the VIN, your insurance agent might still have your it).

It's worth a try... To the OP, is this OK to have in here or should this be a separate topic? My thought in having it in here is it should reach the vast majority of those who have posted and not changed their email addresses.

Sure, leave it here. If people post a failure I always ask for the car and engine number. Sometimes people are not that great about giving details. The point of the poll is not to give a true percentage of failures but to give a sense that it's not 50% failures and it's not 0.5% failures. This is far from a scientific poll.

There have been very few failures stated here in the list (use the search function) of the larger bearing but it's difficult to say 100% for sure that it was the IMS root cause as when the engine is trashed sometimes it's difficult to root-cause the failure.

Usually, when people do have a failure people are reticent to talk about it because they feel bad about it and of course the first questions people will ask are "did you money-shift it?" or "did you run it out of coolant" etc. So, it's tough to get details.

Thanks and it is a great thread! I had never heard the term "Money Shift" before, what a dreadful term!

I replaced the engine in my 997.1 C2 at about 51k miles. No symptoms except for a tiny oil leak; as the shop dismantled things to find the source of the leak they discovered play in the crankshaft. I could have had them tear the engine down to find out the problem, but would have had to replace it in any case so decided not to pay for the additional labor. Downside is that we don't know for sure what the cause was, but it wasn't the IMS. (Unfortunately, or I'd be able to recoup some costs via the class action suit.)

How much did that replacement engine cost? did you get $ back from your old engine?

IIRC the crate engine from Porsche w/included 2-yr warranty was about $16k. Plus labor, plus I had the clutch replaced, etc - close to $20k all told. Fortunately I'd bought the car used and got a great deal... so that made it just a so-so deal. But that's the only problem I've had (albeit a biggie), and she's still a beaut so I have no regrets. We're off next week for five days straight at VIR, and you can bet I'll wear out long before she does. :)

what year is your car? c2 so i assume its the 3.6L engine?

glad to hear your ride is back on the road

Tiny oil leak and the engine was dismantled ??? Need more detail - most cars develop tiny leaks at some point.

Wow, Seacoast's post makes me sick! Glad it was recoverable.

no failure
 

No failure 2007 turbo

Mine was built on 03/2005 with updated bearing. Anyone from 2005 with updated bearing has ims failure?

05 C2S, no failure.

its hilarious when 09+ and turbo guys add to this thread re no ims failure.

Take note that the original request says "IMS failure for your 997 car, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1, .2, m96, m97, failure mode)".

What you find funny is an expected outcome from anyone who isn't fully aware of all the IMS details already and responds to the poll without first reading the hundreds of posts here.

I dont get this my car was built in july of 06 but yet i have the small bearing unless the dealer i went to are morans.

how do you know it's July 06 build? Vin number? Engine Number?

how do you know you have the small bearing? you have to take off the transmission to check which is a big job.

I had the car in the dealer last year for the alt cable to be replaced and when it was there the service manager told me my car has the 996 bearing or the smaller bearing. The date of birth of my car is july06 its a 2006C2s. The dealer never opend the case but i would fugure the manager would know.

Engine number?

Damn the cars at the shop for a few weeks i remember looking at it it was very faint. Is there any other number i could look at? The price tag paper the car came with maybe?

997_rich posted a table on post number 368 in this thread that might be helpful.

I am looking at an 06 911S with 36K miles. It had the IMS and clutch replaced under warranty. Is this a major red flag? Should I move on to another car? Thank you for your input!!!

Well - first of all the IMS is the InterMediate Shaft. That would not have been replaced. It's internal to the engine and it can't really fail by itself. It's the bearing at the end of the shaft that is known to fail - and sometimes the flange at the end has been known to leak.

They either replaced the InterMediate Shaft Bearing (IMSB) or they simply replaced the Intermediate Shaft Flange. First thing you have to do is verify what work was done.

If they replaced the IMSB - then that woul dbe a good thing (obviously) because that's a job you won't have to do yourself.

If was only the flange, then you *may* want to avoid the car because you will want to replace the IMSB at some point....depending on your ability to deal with anxiety.

Obviously a new clutch is a good thing in either case.

I'm not sure why a new IMSB and a new clutch would be a reason to avoid a car. Perhaps you can explain that to me.

You're not the first to ask that question - but it always confuses me when people do. :confused:

check your certificate of authenticity for the engine number. with that said there has been indeed reports of march05 onward cars popping up with older/smaller bearings.

Sorry for the dumb question but what certificate? The window sticker?

Easier to just look at the engine itself. lay behind the back of the can and look past the exhaust at the engine. You can see it without jacking the car. It's stamped right into the engine block.

2006 4S, 40k miles, no IMS failure so far
2007 2.7 Cayman, 60k miles, same

Engine number from rear view. You can see it without jacking the car.

Pic courtesy of Edgy.

Thanks rich what numbers indicate your safe from explosion

Model Designation CARRERA COUP
Model 997-1
Year 2007
Order Type 997110
Engine code M96.05
Mileage 53K
IMSB Failure No

'08 997.1 C2S. No problems yet, 16K miles and counting.

05 997.1.C2S. At 48,000 replaced clutch. Original IMS was fine but got the retrofit anyways.

I just bought an 05 C2S with 45,000 miles with the understanding that S's didn't have the IMSB problem. Date of build was 04/05, vin # indicates it is not a class vehicle according to class action website. The engine # indicates it has the larger sealed bearing. Depending on how you look at the bearing issue, smaller replaceable larger non replaceable, I lucked out.
This is a great forum and a great thread.
Thanks for all the info.

Is this correct? I wasn't aware of this - any way to verify?

Sorry FullThrottle64, I was inferring that I was mistaken in my belief that S's didn't have the IMSB problem. Which is why I bought an S. After reading every post in this thread I realized after purchase that it depends on date of manufacture as to which Bearing you have.

exactly.

after feb/mar 2005 you should have the bigger (stronger) bearing. they are all still prone to failures, but the late 2005+ -> 2008 and onwards have had significantly less.

to be sure check your vin number as well as manufacture date on your porsche official certificate of ownership and then cross reference the ims settlement website.

2006 Carrera coupe 26k miles no problems uses no oil in between oil changes

Russ DeJulio Pittsburgh PA

Where you can see on your engine if you have the little or the bigger bearing?
Where you can see the VIN of your engine? Do you need to lift the car?

Unfortunately the only way to be sure is to remove the transmission but if its 2006 or later its almost certainly a big nut.

I found my engine number

I have a 997.1
C2 2005
Avril 2005
Big Bearing
53K Miles
No issue

2006 C4 daily driver/commuter here with no issues...

119,500 miles and still running strong :thumbup:

Good to hear, you win in mileage, I haven't seen anyone with more miles.

IMS Failure Imformation
 

Best bet is to go to this link and type your VIN number and it will tell you if your vehicle is part of the class.

http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/porsche-vin/

:cheers: !! keep us posted re milage updates !

Jan 2005 997.1 C2. Engine # is part of class action. 54k miles no IMS issues. Plan to change clutch next month and do LN Engineering bearing at same time.

Year 2005, mfg date 9/04, 48000 miles, no issue. Having it changed this coming week.

05 997 . IMS did fail

That's a bummer. When did it happen? How long had you had the car?

+1. foggy are you in GTA? i am always curious how many in canada have failed.

2006 997/1 C2S 27k miles no IMS failure

06, C2S, 22k, no IMS issues.

What engine numbers have the better IMS?

I just bought a 2006 911S with 39K on it. Found out it has a mfg. date of mid 2005. Paper work from previous owner shows that the IMS seal ( not bearing) caused an oil leak, and was repaired at 18K. In registering my car with Porsche North America, I was told that it was not covered under the existing "settlement" to the class action suit. Only cars with VIN #s indicating 2005 and before are covered. There is a great website with FAQs you can find by Googleing "Porsche IMS class action". The site was put up by the law firm handling the suit. There is a place where you can enter your VIN to see if your car is covered. Here is a phone # for an automated system with good info too 866.254.4760. It was given to me by a service rep at the Porsche dealer in Tulsa, OK who told me that in 12 years he has only seen ONE IMS failure. GOOD LUCK to all of us!!

2005 C2
Build date 1/2005
35000 miles
No issues yet, extended warranty ends next June and I'm planning on having the LN bearing fitted.

2005 C2S - purchased last Summer
Late '04 build date
48K miles
RMS leaking
No IMS failure and has the single row bearing.

I have the tranny out to do the RMS and seriously considering the LN kit.
Anything else I should do while the 6-speed is on the floor?
Did the LN kit myself on my '02 BoxS, same single row setup and it's been solid since @25K miles 4K on LN bearing including DE's. Thanks, Chris

2006 C2S, 40K, IMS failure - IMS replaced with latest Porsche design, full engine rebuild, closed deck design, head work, cylinders 1/2/3 re-rounded and brace fitted, cylinders 4/5/6 completely re-sleeved & pistons replaced, the list is almost endless with nearly everything being replaced. Cost was financed by the bank of me!

you should have already had the latest porsche design IMS as your car is 2006. was it checked to confirm it was the newer/larger bearing?

Never really asked to be honest, I was quoted for the newer design IMS when it was replaced. I think the manufacture date of the vehicle is a 2005.

2006 C2S - purchased last Summer
November 2005 build date
28.5K miles
RMS - no seepage
No IMS failure and I have no clue if it has the single row bearing or not. How can I tell?

you have hte newer larger one, your car is 06.

mid way thorugh the 05 model year (roughly feb 05 and beyond) they did the changeover.

2005 C2S IMS Failure
 

mine just failed last week at 45,000KM.

You have a single row bearing I think, which replaced the double row in 2000. Sometime in mid 2005 a larger single row bearing was introduced.

More details based on engine number

Good info. I was incorrect, I thought it was a larger single row after 2005 based on info from the IMSretrofit web site.

Since there is some attention here, is there a place, or someone know a link of what the innards look like on the 9a1 engine? Specifically, how are the cams operated on the 9a1 engines, timing chain still or something else?

I ask because in reality, there was an IMS prior to the M96 engine, just the barring on the engine for the IMS was different. In the M96 engine one baearing is oiled from the inside of the engine while the other one is a sealed bearing. The other engines prior to the M96 were both oiled from the inside, correct?

I have tried searching for this information and for some reason it has eluded me. :)

No intermediate shaft, camshaft is driven directly from crank.

That is my understanding, both bearings were pressure lubed on Metzger engines. The IMS Retrofit (Gen 2) replaces the single row bearing with an un-sealed double row bearing. The IMS Solution replaces the sealed bearing with a pressure fed bearing.

Despite the chart above, everything I've read about this says the 2006-08 bearing was a larger single row, but I may be wrong...

Hopefully this helps explain. Some of this is photoshopped for the purposes of explanation.

Going by this, correct me please if I'm reading wrong, the 9A1 has both cams operating off one timing chain or is that two from the front of the motor, where as the M96 AND M97 engines have one timing change for one bank on the front of the motor and the other chain for the other bank on the back of the motor.

I know this is getting way technical, but I have a hard time finding some of this stuff. I've seen pics of a of the M96/M97. I'm just trying to figure out the differences is all.

It seems that I read somewhere that the M96/M97 had less moving parts than the aircooled engines and the 9a1 has even less than the M96/M97.

Thanks for the information in advance!

Mike

sorry to hear about this, what is your vin number/build date?

also are you located in canada?

the car should have an official porsche document stating the cost of the car, all options, its vin number, engine number etc etc.

2005 997.1 with 40k miles - no failure

2004 997 Carrera S 60.000KM no IMS failure, last week i had the old bearing preventive replaced by an updated one. The old bearing was still in perfect condition.

It looks like a lot of perfectly good IMS bearings being replaced.... ( perhaps needlessly?):icon107:

997 Still going
 

2007 C2 with 76,000 miles - no IMS problem to date. The car is driven hard on the weekends only at this point.

Found sparkles in my filter and magnetic drain plug after changing the oil.38832 mi. 05 standred Carrera. Build date feb.05

Rc 82nd,
I would take that seriously. My 9/2004 build, 05' Carrera had the same thing. Grab a magnet and if the sparkles are magnetic it may point to the failing bearing. I would also drop the rear belly pan and look for weeping oil near the RMS, that was the decider for me, once I saw a weeping RMS I went for the LN upgrade.
$3300.
Sorry.

[QUOTE=atlast911;11181421]Rc 82nd,
I would take that seriously. My 9/2004 build, 05' Carrera had the same thing. Grab a magnet and if the sparkles are magnetic it may point to the failing bearing. I would also drop the rear belly pan and look for weeping oil near the RMS, that was the decider for me, once I saw a weeping RMS I went for the LN upgrade.
$3300.
Sorry.

[QUOTE=rc 82nd;11181452]

ims
 

Gunna check shops for proficiency. Gotta report to porsche per settlment issues. Gray market car ,38882mi. Runs fine. I anticipated the up grade when buying the car.was gunna wait till I did clutch , but this forces my hand. Gotta an 81 sc to drive also.
What a difference a day makes.

ims
 

Called porsche north america. They say it was a late feb.build date. The vin # falls within the settlement numbers per the lawyer web site. Porsche says it has the revised bearing(in the case, which means an engine split). I dont think they know for sure what is in there ,given the feb.build date. So drop the tranny and see if those germans can keep records like the Asians can.

Talk about due diligence paying off! Even if the $3,300 is all yours, you should be very pleased this is how you found out about it!

Just noticed the sticky. I've been lurking for over a year now!

2005 C2S purchased back in October 2012 with 8800 miles. I had the IMS let go and destroy the engine at about 10,000 miles. Car VIN was a VIN covered in the lawsuit settlement. Lucky for me I purchased an aftermarket warranty with CNA Nation through my local Porsche dealer. The engine was replaced with a new 2008 motor at 0 cost to me.

One the one hand, sorry to hear that your engine blew up, on the other hand, congratulations on the new engine done for free!

smart move re warranty.

8/04 build date
M97 engine
replaced with LN
35K miles, bearing was fine
Porsche should have redesigned stronger, stepped up and replaced these gratis and covered to 150k miles...

Just found this article, and had never seen it before, so thought some might be interested:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...paign=20140416

I have a 2005 C2S since last year and try to be very aware of the symptoms. One noted in this article is the rattle at startup which my car has always had and I contributed to exhaust and cat warming. Can anyone comment as to a difference in rattles I should be listening for?

... said the guy whose bearings came out fine! :icon107:

"Back in the saddle again"
LN bearing and seal,two quick oil changes and a clean bill of health.
Gunna light my hair on fire and steal my own car!

5-10 sec rattle at startup is chain tensioner that rattles until it fills with oil. Got nothing to do with ims and means nothing. If it does not stop in 5-10 sec it is a problem but fixable.

2006 C4S with X-51 powerkit. Currently has only 17,500 miles and no IMS issues. Plenty of oil changes throughout its life (Mobil 1 5w50).

Sean

Hi all, thanks for sharing your experiences on this topic.
I'm new to the forum and i thought i'll share my experiance.
I own a 2005 C2 997 with 103,000 miles, the car was an early 2005
(manufactured in 04)
I did some background research and as far as i could find out there were no IMS issues with this car. The car runs extremely well, no faults or issues.
having said that I'm contemplating to have a IMS retrofit, just in preventative purposes.
From reading up on earlier post, it seemed like the early 2005 was more exposed to IMS issues than the later, lucky me that i got a car that is one of the early
"good one's"… so far…

Yeah, Yeah - hurts to come out of pocket for the service but after reading about it for two years I decided to pay up. Excellence magazine should just have a running one page tech article about it because it comes up every month...

I still think Porsche could (should) have handled this differently and helped M96/M97owners by offering to either service with a stronger bearing or extend the engine coverage to a set mileage (say 150K maybe?) as long as the car was maintained properly and not abused. It shouldn't have taken a class action lawsuit that really didn't offer much to owners (especially second or third owners, etc.) in the end.

Other manufacturers have recalled cars for much less, can't Porsche help out its owners?

2006 Carrera S. Daily Driver 91,000 miles. Doesn't burn oil, no smoke on start, runs like a top. Water pump replaced at 72,000 but thats been it.

2002 996 6 speed 84000 miles no ims or engine failure
 

2002 996 6 speed 84000 miles no ims or engine failure only cracked coolant reservoir, ignition switch, and brake switch so far. Change oil every year and routine maintenance. Still on original clutch.

997S C2 Cabriolet 41K miles, no ims issues. Car was the 2nd series in 2005 (after the factory change to the newer ims design). Don't know if that is good or bad as replacing the ims requires engine teardown. But runs like a top so far.

utkinpol,

You just gave me some relief. I too was wondering about the rattle at startup on my late (built in June) 2005 C2S and possible related ims issues. It does stop in a few seconds after startup. However, I have noticed that it also stops temporarily during even those few seconds as I let the clutch out so it didn't seem like it was a tensioner. It has always done it since I purchased the car about a year ago with ~ 36K miles and I'm now up to 41K miles with no audible change.

no failure, but threw a rod bearing.rod -- a very common occurrence for 997s