blake

I spent a few hours today reading EVERY thread about 997 DMEs and corresponding ignitions across the 6 ranges. The review left me tired, quite thirsty, and unsatisfied. In short, Ranges 1-3 are normal (good), and Ranges 4-6 indicate engine stress (bad).

The CPO car that I am looking to buy has 27 months left under warranty and 41,000 miles on the odometer. It posted the following DME numbers:

Range 1: 21,000 (rounded)
Range 2: 4,000 (rounded)
Range 3: 2,000 (rounded)
Range 4: 60 (rounded)
Range 5: 0
Range 6: 0

I think this car can be had for a very good price, though it is crossing over that "comfort zone" line...

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
-Blake

996toomey

Probably ok. I would look at what hour on the clock the range 4 over revs occurred and how many hours are on it now. Meaning was this in the past or recent.

blake

Good advice - and that is what I asked for when I left the dealership this evening. The car was definitely driven hard and put away wet, BUT the syncros felt good and the engined pulled well. I was surprised at the resiliency of the engine. It sounded strong.

I did want to post something that I found on another P-Car forum about DMEs. It is the best explanation that I have heard to date, but it still leaves me confused about Range 4 implications...

Ranges 1-3 are just 200 RPM's apart in a spread for each range just for mainly info on how you are bumping the rev limiter. Ranges 1-3 are common for just winding up to the rev limiter at 7200 , inertia will generate up to range 3 at this time. This will depend on your driving.

Range 4 is 500 rpm and encompasses two different types of engines, ones that red line at 8200 and those that shouldn't. Basically all the 987 and 997 other than the X51 or GT3 that red line at 7200. This range shows a ID on which engine or mod is in the car between the two.

Range 5 is considered the gray or warranty void area for both engines in question and is generally not good as far as Porsche is concerned.

Range 6 Is a void of warranty and encompasses the 10200 rev limit. The 10200 is the point that all the 987 and 997 engines will succumb to valve float. The 10200 has a separate minimum classification in the DME. After this range is tripped it will record ANY rev above it in the max Rev limit. This is read out in the VAL or Vehicle analysis report. Unfortunately most Dealers do not understand it either.

I should also mention that the 996 and 986 had a range 1 and 2 with the same 10200 max.


Best,
Scott Slauson
PCA Technical Expert

-Blake

911SLOW

Mr. Slauson mixed it up a little after the 3rd range for the 997. These boys work long hours : )
60 on range 4 is nothing if cars checks PPI ok, just buy it.

jhbrennan

You say it's a CPO car - are you buying from a dealer who is providing the CPO warranty paperwork? If so, just make sure you get the printed DME readout included in the CPO paperwork showing the overrevs occurred prior to your purchase. With the CPO I wouldn't worry.

No HTwo O

That car's been beat on. I'd never buy a Porsche that has any range 3 over revs, let alone +21,000 in range #1. Why buy "this car" when there are soooooo many others that have been better cared (and driven) for?

Someday you will come to sell this car, and the next buyer may also be a smart shopper and do a DME report, and see those crazy high numbers. That will effect the selling/buying process for sure, again.

Has this car been tracked?

Edgy01

Keep in mind that redline on a non-X51 997 is 7300, not 7200.

The only one I don't care for are the high numbers of range 4s. The others are nothing.

No HTwo O

Really?

jhbrennan

Yes - engine is made for high revs and rev limiter protects from going too high. If it's a CPO car then Porsche doesn't have a problem with these range readouts. 21,000 range 1 ignitions is about slighly less than 1 minute and they probably didn't all happen at one time. The engine probably has a little over 1,000 hours. Have you never hit the rev limiter?

No HTwo O

Yes, in the 987S (they also have 6 ranges) about 500 times in Range #1 and about 50 times in #2. Never above #2. In the 993TT maybe 2-3 times on the way up, never downshifting.

The OP's car sounds like it's been beat on and/or tracked (as we know, not necessarily a bad thing when properly maintained). But given the choice, why buy this car with those DME numbers when there are so many better choices? If "price" is the answer.....the cost of ownership may be higher do to the abuse.

pissedpuppy

I recently bought a car '09 C2S - sight unseen. regarding the DME dump, their quotes directly

"When we look at DME, our concern is anything in range 4 on up."

my car was still under warranty, as well as CPOd thru Nov 2014

blake

Thanks guys for the comments. It is actually a Cabriolet, and I doubt it has been tracked. The underbody, wheel-wells and brakes don't show that type of wear (no rubber worms, tire marks, etc). The car is fresh off lease and was owned by a president of some company in West Chester County, NY (told to me by dealer). I don't think it has been washed since the dealer bought it at auction!

I am a perfectionist when it comes to the finer things, and Porsches are no exception. However, I am drawn to this car for several reasons: 1) price is below market, and the DME result is strengthening my case with the dealer!, 2) 27 months of CPO remaining, 3) engine sounds strong, and gear shift felt tight, and 4) I expect to put 30-40K on this car in two years, then get rid of it. This will be my first Porsche DD.

I posted on Rennlist because I still view "Range 4" as a gray area after 6 hours of reading all of the search content over the weekend (both here and on the other PCar forums).

Again - thanks guys. I am a huge fan of Rennlist and have been on this website for over a decade - mostly reading not posting! Finally got a user name in '02 after 5 years!

-B

No HTwo O

Blake, why do you have your beautiful Carrara White GT3 parked on 2x12's?

blake

Bendpak scissor lift is under it! Need the height for clearance...

blake

the search continues... I have looked at several more CPOd Cabs, and several have caught my eye.... One's DME readout is excellent amd the other's is borderline...

Car #2:
Range 1: 415
Range 2: 23
Range 3: 0
Range 4: 0
Range 5: 0
Range 6: 0

This car is listed $7k above the sticker of the next car....

Car #3:
Range 1: 16830
Range 2: 1712
Range 3: 89
Range 4: 4
Range 5: 1
Range 6: 0


I am still confused as to a "1" at Range 5 - does this indicate a money shift that was caught prior to fully engaging the clutch?

Thanks!
-Blake