Spiffyjiff

as i posted elsewhere on here, i am contemplating race seats/harnesses for next season. i have heard many times that if using harnesses, it's imperative to have a roll bar because your head and neck have little wiggle room to move sideways/out of the way in case of a roof collapse. yet i also see that many others opt just for harness bars.

so as to help me eliminate at least one of my dilemmas - choosing betw a harness bar (e.g. brey/krause) or roll bar (e.g. DAS sport, GMG) - can you all chime in on this issue?

i should note that altho i'm not exactly a track junkie or a club racer, i plan to continue doing 5-10 events a year and will most likely be moving up to an advanced run group next season.

AllanJ

<bleep> happens at the track, especially when you start pushing it. Buy a roll bar and forget the simple harness bar thing.

Nugget

I think harness bars are unsafe for exactly the reason you mention.

Don't get harnesses unless you're going to get a full roll bar. Also don't get harnesses unless you're going to use a HANS or some other equivalent form of head and neck restraint. It's all or nothing.

You may find that just switching to the bucket seats (if you're running sport or adaptive sport now) will get you 80% of the way there without the expense and commitment of roll bar and hans. The bucket seats provide pretty decent lateral support even with just the three point lap and shoulder belt. It's a reasonable step 1, in my view, and there's no downside if you want to go full harnesses later on down the road when you've gotten to the advanced run group.

RonCT

I went through a similar process and ended up with OEM roll bar, OEM Sport Bucket Seats (for the fold-forward feature to access the back and for the thorax airbags), and Schroth Hans belts. BK mounting bits / fire extinguisher. The package looks "factory" and has performed very nicely. While Porsche isn't importing the roll bars any longer, they are pretty easy to find (here at the forum, PCA, etc.).

bella1

Agree with everyone else. DAS roll bar at a minimum and new six point harness bolted to the floor with proper eye bolts. Race Seats with Halo. HANS a must. I remain surprised that PCA would not require a HANS with the six point harness. Just look at the video that comes with the HANS showing a crash test dummy in a six point harness without head and neck restraint and you will become a believer.

My attached video shows what can happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GmI83zn610

This incident occurred at the Zone 2 DE VIR in March 2010. I am just driving along when I hit a pool of antifreeze dropped by a BMW at the number 5 brake marker beofre Turn 1. After my car stops, you can see the BMW already in the tire wall. In 2010, I have done five Club Races and 5 DEs with only this accident at a DE. And that Halo seat saved my neck from that side impact.

Mike in CA

I'll add my $.02. I have a BK harness bar and a Schroth 6 pt harness in my car, in conjunction with sport buckets. I autocross exclusively and the belts definitely help locate me in the seat. Not that it's impossible or has never happened, but in 35 years of autocrossing I've never seen anyone roll a car, so I feel reasonably safe with this setup.

Having said that, if I were tracking the car I'd have a roll bar for all of the reasons mentioned above. The only drawback is that with a roll bar you have pretty much given up on any significant use of your back seat, while the harness bar can be removed easily for a trip, etc. by taking out just four bolts. Still, for a track car that's a reasonable trade-off for a broken neck.

Coochas

Certainly a roll bar is the safer thing to do; however, while accidents DO happen at the track rollovers make up only a small percentage. If you and your car are committed to continuing tracking, you should spend your money on safety gear. Do the roll bar, harnesses, and HANS.
If you are not ready to buy a HANS, consider getting 2" shoulder belts which are more HANS friendly. I had my original 3" belts with my HANS and they drove me nuts until I switched them out to 2."

MUSSBERGER

Show off

AllanJ

Watch the rules for what type of events you do. In my area if you tried to do Solo 1 with 2" shoulder belts and no HANS then you wouldn't be allowed on the track. 3" mandatory if no HANS.

Check the rules for your area.

fwiw, I have the DefNder and it works well with 3" belts.

Cheers,

f4 plt

My .o2 cents worth ( granted basically a repeat of the good advice already given) I have a harness bar and harnesses in my Cayman with factory sport bucket seats. This is a street and autocross car. (harnesses and seats to protect a somewhat fragile lower back). In my track car Recaro pole position seats and aroll var system with harnesses. I also totally echo the support for a Hans device and full face helmet for the track. Surprises happen quick and the human body ( especially the neck) is fragile. You noticed I have quality supporting seats in both cars. They keep the spine aligned again in case of an incident, Bottom line don't skimp it's the only body you have.

As an aside I was surprised how short a time it takes to get use to the Hans device and it does not limit necessary head movement in the car.

zanwar

If you're tracking, install a roll bar rather than a harness bar. You can always buy another car, but you can't buy another spine. If you're planning to upgrade to sport bucket seats, consider the microfiber. The leather seats don't come with Alcantara inlays.

Spiffyjiff

yep, you all are confirming what i am already leaning toward - a roll bar. plus, excellent case for hans so you've sold me there too.

NUGGET brings up a good alternative tho - opting for just track specific seats might just get me most of the way there. (only downside to that is paying "double labor" to have seats removed/installed again if i decide later to go with a bar/hans.)

AllanJ

You can install the seats yourself. No big deal.

Spiffyjiff

maybe...still debating on whether i should try it. is there another DIY thread somewhere with pics/steps besides carrera mike's? (no offense - mike's is really good, but it's on a 996 - just would like to see one on a 997 since i know the interiors changed significantly)

zanwar

I have my seats installed by the dealer at the start of the track season. It's one hour of labour per side. The sport bucket seats contain airbags and a weight sensor so I'd play safe and have a Porsche tech perform the installation, at least the first time. Something needs to be changed in the computer to enable everything to work together.