Are We Invisible?
02-01-2011, 12:07 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Are We Invisible?
[NOTE: A few days ago, I posted this message on another board, 6Soeedonline/997. The comments that I received were interesting. I am reposting this message (with this explanatory note) in hopes of getting still more suggestions and comments. ]
After I mentioned that I had driven from NYC to Florida and back recently, I was asked whether it was safe. I answered that my car was very "competent" and extremely comfortable. I asked why the person (a member of my family) thought that my car would be unsafe. She said that she was worried that large cars (like her SUV) and trucks would not see a car as small as mine.
I have had a bad experience in my previous car, a Cayman S, with a truck at a very dangerous merge on I95 just after the George Washington Bridge. I have always blamed the road design which forces trucks to cut across three lanes of traffic to turn off onto the Thruway while cars merging into the Interstate have to move to the left (the opposite direction) to get past the same exit but, thinking about her question, I wonder if she had a point.
As I think back, I can also recall an incident when I was driving across country when I was in the passing lane of an Interstate when a truck in the center lane cut me off as though he had no idea that I was there. In that case, I was saved by excellent brakes and a bit of margin to the left but as I think about it now, I wonder if he possibly didn't see me -- rather than just being dumb, inattentive or exhausted. And even if he was one of those, was the fact that my car was low, small and dark (black) a factor in the incident?
So are our cars at risk because they are small and low -- especially those that are neutral colors?
After I mentioned that I had driven from NYC to Florida and back recently, I was asked whether it was safe. I answered that my car was very "competent" and extremely comfortable. I asked why the person (a member of my family) thought that my car would be unsafe. She said that she was worried that large cars (like her SUV) and trucks would not see a car as small as mine.
I have had a bad experience in my previous car, a Cayman S, with a truck at a very dangerous merge on I95 just after the George Washington Bridge. I have always blamed the road design which forces trucks to cut across three lanes of traffic to turn off onto the Thruway while cars merging into the Interstate have to move to the left (the opposite direction) to get past the same exit but, thinking about her question, I wonder if she had a point.
As I think back, I can also recall an incident when I was driving across country when I was in the passing lane of an Interstate when a truck in the center lane cut me off as though he had no idea that I was there. In that case, I was saved by excellent brakes and a bit of margin to the left but as I think about it now, I wonder if he possibly didn't see me -- rather than just being dumb, inattentive or exhausted. And even if he was one of those, was the fact that my car was low, small and dark (black) a factor in the incident?
So are our cars at risk because they are small and low -- especially those that are neutral colors?
02-01-2011, 12:42 PM
#3
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I've been driving Miatas for years, and mostly in dark blue-green colors. They're even smaller and less eye-catching than 997s. I've driven a red 997 Cab and a black w/orange 997 GT3 RS. I also commute by motorcycle. Before getting into sports cars I mostly drove old Camrys and an old Sable. My observation is that the smaller and more "dull" the vehicle, the less noticeable it is. The red, black, and silver Miata I drove for a few weeks was pretty easily seen, as was the red 997 cab. The GT3 can blend in when all someone would see is the front view - mostly just black - but it's more visible than the dark colored Miatas.
I have noticed something I wasn't expecting since I started commuting on the motorcycle. In the cars, it's mostly SUVs and pickups who don't see me. Sure, there's the occasional car, but SUVs and pickups are, generally, much worse about it. In the motorcycle, it's the opposite. The SUVs and pickups often see me - even ones I'm sure won't see me (wouldn't have seen me in the cars). However, cars that would have seen me based on their behavior if I were in the car don't see the motorcycle. It's as though people look for vehicles at about the same height as them, so the taller vehicles see the (taller) motorcycle but miss the low-slung sports cars, while the cars see the sports car but miss the taller, but with a small profile, motorcycle.
My general attitude about this is I drive like I'm invisible. I assume people won't see me and will try to cut me off. I watch for signs that vehicles around me may change lanes, may pull out when they shouldn't, etc. I've been told that I back-seat-drive other peoples' cars!
I do have one other comment:
If he "just didn't see you," when he should have been able to (no concrete barriers, bushes, etc. blocking his line of sight), he was being inattentive. That isn't an either/or. It sounds like you were moving faster than him, not sitting in his blind spot, so he can't use the blind spot as an excuse (he should check multiple times, and make an effort to check in the blind spot, as best he can).
I have noticed something I wasn't expecting since I started commuting on the motorcycle. In the cars, it's mostly SUVs and pickups who don't see me. Sure, there's the occasional car, but SUVs and pickups are, generally, much worse about it. In the motorcycle, it's the opposite. The SUVs and pickups often see me - even ones I'm sure won't see me (wouldn't have seen me in the cars). However, cars that would have seen me based on their behavior if I were in the car don't see the motorcycle. It's as though people look for vehicles at about the same height as them, so the taller vehicles see the (taller) motorcycle but miss the low-slung sports cars, while the cars see the sports car but miss the taller, but with a small profile, motorcycle.
My general attitude about this is I drive like I'm invisible. I assume people won't see me and will try to cut me off. I watch for signs that vehicles around me may change lanes, may pull out when they shouldn't, etc. I've been told that I back-seat-drive other peoples' cars!
I do have one other comment:
If he "just didn't see you," when he should have been able to (no concrete barriers, bushes, etc. blocking his line of sight), he was being inattentive. That isn't an either/or. It sounds like you were moving faster than him, not sitting in his blind spot, so he can't use the blind spot as an excuse (he should check multiple times, and make an effort to check in the blind spot, as best he can).
02-01-2011, 01:20 PM
#4
Poseur
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As stated immediately above, the tendency for many owners today to select something like 'asphalt grey' as a color of choice severely increased your odds of being overlooked. It was one of a few reasons why I elected to get a brighter, more noticeable color. It DOES make a difference. We have a tendency to be able to squeeze through places that normal sized cars cannot. Remember that many drivers are totally oblivious to others around them. While I am constantly scanning and watching for everyone else around me many drivers do not. With that in mind, factor that into your driving.
Yesterday, I was on 101 heading north for a bit and a Calif Highway Patrolman was in the left lane held up by a couple of cars doing just barely 65. The right lane was empty. (I was in the right lane and back a bit, in another car). Eventually the CHP had to pass on the right. When I finally got up to the lead car that had held up the CHP car I noticed the driver working on a drink in her hand, talking with a passenger, and completely oblivious that she had a cop on her tail for some time, and that he had to pass her on the right to get around her. THAT'S what we have to deal with in America with nearly some of the worse drivers in the world. (The worst drivers are Arab (no profiling here, but it's true!) followed by Italians. The worst in the USA--Boston drivers. Nicest--in the Seattle area).
Yesterday, I was on 101 heading north for a bit and a Calif Highway Patrolman was in the left lane held up by a couple of cars doing just barely 65. The right lane was empty. (I was in the right lane and back a bit, in another car). Eventually the CHP had to pass on the right. When I finally got up to the lead car that had held up the CHP car I noticed the driver working on a drink in her hand, talking with a passenger, and completely oblivious that she had a cop on her tail for some time, and that he had to pass her on the right to get around her. THAT'S what we have to deal with in America with nearly some of the worse drivers in the world. (The worst drivers are Arab (no profiling here, but it's true!) followed by Italians. The worst in the USA--Boston drivers. Nicest--in the Seattle area).
02-01-2011, 01:26 PM
#5
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Two words: SPEED YELLOW 
Actually, looks like I'm pretty safe in my silver. What is interesting is that red is not that safe a colour - I think it's because people notice yellow much more than red. Either that or there are too many monied people driving red fezzas at speed with their eyes closed.
I was hit once when riding my bike to work and I was wearing a white and green shirt. Never been touched when my dayglow yellow shirt is on.
Of the two studies identified that actually sought to test the association between vehicle color and crash involvement, one found that silver cars were least likely to be involved in injury crashes (Furness 2003), and the other found that white or yellow cars were least likely to be struck by other drivers who committed infractions (Lardelli-Claret 2002).
I was hit once when riding my bike to work and I was wearing a white and green shirt. Never been touched when my dayglow yellow shirt is on.
02-01-2011, 01:32 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
+1. When I'm in L.A. traffic, I just assume that nobody sees me.
But, now that I'm driving a 997.2 with DRLs, I'm fighting the notion that I'm somehow "more visible."
Distracted drivers are absolutely EVERYWHERE!
But, now that I'm driving a 997.2 with DRLs, I'm fighting the notion that I'm somehow "more visible."
Distracted drivers are absolutely EVERYWHERE!
02-01-2011, 01:43 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
As stated immediately above, the tendency for many owners today to select something like 'asphalt grey' as a color of choice severely increased your odds of being overlooked. It was one of a few reasons why I elected to get a brighter, more noticeable color. It DOES make a difference. We have a tendency to be able to squeeze through places that normal sized cars cannot. Remember that many drivers are totally oblivious to others around them. While I am constantly scanning and watching for everyone else around me many drivers do not. With that in mind, factor that into your driving.
Yesterday, I was on 101 heading north for a bit and a Calif Highway Patrolman was in the left lane held up by a couple of cars doing just barely 65. The right lane was empty. (I was in the right lane and back a bit, in another car). Eventually the CHP had to pass on the right. When I finally got up to the lead car that had held up the CHP car I noticed the driver working on a drink in her hand, talking with a passenger, and completely oblivious that she had a cop on her tail for some time, and that he had to pass her on the right to get around her. THAT'S what we have to deal with in America with nearly some of the worse drivers in the world. (The worst drivers are Arab (no profiling here, but it's true!) followed by Italians. The worst in the USA--Boston drivers. Nicest--in the Seattle area).
Yesterday, I was on 101 heading north for a bit and a Calif Highway Patrolman was in the left lane held up by a couple of cars doing just barely 65. The right lane was empty. (I was in the right lane and back a bit, in another car). Eventually the CHP had to pass on the right. When I finally got up to the lead car that had held up the CHP car I noticed the driver working on a drink in her hand, talking with a passenger, and completely oblivious that she had a cop on her tail for some time, and that he had to pass her on the right to get around her. THAT'S what we have to deal with in America with nearly some of the worse drivers in the world. (The worst drivers are Arab (no profiling here, but it's true!) followed by Italians. The worst in the USA--Boston drivers. Nicest--in the Seattle area).
I spent most of my life in Boston and I currently live in Chicago. The drivers in Chicago are, on average, significantly more aggressive and more oblivious to fundamental traffic laws than the drivers in the northeast.
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02-01-2011, 02:26 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
I've been told my car is extremely visible - I wouldn't know personally but I've seen three other SY cars and spot them easily but maybe that's b/c I have a search image for this color.
I lived in Boston (Charlestown) for 2 years - it was traffic anarchy. I actually felt safer there than in California b/c I never proceeded on the assumption that anyone was going to follow the rules of the road or common etiquette.
You think that you're invisible, or hard to spot in your small car, try riding a bicycle (and I mean 5+ days a week training on a road bike). On the plus side, it's made me hyper aware of what is going on around me when I drive. (And I'm sorry to say this, flame away if you like, but experiences on my bike tell me that older people are the ones that are least aware - or have the worst judgment.)
I lived in Boston (Charlestown) for 2 years - it was traffic anarchy. I actually felt safer there than in California b/c I never proceeded on the assumption that anyone was going to follow the rules of the road or common etiquette.
You think that you're invisible, or hard to spot in your small car, try riding a bicycle (and I mean 5+ days a week training on a road bike). On the plus side, it's made me hyper aware of what is going on around me when I drive. (And I'm sorry to say this, flame away if you like, but experiences on my bike tell me that older people are the ones that are least aware - or have the worst judgment.)
02-01-2011, 03:04 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Yes, low sports cars can be run over by large vehicles. Take a look at this incident in Florida a few days ago. This 458 Italia driver was first accused of being on the wrong lane passing cars, but watch the video carefully. It's quite possible that the 458 was pushed into the other lane by the truck entering the road and making a left turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RNbb...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RNbb...layer_embedded
02-01-2011, 03:08 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
02-01-2011, 03:11 PM
#12
Race Director
[NOTE: A few days ago, I posted this message on another board, 6Soeedonline/997. The comments that I received were interesting. I am reposting this message (with this explanatory note) in hopes of getting still more suggestions and comments. ]
After I mentioned that I had driven from NYC to Florida and back recently, I was asked whether it was safe. I answered that my car was very "competent" and extremely comfortable. I asked why the person (a member of my family) thought that my car would be unsafe. She said that she was worried that large cars (like her SUV) and trucks would not see a car as small as mine.
I have had a bad experience in my previous car, a Cayman S, with a truck at a very dangerous merge on I95 just after the George Washington Bridge. I have always blamed the road design which forces trucks to cut across three lanes of traffic to turn off onto the Thruway while cars merging into the Interstate have to move to the left (the opposite direction) to get past the same exit but, thinking about her question, I wonder if she had a point.
As I think back, I can also recall an incident when I was driving across country when I was in the passing lane of an Interstate when a truck in the center lane cut me off as though he had no idea that I was there. In that case, I was saved by excellent brakes and a bit of margin to the left but as I think about it now, I wonder if he possibly didn't see me -- rather than just being dumb, inattentive or exhausted. And even if he was one of those, was the fact that my car was low, small and dark (black) a factor in the incident?
So are our cars at risk because they are small and low -- especially those that are neutral colors?
After I mentioned that I had driven from NYC to Florida and back recently, I was asked whether it was safe. I answered that my car was very "competent" and extremely comfortable. I asked why the person (a member of my family) thought that my car would be unsafe. She said that she was worried that large cars (like her SUV) and trucks would not see a car as small as mine.
I have had a bad experience in my previous car, a Cayman S, with a truck at a very dangerous merge on I95 just after the George Washington Bridge. I have always blamed the road design which forces trucks to cut across three lanes of traffic to turn off onto the Thruway while cars merging into the Interstate have to move to the left (the opposite direction) to get past the same exit but, thinking about her question, I wonder if she had a point.
As I think back, I can also recall an incident when I was driving across country when I was in the passing lane of an Interstate when a truck in the center lane cut me off as though he had no idea that I was there. In that case, I was saved by excellent brakes and a bit of margin to the left but as I think about it now, I wonder if he possibly didn't see me -- rather than just being dumb, inattentive or exhausted. And even if he was one of those, was the fact that my car was low, small and dark (black) a factor in the incident?
So are our cars at risk because they are small and low -- especially those that are neutral colors?
The biggest problem is people just don't pay attention. I have to dodge/avoid other cars quite often cause -- mainly -- the driver's on the G*dd*mn*d cell phone and will run a stop sign, fail to yield properly, or switch lanes at any time.
(And not just in front of a Porsche. I watched a pickup truck change lanes unexpectedly and for no reason on I-40 just east of Kingman AZ and cut off a AZ state trooper in his cruiser. I saw the cruiser's brake lights come on. And guess what? The officer never even bothered to pull the pick up over.)
Drive defensively.
Sincerely,
Macster.
02-01-2011, 03:31 PM
#13
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
That is precisely the problem. The cops don't enforce those rules. They go after the more lucrative ones. Traffic flow in the USA is backwards. You can make better progress in the right lane than in the left 'high speed, overtaking lane." Yet, no one ever enforces that rule/law. Only in Oregon did I see active enforcement of the left lane only for active passing--but that was some time ago.
02-01-2011, 03:41 PM
#14
Track Day
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I honestly don't think this has nothing to do with our cars. Here in Toronto Canada this happens to me all the times either on my jetta or my 911.
The size of the car is not the problem it's just bad drivers.
When ever I switch lane I always slightly tild my head left or right depending wich direction I am going to see if there is anybody behind me. Down here they don't drive by instinct and using their head they drive like robots. They figure " hey I have my left or right signal going I took a quick look at the rear view mirros and I am fine" and bang they just swap lanes.
I am literally terrified when I pass cars down here because I never know if some moron decides to swap lanes.
I don't want to offend anybody but I am from Italy and in Rome this happens very rarely and I can trust the majority of people.
I drive down the highway at speeds of anywhere from 180kmh to 200+kmh and I am not scared to pass people. At night all I do if there is a slow car in front of me I flick my lights and they move out of the way. Some of them even move when they see me coming up fast from behind and then get back in the fast lane.
Here in Toronto it is really not their fault the problem is that they are just not allowed to REALLY DRIVE cars down here.
I see it with most of my friends they are completly clueless to the dynamics of driving and this is because you have to drive at no more then 120kmh and you will never learn how to properly handle a car.
What I do is always drive in the fast lane in case someone turn on me I have enough time to turn on the emergency lane. In traffic never drive on the center line you will not be able to do anything. And always keep your distances.
I also only drive my 911 when there is no traffic and late at night =)
Driving fast it's safer then driving slow=) It's not speed that kills it's when you are stationary. If you see someone driving like an idiot get him out of your way asap.
Comon here in Canada the speed limit is 100kmh are you kidding me? There are 50 CC scooters then can reach those speeds safely lol.
I hate driving in Toronto it really takes away fromt he pleasure of driving. People look at cars down here like a trend, a piece of clothing to show off. They don't appreciate driving and don't understand it because they are not allowed to. So the car becomes an extension of your house =) Just somethign where you put TV's in it , playstation etc.....
I hardly even listen to music in my car I just enjoy the sound of the engine.
The size of the car is not the problem it's just bad drivers.
When ever I switch lane I always slightly tild my head left or right depending wich direction I am going to see if there is anybody behind me. Down here they don't drive by instinct and using their head they drive like robots. They figure " hey I have my left or right signal going I took a quick look at the rear view mirros and I am fine" and bang they just swap lanes.
I am literally terrified when I pass cars down here because I never know if some moron decides to swap lanes.
I don't want to offend anybody but I am from Italy and in Rome this happens very rarely and I can trust the majority of people.
I drive down the highway at speeds of anywhere from 180kmh to 200+kmh and I am not scared to pass people. At night all I do if there is a slow car in front of me I flick my lights and they move out of the way. Some of them even move when they see me coming up fast from behind and then get back in the fast lane.
Here in Toronto it is really not their fault the problem is that they are just not allowed to REALLY DRIVE cars down here.
I see it with most of my friends they are completly clueless to the dynamics of driving and this is because you have to drive at no more then 120kmh and you will never learn how to properly handle a car.
What I do is always drive in the fast lane in case someone turn on me I have enough time to turn on the emergency lane. In traffic never drive on the center line you will not be able to do anything. And always keep your distances.
I also only drive my 911 when there is no traffic and late at night =)
Driving fast it's safer then driving slow=) It's not speed that kills it's when you are stationary. If you see someone driving like an idiot get him out of your way asap.
Comon here in Canada the speed limit is 100kmh are you kidding me? There are 50 CC scooters then can reach those speeds safely lol.
I hate driving in Toronto it really takes away fromt he pleasure of driving. People look at cars down here like a trend, a piece of clothing to show off. They don't appreciate driving and don't understand it because they are not allowed to. So the car becomes an extension of your house =) Just somethign where you put TV's in it , playstation etc.....
I hardly even listen to music in my car I just enjoy the sound of the engine.
02-01-2011, 04:06 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
A lexus with rear sensors backed onto my stationary 997.2 last year at less than 5 miles an hour in a oarking lot. He claimed that he could not see my car due to the GT silver color and flat contour of the front. Luckily just a little paint damage to the bumper and scratch on the wheels. No damage to the body. Wheel replaced (as I was worried about clear-coat coming off on a repair job) and the bumper partially resprayed and then entire bumper clear-coated again to perfection. No dent on the bumper so no body work needed even to the bumper. However vigilant we are, one cannot avoid accidents with all the distracted drivers surrounding you and their toys (cellphones, make-up, electric razors).