GT3 Control Arms
12-10-2010, 02:19 AM
#16
GT3 player par excellence
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the rear you really only need toe links.
if you must burn more money to get a track set up, i get motons.
then you are done.
upper control arm, dog bone is nice, but not needed until you DE 30+ day or race the damn car. in fact, i wouldn't do it again even on my race car.
coming from 964, your car is way way way more stable than any 964 you have driven. so dont worry.
i dont think you will need -3 camber up front for a dual purpose car. with that camber, you will never drive it on street. now if you want a track car, then let me know. i can help empty your bank account. i got 15k on my suspension ;-) and that was the cheap route.
if you must burn more money to get a track set up, i get motons.
then you are done.
upper control arm, dog bone is nice, but not needed until you DE 30+ day or race the damn car. in fact, i wouldn't do it again even on my race car.
coming from 964, your car is way way way more stable than any 964 you have driven. so dont worry.
i dont think you will need -3 camber up front for a dual purpose car. with that camber, you will never drive it on street. now if you want a track car, then let me know. i can help empty your bank account. i got 15k on my suspension ;-) and that was the cheap route.
12-10-2010, 03:26 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
the rear you really only need toe links.
if you must burn more money to get a track set up, i get motons.
then you are done.
upper control arm, dog bone is nice, but not needed until you DE 30+ day or race the damn car. in fact, i wouldn't do it again even on my race car.
coming from 964, your car is way way way more stable than any 964 you have driven. so dont worry.
i dont think you will need -3 camber up front for a dual purpose car. with that camber, you will never drive it on street. now if you want a track car, then let me know. i can help empty your bank account. i got 15k on my suspension ;-) and that was the cheap route.
if you must burn more money to get a track set up, i get motons.
then you are done.
upper control arm, dog bone is nice, but not needed until you DE 30+ day or race the damn car. in fact, i wouldn't do it again even on my race car.
coming from 964, your car is way way way more stable than any 964 you have driven. so dont worry.
i dont think you will need -3 camber up front for a dual purpose car. with that camber, you will never drive it on street. now if you want a track car, then let me know. i can help empty your bank account. i got 15k on my suspension ;-) and that was the cheap route.
I sort of agree it is not needed, for a dual purpose car with mostly stock rear axle available camber will be determined by alignment limits on rear axle - on my car max negative camber there keeping toe at 0.10 was -1.9 degrees. tarett toe links may help to get a bit more but overall -2 degrees in rear and -2.5 degrees on front axle (given gt3 LCAs are there) should do the trick for r888 style r-comps.
still, when i went from -2.4f -1.9r to -3f -2.5r camber car felt much better planted in turns. I like it this way and it runs fine on street as well.
typical price of dogbones set is about of $1K, if rear LCAs get replaced IMHO it makes sense to replace dogbones as well. rear fork arms are not critically important and may be ignored. but I would say amount of 'play' in upper mounts is more than from dogbones, so, it all kinda interconnected and if one wants to get rid on dynamic toe/camber changes in turns - it all should to be done, if budget allows.
12-11-2010, 12:10 AM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Tom,
The front will need the GT3 LCA's with shims and your thoughts to stay away from the Monoballs is a smart path for a dual use car (keep all the bushing rubber even the caster bushing). The rear will depend on the tire width and ride height of the car as to what you will get for camber (-2.5 is possible). The Upper Control arms will only be a means for you to drain your wallet... Unless you are racing DON'T waste your money on the Moton's either, Maybe you want too spend the time dialing them in and again for dual usage is it really worth it...
By a good set of JRZ's from Tarret (Spec996 set up is a good price) or some other set up that suits your budget (even the X74 kit would be nice... lowers the car, stiffens it up (more then PSS9/10's) and still is streatable), get the LCA's from them as well (I got my set from them), place adjustable sway bars in, you can still run the oem stock toe link and get a good setup... any dynamic suspension changes that you will see will not slow your lap times down enough to justify the ROI.
I was running 17's (225 / f & 255 /r) on the car for my race tire (last season & part of this season) and had the GT3 LCA's front with -2 deg camber with 04 GT3 caster & Toe settings, rear was -2.5 deg camber & 04 caster/toe settings. With MPSC's (over 45 HC's) at the Geln this year I coul run low 2:13's (I had the car setup for dual track/street use)
even a tick lower once and a while.
When I went to wider 18's (245 / f & 285 / r ) on hoosiers this summer: added more camber in the front to -2.7 deg , left the rear at -2.5 (same caster/toe settings) took 3.5 seconds of my times. Tire temps were good across the tires and handling was nice.
The R888's are a tire that will not like a lot of heat and should be treated to a softer setup... JMO
The front will need the GT3 LCA's with shims and your thoughts to stay away from the Monoballs is a smart path for a dual use car (keep all the bushing rubber even the caster bushing). The rear will depend on the tire width and ride height of the car as to what you will get for camber (-2.5 is possible). The Upper Control arms will only be a means for you to drain your wallet... Unless you are racing DON'T waste your money on the Moton's either, Maybe you want too spend the time dialing them in and again for dual usage is it really worth it...
By a good set of JRZ's from Tarret (Spec996 set up is a good price) or some other set up that suits your budget (even the X74 kit would be nice... lowers the car, stiffens it up (more then PSS9/10's) and still is streatable), get the LCA's from them as well (I got my set from them), place adjustable sway bars in, you can still run the oem stock toe link and get a good setup... any dynamic suspension changes that you will see will not slow your lap times down enough to justify the ROI.
I was running 17's (225 / f & 255 /r) on the car for my race tire (last season & part of this season) and had the GT3 LCA's front with -2 deg camber with 04 GT3 caster & Toe settings, rear was -2.5 deg camber & 04 caster/toe settings. With MPSC's (over 45 HC's) at the Geln this year I coul run low 2:13's (I had the car setup for dual track/street use)
even a tick lower once and a while.
When I went to wider 18's (245 / f & 285 / r ) on hoosiers this summer: added more camber in the front to -2.7 deg , left the rear at -2.5 (same caster/toe settings) took 3.5 seconds of my times. Tire temps were good across the tires and handling was nice.
The R888's are a tire that will not like a lot of heat and should be treated to a softer setup... JMO
Last edited by CWhaley; 12-11-2010 at 09:04 AM. Reason: added detail
12-11-2010, 02:44 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
plus as I was told - stock rear droplinks may bend under extreme pressure on a track.
12-11-2010, 06:11 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Yep he can (OEM TOE LINK) ... That is what I run with out any trouble... also you do not need CUSTOM F/R drop links... just adjustable ones. (again what I have). Don't go and confuse the issue... Unless you are a pro level drive many of the "HOT TICKET" items are just BLING... Learn to drive what you have to the best of your abilities.
12-11-2010, 06:12 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hey Chris, thanks for the feedback and for the offer to help. Once we get past Christmas I'm going to settle on a set-up, get the body parts painted and then pray for good weather. Schattenbaum PCA usually runs their first DE of the season at T-bolt in March.
Utkipol, thanks for keeping track of all the advice and chiming in.
Take care guys.
Utkipol, thanks for keeping track of all the advice and chiming in.
Take care guys.
12-12-2010, 02:43 AM
#26
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he will not be able to get -3 camber if he will not replace real LCAs.
===> yes, for front he needs GT3 LCA, but no rear. i can give you -3 on the back with standard arms. not every suspension guy is good. there are no more than 30 ppl in USA who can dial it right. in fact, i ran -2.7 up front on cayman s when no one was able to get it without LCA. its the tech's skills.
typical price of dogbones set is about of $1K, if rear LCAs get replaced IMHO it makes sense to replace dogbones as well.
===> not so. 996 cup cars all have split rear LCA, but standard dog bone as regular street car, that goes with 997 as well.
rear fork arms are not critically important and may be ignored. but I would say amount of 'play' in upper mounts is more than from dogbones, so, it all kinda interconnected and if one wants to get rid on dynamic toe/camber changes in turns - it all should to be done, if budget allows.
===> ideally everything needs to be done. but very few ppl can produce measurable results with these mods. the fastest way to gain speed is TIRES. best bang for the bux. or you can dump 10k on suspension like my stripper ;-)
===> yes, for front he needs GT3 LCA, but no rear. i can give you -3 on the back with standard arms. not every suspension guy is good. there are no more than 30 ppl in USA who can dial it right. in fact, i ran -2.7 up front on cayman s when no one was able to get it without LCA. its the tech's skills.
typical price of dogbones set is about of $1K, if rear LCAs get replaced IMHO it makes sense to replace dogbones as well.
===> not so. 996 cup cars all have split rear LCA, but standard dog bone as regular street car, that goes with 997 as well.
rear fork arms are not critically important and may be ignored. but I would say amount of 'play' in upper mounts is more than from dogbones, so, it all kinda interconnected and if one wants to get rid on dynamic toe/camber changes in turns - it all should to be done, if budget allows.
===> ideally everything needs to be done. but very few ppl can produce measurable results with these mods. the fastest way to gain speed is TIRES. best bang for the bux. or you can dump 10k on suspension like my stripper ;-)
12-12-2010, 02:46 AM
#27
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Yep he can (OEM TOE LINK) ... That is what I run with out any trouble... also you do not need CUSTOM F/R drop links... just adjustable ones. (again what I have). Don't go and confuse the issue... Unless you are a pro level drive many of the "HOT TICKET" items are just BLING... Learn to drive what you have to the best of your abilities.
and if the tech has real patience, you dont even need adj drop links. just hard work ;-), but he's my friend, so i dont want him spend 20 hours to corner balance my war without preload using oem links.
12-12-2010, 02:49 AM
#28
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12-12-2010, 09:50 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
I agree with not running the R888's. Borrowed a set for a test and hated them so much I would not even use them for rain tires. The RA1's are a really go choice... never used the NT-01... but have heard good things about them.
12-12-2010, 07:19 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
The R888's do get greasy. After reviewing my track notebook I see that I bitched all season about the R888's. Time for something different and the RA1's, V710's or Nittos deserve a shot. I do trailer but it would be nice not to trailer for the local 2 day events. Thanks.