now im worried about my alignment
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now im worried about my alignment
story telling time... i read the posts regarding alignment and specs in our site so i decided to take my pcar to the shop. when they installed the 4 wheel machine all the wheels were set up properly as per "performance ROW" specs except the rear right wheel. ok i said car had 11k kms very good tire wear IMO. anyways i decided to have my indie fix the toe in of the rear wheels. he moved it so little. i told him not to do anything to the fronts since no tire wear and wheel was centered. Guess what happened when i drove out.. it was out of center. no pulling but out of center. went back and mech started fooling around with the front toe.. eventually he got it smack right. Now the car is lighter but it felt more connected prior to the alignment. indie did not touch camber adjustments as all were in spec. simple small toe adjustments. i also had the wheels rebalanced just to make sure all wheels were round, perfect balance on all wheels. is it supposed to feel lighter? this is a serious question since we have sports cars that should feel connected rather than lighter on the road.
Poseur
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Alignments are extremely tricky and critical to the performance of the vehicle. Tire wear is a resultant factor. My advice is to start with the factory's recommended numbers unless there is something else you are trying to do. If you are trying to maximize tire life, then you must change the settings. However, know upfront that you will compromise handling--performance handling. There are several on the GT3 forum who are well versed with the settings they use for particular road courses. Take a peek over there to get an idea of what affects what.
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your so right dan very tricky thin. i however went to a specialized shop with hunter alignment machines. my indie has been doing alignment for more than 7 years and he specializes on european cars. nevertheless i think my fears are baseless. drove the car 200kms today and wow i never even thought that such minimal adjustments had so much effect. the lighter feeling brought about more confidence in driving hte car! it was really a wow!! best it ever felt since i got the car. alighnemnt is critical. everyone hsould have it if they havent done it.. reall well worthit. word of note when you adjust rear toe the steering will be off center. nevr pull off the steering wheel. always align by correcting front toe
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by the way the hunter machines had the Porsche specs. i used the Performance ROW figures. like i mention previously all camber adjustments were spot on. we merely adjusted toe on all 4 tires
Pro
Joined: Jun 2006
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Would you believe I am still on the OEM alignment on my soon to be five year old 911?
Tire wear is even and car tracks perfectly. The question is should I get an alignment when I get two new front tires this Spring?
I am leaning toward the "if it ain't broke..." school of thought but would welcome differing views.
Tire wear is even and car tracks perfectly. The question is should I get an alignment when I get two new front tires this Spring?
I am leaning toward the "if it ain't broke..." school of thought but would welcome differing views.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2010
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From: PNW
Fixing the alignment is the #1 best thing you can do for these cars. Factory alignment is terrible IMO, very understeery, it's designed for safety and stability. You will not believe how much more nimble the car is with max camber up front and less toe.
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hi frino. i agree if it aint broke dont fix it. an alignment check is just that..its a check. our cars performs so well that we think it ain broke. mu car has 11k kms on it with very good tire wear. i was telling the guy look at my tire still practically new although i have been hearing how heavy the car was with tires.. nevertheless i had him check it. the variation from perfect alignment was so small i had doubts as to wheter i should let him touch it. car felt good and perfect imo. but i said if the machine said there was something wrong then fix ti no matter how small. tech then proceeded to adjust the small amount since the problem was at the back we had another tech shout out when the adjustment was smack on. after the alignment i was surprised to see how big the steering wheel was out of center i said that small adjustment in the rear caused that kind on front steering offset? so we put car back on the machine and proceeded to align front. that cause a new found best setting. such a big difference. my wife is joking with me when i said best money spent, she said" you always say that with your car" but it really is. just my sharing.
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From: Bentonville, AR
Would you believe I am still on the OEM alignment on my soon to be five year old 911?
Tire wear is even and car tracks perfectly. The question is should I get an alignment when I get two new front tires this Spring?
I am leaning toward the "if it ain't broke..." school of thought but would welcome differing views.
Tire wear is even and car tracks perfectly. The question is should I get an alignment when I get two new front tires this Spring?
I am leaning toward the "if it ain't broke..." school of thought but would welcome differing views.
The car's suspension, steering has aged, worn, the springs have settled and while you do not notice any alignment related tire wear and the car feels ok chances are the alignment is out for the above reasons. (And it may not have been right when delivered.)
Sincerely,
Macster.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Tampa
Slicky, you have more problems and worry's with your car than anyone on these forums....WOW. I sure hope you can just learn to enjoy and drive the car.
When you get a alignment you really should have the car hooked to the PWISI so that the Porsche Tech have zero set the steering. Most indy shops can not do this and it is important to your read outs.
Since you street drive...just stick with the stock specs. Have your tech spend time getting everything equal specs on both sides.
If you want to best tire wear you need to pay attention to toe. Excesive toe will wear tires more than camber. For the street...and these are all with in stock specs....
stay around these specs....a good tech can get them even per side....but don't freak in for example camber is like -.8 one side and -.7 the other...OK?
Front
-.8 degrees front camber per side
.04 degrees toe per side
Caster can not be changed on these cars with stock suspension
REAR
-1.4 degrees camber per side
.12 degrees toe per side.....you can go as less as .10 and as much as .16 and tire wear and handling will be great
When you get a alignment you really should have the car hooked to the PWISI so that the Porsche Tech have zero set the steering. Most indy shops can not do this and it is important to your read outs.
Since you street drive...just stick with the stock specs. Have your tech spend time getting everything equal specs on both sides.
If you want to best tire wear you need to pay attention to toe. Excesive toe will wear tires more than camber. For the street...and these are all with in stock specs....
stay around these specs....a good tech can get them even per side....but don't freak in for example camber is like -.8 one side and -.7 the other...OK?
Front
-.8 degrees front camber per side
.04 degrees toe per side
Caster can not be changed on these cars with stock suspension
REAR
-1.4 degrees camber per side
.12 degrees toe per side.....you can go as less as .10 and as much as .16 and tire wear and handling will be great
Thread Starter
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hey mike thanks for the specs. i will check that out on the print out. well actually where i am i consider myself one of those guys who just enjoys his P-car. yes really. you might think i have problems with it but its a stress reliever for me that i know the car is in perfect order. 11k kms is good milege. i would surely win a high mileage for a 2010 pcar where i am.. most cars here travel less than 2k a year!!! some are selling their 2010's pcars with only 500kms. yup yup. i now always quote a statement i read here that not driving you beautiful car is like not having sex with your gorgeous girlfriend, in preparation for the next boyfriend hahahaha. i love that saying. kinda makes sense doesnt it.
by the way, when tech aligned the car, camber and toe were in the green area of the charts so we know its in spec though i did tell him to try to get it centered smack in the middle of the green area, which he graciously did. now will just go another 11k kms to see tire wear.
by the way, when tech aligned the car, camber and toe were in the green area of the charts so we know its in spec though i did tell him to try to get it centered smack in the middle of the green area, which he graciously did. now will just go another 11k kms to see tire wear.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Tampa
Slicky I see you use kms...where are you located? Keep driving and enjoying your car...I know I enjoy mine!
Did you tech give you a print out of your alignment? Mine always does...actually I stand right hitw him as he aligns the car...yeah I'm a pain is the azz but I like perfection too.
Did you tech give you a print out of your alignment? Mine always does...actually I stand right hitw him as he aligns the car...yeah I'm a pain is the azz but I like perfection too.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2006
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Up to you of course but I would advise you to treat the car to proper 4-wheel alignment. You want to get before and after printout of the settings.
The car's suspension, steering has aged, worn, the springs have settled and while you do not notice any alignment related tire wear and the car feels ok chances are the alignment is out for the above reasons. (And it may not have been right when delivered.)
Sincerely,
Macster.
The car's suspension, steering has aged, worn, the springs have settled and while you do not notice any alignment related tire wear and the car feels ok chances are the alignment is out for the above reasons. (And it may not have been right when delivered.)
Sincerely,
Macster.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2010
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good day to all i may be bloating this topic of alignment a little but as i said my car now works perfectly... nevertheless mike mentioned something about centering the wheel using the PIWIS. Is it right to assume that there are sensors in the car that indicate that the wheel is centered? if this is the case then assuming that camber is properly set, this centered position should show the right camber setting. any variation from the off center also produces an off camber measurement. Is this a correct assumption? 1. Should this be the case then we shuld always have a piwis connection when we have an alignment done. 2. pulling off the steering wheel to center it is a big nono. what effect does aligning without the PIWIS do to the behavior of the car? assuming camber and toe settings are corrected based on the asssumed center position of the steer wheel, which did not actually correspond to the sensor based center position, will the car react negatively? why is the piwis so important to an alignment procedure?