LEAKYSEALS951

Hello, I am a newbie to the 997 crowd. I am considering buying a 2006 997s with 50,000+ miles , but just got the internet washing of multiple failures of ims. Evidently, the 2006 had a redesigned larger single bearing (which is good), but it cant be changed without splitting the crankcase (which is bad).

Basically, in your guys opinions... has IMS been an issue with 2006 or later models? and... how many miles do you guys have trouble free on your 2006 and 2007 models that havent shown trouble.

At this point, I cant see any fun in owning/buying the car is it might possibly fail at any moment, and the $17,000 quote from the dealer to replace the engine it doesn't seem promising.

Id almost rather get a 2005, and redo the IMS and RMS preventatively, as opposed to wait for the 2006 to fail. or... are there many people with high mileage 2006 and laters with high mileage and no problems? Any thoughts?

Ron

Edgy01

My advice is that you are probably in good shape. One of the factors that we have learned about the IMS issue is that it is more likely manifested in a car with light miles. I have an 06 that I took delivery of in June 06. I have about 56,000 miles on it right now. I don't think I'll have an IMS issue, either. These cars like being driven, and that may be a factor.

The 996 has been seen to see this issue far more than the 997s. The 997 cars from MY05 carried over some of that. By 06 the problem appears less and less.

LEAKYSEALS951

thanks! I appreciate your willingness to write on a topic that probably gets rehashed by newbies frequently in the forums. I did the low mileage failures. I was wondering (hoping more like it) that a number of people had gotten some 2006 and later models up into the higher mileage category without problems.

Out of curiosity, what weight motor oil are you running? do you use a heavier weight like 10w40 like some of the articles recommend?

Thanks
Ron

LEAKYSEALS951

I also just had a revelation I could perhaps address the IMS issue by just turning the my home computer off and never googling it again!

cbzzoom

That is the best idea! The internet can make you crazy.

My take on it :

The very early cars (1999-2002 or so) were very bad in various ways, especially the Boxsters. Unfortunately Porsche handled it very poorly, not admitting to the defects in the early M96 engines or helping owners with costs. This is what created the hysteria and all the bad rep. The cars have gotten steadily better and the failure rate on 2006-2008 cars seems to be quite low. Similarly, 2005 and Mk2 996 cars can be very solid cars if you do the various standard upgrades.

There appear to be very few failures of the 2006-2008 M97 cars. There were roughly 33k 911's sold in the USA (not even counting Boxsters and Caymen), and I've seen maybe 10 reports of blown engines on the net. Obviously not every owner with a failure posts about it, but even a 1% failure rate would be 300 cars, and you'd think we'd see a lot more angry owners.

Note that very hard track use under heavy G loads is a separate issue that has its own details.

Also the 2009+ 9A1 engine so far appears to be super solid.

Finally, the M96/M97 based cars are incredibly cheap on the used market, so that discount that you are getting as a buyer has got some of the IMS fear built into it. You can always get a CPO or other warranty if you don't want the risk.

Mspeedster

Smart move. This is the best advice you could give yourself.

While the 2005 model has had some confirmed failures, it's my belief that the topic is way over blown. Or if you really want to google, try doing a search on actual "confirmed" 2006-2008 IMS failures. I bet you'll have a hard time digging up something factual.

There have been no "first hand" reports on this forum of 2006+ failure by an actual owner. Just one second hand account by someone who says he saw a 2006 in for an IMS repair. Which even if true, the odds of the improved 2006+ bearing failing seem extremely rare.

xupkid2

After talking with Charles Navarro at LN Engineering Im not very concerned with mine at all. If I was really worried he recommends that you pull the inner seal off the existing bearing and let the motor oil the bearing naturally. He also recommends that you put in a magnetic oil drain plug and do oil changes more frequently then the factory recommends. This way you have an early warning if you see small bits of metal on the magnet.

125shifter

Having recently bought an '05 I went through all these concerns.

When I decided on a 997 (instead of a 996) I decided I would get an '06 so I'd have the latest IMS fixes. After looking at several cars over a few months I came across a CPO '05 997S and figured well, I have two years for something to happen. Since I plan to daily drive it I'll probably replace a clutch in that time which will give me a chance to check and replace the IMS bearing.

I discussed my concerns with a shop who does a lot of 996 engine rebuilds. They also noted that while the '06 is upgraded it's not replaceable. Either way, they said about $7500 would get me a rebuild, so I just put that into my possible expenses (after the CPO warranty) and bought the car

Edgy01

Factory calls for 0-40W Mobil 1 so that's what it always gets. M97.

Alstoy

I have an '05, and it has been the most reliable car I've ever owned. It is a daily driver, and I change the oil about every 7k. I have three friends with two '05s and an '07. None of them have any issues. The one common thread amoung us is that we drive our cars and take great care of them. Think about all the issues Toyota is going through now, and at one point the whole world thought Toyotas were the best. Any car can have issues. If you buy used, do the PPI and check it over as much as you can. Once you buy it drive it & look after the car like you will own it forever. Cheers.

kyrocks

I had an '06 Cayman S that had IMS failure and needed engine replacement (under CPO) at 49,000 miles.

Boatsonthebrain

My '06 is a June build, currently has 41K miles, a history of frequent oil changes with M10-40 and is driven daily, with gusto!

LEAKYSEALS951

thanks for the feedback. Id love to hear of more high mileage success stories. (of any 996/997 model year) &/or failure stories (arghhh!!!) as this car will not be cpo and a simple of fix as " I dropped it off at my dealer and they fixed it no problemo!!!"

The article that initially got me worried was from "total 911"., at "www.total911.com/news/466/" Perhaps youve all seen this. I went back and counted the reader reported failures. 1999-2004: six failures. 2005: 23 failures. 2006+: 10 failures. These include IMS and case issues. Also, some writers didnt tell the year of their car (i.e.- I drive a 997 c2s), in which case I (perhaps in error) placed in 2005.

Also, these numbers do not reflect which countries they came from, but it appears people from england, australia, canada, and probably usa (some mentioned failures in miles, not km), so it seems like a worldwide response, however, the 2006+ results seem more or less in line with cbzzoom's comment.

I will now go to work and fret over this some more! In my typical doom and gloom mentality, I ask myself, do I really want to pay $17 grand to replace a silly bearing?

But... damn I like these cars. oh the torture.

Thanks again!
Ron

cbzzoom

Obviously it is something to be concerned about, but financially I don't think it's a huge problem unless you can't stand the risk (in which case you should have a warranty or not buy a Porsche).

PCNA usually covers part of the cost for cars that are recently out of warranty, so often the $20k engine only costs $10k.

Worst case, $20k engine with 10% failure rate would be $2k expected cost. I think 10% is an overestimate for 2006+ cars. If it was 1% it would be $200 expected cost - not a big deal at all. If average cost is $10k and it's a 5% rate, that's only $500.

997_rich

One other thing to consider is that if the bearing fails it doesn't necessarily mean that the engine fails. There have been some cases where the IMS bearing fails (on symptom is oil in the driveway but not always) and the bearing was changed out. The RMS failing (symptom oil in the driveway) doesn't always result in engine failure unless you continue to drive when the oil runs out.

I have an '05 997 (with now 55k miles) that I bought about a year ago at a great price with CPO and I drive the hell out of it on a DD basis. No issues with RMS or IMS. I'll probably get the RMS and IMS changed out when I need a clutch (expected at around 100k). That should be around the time the CPO runs out too.

I would reco that you get a CPO if you can for an '05 or '06

Even if the entire engine fails 5 years down the road due to IMS and PCNA doesn't cover the cost at all, I'm sure rebuilt (and maybe tuned) engines will be available for a much more reasonable price than a crate motor from the factory.

I would caution you if you expect to sell your car in the next few years. An '05 will have a lower resale value. I put on a lot of miles and I usually drive my cars to 200 or 300k miles so that lower resale doesn't really affect me since the value has dropped so much by that point anyway.